2 LG Clone, 4 UXL-18 (Pi-18).......... - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 519 Old 01-31-2012, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

Are there under spider/gap vents at all? Can't quite tell from the pics.

Not sure about that, but I didn't think so....it is off to Indiana now so I can't look.
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post #122 of 519 Old 01-31-2012, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Got a reply from Sanway today, must be done with the celebrating....

Quote:


Dear Greg,

Sorry for the delay response this time, as we just came back office today.

Please ask your engineer to test the 220V points' voltage for your burned FP14000 as attached. If it is 110V voltage( as i sent the FP14000 with 110V version )?

I will reply you fastly in the future, so that we could solve the issue quickly, please don't worry!

Thank you,
Johnson

And attached image:
LL
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post #123 of 519 Old 01-31-2012, 10:28 AM
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Husker - I browsed thru this thread and did not see anything related to 220V. Is the FP14K that you have (the one that is broken) the 220V version or 120V ? If 220V, did you plug it into a 220/240V circuit when it fried ?

Thought I would ask, since I have a 220V FP14K from Sanway, and it is working well.

Garric
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post #124 of 519 Old 01-31-2012, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garric33 View Post

Husker - I browsed thru this thread and did not see anything related to 220V. Is the FP14K that you have (the one that is broken) the 220V version or 120V ? If 220V, did you plug it into a 220/240V circuit when it fried ?

Thought I would ask, since I have a 220V FP14K from Sanway, and it is working well.

Garric

I have the 120V. I'm wondering if they only swapped the plug and didn't do some needed swapping of internals for the V change?

Haven't pulled the cover yet...at work.

I think I can find some local electronics shops...
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post #125 of 519 Old 01-31-2012, 02:45 PM
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Did you send your sub to Ricci? I didn't know he was in Indiana.

I thought Ricci was further south like Kentucky or something.
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post #126 of 519 Old 01-31-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Did you send your sub to Ricci? I didn't know he was in Indiana.

I thought Ricci was further south like Kentucky or something.


His mailing address is across the river from Louisville in Indiana....so you are right...(Louisville is on the river...he is probably considered in Louisville Metro Area).

The UXL-18 shipped this AM (and my other shipped back to Mark in Canada-got held up by paperwork but has been resolved....border crossings). I'm hopeful the numbers Ricci gets will be solid....and that the driver makes it back alive to me.
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post #127 of 519 Old 01-31-2012, 03:47 PM
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AAhhhh Makes sense now. I lived in Indy for 18 years so I wondered.
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post #128 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

AAhhhh Makes sense now. I lived in Indy for 18 years so I wondered.

Fedex is comprised of incompetence. I almost want to stop this diy adventure. Now they lost some commercial invoice so the broken driver can go to Canada. It is still in a warehouse in the midwest.

I'm about done with it all.
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post #129 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Fedex is comprised of incompetence. I almost want to stop this diy adventure. Now they lost some commercial invoice so the broken driver can go to Canada. It is still in a warehouse in the midwest.

I'm about done with it all.

NOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're giving up way too easily!

I hope you don't give up as I'm becoming more and more interested in this driver over the 2242H. I'm hoping to be able to make my final decision off of your input!

I'm sorry about all the crap you're having to go through with all this Greg.

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post #130 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post


NOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're giving up way too easily!

I hope you don't give up as I'm becoming more and more interested in this driver over the 2242H. I'm hoping to be able to make my final decision off of your input!

I'm sorry about all the crap you're having to go through with all this Greg.

At least the one going to Josh is on the way. I forgot they send me a notice of shipping for the return label as well as the outgoing label for Josh. I though I was getting the driver delivered back to me instead of Josh for a while today. I would have had to buy a boxing bag if that happened. Time to go work out and take the LG clone to the electronics store...
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post #131 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Time to go work out and take the LG clone to the electronics store...

Keep us posted bro. I just ordered mine last night, got my fingers crossed.
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post #132 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 12:53 PM
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Eric, if you need help let me know. I have some tools if you need me.
Nick
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post #133 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by datranz View Post

Eric, if you need help let me know. I have some tools if you need me.
Nick

Thanks man! Im gonna start my own build (assemble actually) thread. I figure since so many of the guys here helped me with this, they'd like to see the finished product.
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post #134 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Fedex is comprised of incompetence. I almost want to stop this diy adventure. Now they lost some commercial invoice so the broken driver can go to Canada. It is still in a warehouse in the midwest.

I'm about done with it all.

Wow. That ...really, really sucks. Don't give up though. You've come this far.

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post #135 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 02:25 PM
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I think it's gonna be epic. You gotta weather the storm to get to the rainbow, and it's been raining on you a lot.
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post #136 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

I think it's gonna be epic. You gotta weather the storm to get to the rainbow, and it's been raining on you a lot.

Haha thanks for the confidence booster.....

Should know by friday what is wrong with the amp....technician thinks may be just a wiring snafu from the 220 vs 120 switch......
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post #137 of 519 Old 02-01-2012, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Fedex is comprised of incompetence. I almost want to stop this diy adventure. Now they lost some commercial invoice so the broken driver can go to Canada. It is still in a warehouse in the midwest.

I'm about done with it all.

DIY is totally worth it! Not only you get a better end product, I find it's a lot more fun doing things yourself Where is the fun if everybody just bought everything already finished?
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post #138 of 519 Old 02-03-2012, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Got the call from the electronics shop today. They said the 8A fuse in the picture Johnson sent me isn't adequate for startup process-the amp needs a 10A fuse.

Obviously if all of yours have worked then it has been adequate, but not mine.

So for replacement of that and a few relays, etc, it is going to be ~ 120 USD (deposit and parts/labor).

I just told them to fix it and emailed Sanway. I don't want to act as a middleman waiting for parts and handing them over, I'd rather just get it fixed and done with for now. I'm still ahead even with now spending ~$1k USD, right?

Maybe Johnson will give me a discount on my second FP14000.

Also, sounds like Josh is starting to compile numbers on the UXL-18.
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post #139 of 519 Old 02-03-2012, 10:24 AM
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Greg,

Here is the basic parameters I got off of your UXL-18. I'm going to run it free-air a little and then load it in my 4 cube sealed box and get a FR on it. After that I will run the parameters again.



Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,153 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 3.1726 ohms
Fs = 20.6997 Hz
Zmax = 90.1806 ohms
Qes = 0.3173
Qms = 8.7021
Qts = 0.3061
Le = 3.9835 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 387.0028 mm ( 15.2363 in )
Sd =117629.9974 mm^2(182.3269 in^2)
Vas = 294.6699 L ( 10.4062 ft^3)
BL = 22.6453 N/A
Mms = 394.3475 g
Cms = 149.9115 uM/N
Kms = 6670.6021 N/M
Rms = 5.8938 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.7739 %
Sensitivity= 90.9050 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 94.9217 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 19.699E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 727.482E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 50.439E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 710.519E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------


I noticed that this driver has a very low spot in the surround where it looks like the cone is warped a little and pulling it down. My girlfriend actually spotted it from about 6ft away without me even mentioning it. I don't know how much that will affect it's performance. I will try to post some pics of that and more impressions later. The packaging seems solid and should take care of all of the shipping damage unless they start dropping them off of the back of the truck.
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post #140 of 519 Old 02-03-2012, 12:06 PM
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Just on the amp alone you're ahead about $4K or more At least from the prices I have seen.
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post #141 of 519 Old 02-03-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Greg,

Here is the basic parameters I got off of your UXL-18. I'm going to run it free-air a little and then load it in my 4 cube sealed box and get a FR on it. After that I will run the parameters again.



Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,153 pts
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 3.1726 ohms
Fs = 20.6997 Hz
Zmax = 90.1806 ohms
Qes = 0.3173
Qms = 8.7021
Qts = 0.3061
Le = 3.9835 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 387.0028 mm ( 15.2363 in )
Sd =117629.9974 mm^2(182.3269 in^2)
Vas = 294.6699 L ( 10.4062 ft^3)
BL = 22.6453 N/A
Mms = 394.3475 g
Cms = 149.9115 uM/N
Kms = 6670.6021 N/M
Rms = 5.8938 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.7739 %
Sensitivity= 90.9050 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 94.9217 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 19.699E-03 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 727.482E-03 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 50.439E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm = 710.519E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm
;------------------------------------------------------------------
.

Hi Josh,

I recall from a post you made of the Fi drivers that you might be using the load of nickles for mass... I'd suggest grabbing some silly putty or similar at the store. The containers are pretty accurate on their weight and it won't bounce on the cone with the bigger woofers. Ultimately though, the best test is to correlate a simple free air impedance curve with one taken in a known volume, sealed box and correlate with the near field in the sealed box. It will be interesting to see what you find.

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post #142 of 519 Old 02-03-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Hi Josh,

I recall from a post you made of the Fi drivers that you might be using the load of nickles for mass... I'd suggest grabbing some silly putty or similar at the store. The containers are pretty accurate on their weight and it won't bounce on the cone with the bigger woofers. Ultimately though, the best test is to correlate a simple free air impedance curve with one taken in a known volume, sealed box and correlate with the near field in the sealed box. It will be interesting to see what you find.

Mark,

I use magnets attached to each other through the cone to add mass. 54 of them at 6 grams each for the big woofs. I usually use LIMP for my parameter and impedance tests but the last couple I have used a WT2 due to ease of use. However it seems to give some strange results sometimes with the big dogs (MMS,CMS). Some of these drives are 500g mms and the power level used is tiny. With LIMP I can use a couple of volts drive which seems to come in closer to the MFG specs. It's a lot more tedious to set-up though. I will have a go at it with the LIMP set-up this weekend after breaking in the drive a little more.
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post #143 of 519 Old 02-04-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Enclosure questions:

Due to the weight and placement options, I think I've finally settled on single cabs instead of dual opposed. I think I'm going to build some cabs instead of messing with widening the Dual MFW cabs.

So...questions for those that have dealt with heavier drivers...

Assuming 4 cabinets for 4 UXL-18s......(cabinets need to also be able to throw a LMS5400 U in them, in case I can't get another pair of UXL-18s)

What grade of Baltic Birch/# of ply/void free?

Double or triple baffle (flush-mounting preferred)? Weight of the driver matter?

Hurricane Nuts inset, or screw in the drivers?

For magnetically attached grills, DIY or find a cab maker to do a few sets?

Preferred size to work with either driver?
(since I'm not a pro, walk me through how inductance numbers from Ricci with the UXL-18 would change the size?)

I'll be putting a Speakon plug on the rear of the unit to hook up to the clone amp or any other pro amp.


Thanks for the suggestions in advance guys.

EDIT: What kind of free downloadable sketchup programs work the best for this once you get a dimension idea, etc?
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post #144 of 519 Old 02-04-2012, 10:31 AM
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13ply Birch is probably the nicest if you can source it by you...

I built all my boxes for the LMS with a Double Baffle, but they were counter sunk, so the driver is only mounted to 1 sheet of ply, and have never had any issues with it...

If your concerned, just glue some blocks of ply on the back of the mounting holes for added screw depth reinforcement. I used the screws that came with the LMS's, which are allen head wood scrwe variety... they work fine...
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post #145 of 519 Old 02-04-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Enclosure questions:

Due to the weight and placement options, I think I've finally settled on single cabs instead of dual opposed. I think I'm going to build some cabs instead of messing with widening the Dual MFW cabs.

So...questions for those that have dealt with heavier drivers...

Assuming 4 cabinets for 4 UXL-18s......(cabinets need to also be able to throw a LMS5400 U in them, in case I can't get another pair of UXL-18s)

What grade of Baltic Birch/# of ply/void free?

Double or triple baffle (flush-mounting preferred)? Weight of the driver matter?

Hurricane Nuts inset, or screw in the drivers?

For magnetically attached grills, DIY or find a cab maker to do a few sets?

Preferred size to work with either driver?
(since I'm not a pro, walk me through how inductance numbers from Ricci with the UXL-18 would change the size?)

I'll be putting a Speakon plug on the rear of the unit to hook up to the clone amp or any other pro amp.


Thanks for the suggestions in advance guys.

EDIT: What kind of free downloadable sketchup programs work the best for this once you get a dimension idea, etc?


My LMS is mounted in a 6.1^ft3 sealed box with a 24X24 single layer of 3/4' MDF for the front baffle. The front baffle has little surface wood unsupported by the sides, top and bottom, or bracing inside the box. The front baffle is stable except at extreme SPL levels when you can finger-sense a slight vibration. Might be the entire box moving! My box and driver weigh 145Lb.
I drilled the basket bolt holes out to 1/4" and used hurricane nuts carefully glued to the underside of the front baffle. I say carefully because you don't want any glue getting on the threaded portion of the hurricane nut. I figure (8) 1/4" inch bolts ends up carrying about 9 pounds of an LMS per bolt. An LMS is about 76Lb.
I don't have a grill cover. I prefer that listeners ask why the cone moves so much. It's important though that the driver is far enough out of the way so someone careless doesn't accidentally put the tip of his/her shoe or a vacuum cleaner through the cone.
I did NOT use the rubber gasket that came with the driver, it was too loose and interfered with a good seal after the bolts were tightened. I was able to get a good seal with no gasket.
It's important to have all edges, braces, and pin holes sealed and glued. System wiring should be attached firmly. They WILL work loose over time if not.
I'm not sure what you're asking about Ricci and the inductance.
Run the UXL-18 through WinISD and choose which size box best suits your scenario. Most drivers have a "best case" size that produces your desired response curve and cone X-max etc.
A speakon connector plug is good.
Enjoy, report back.
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post #146 of 519 Old 02-05-2012, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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6 cubes? What are you using for power?

I'm hoping to keep these to 3 cubes or less...
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post #147 of 519 Old 02-06-2012, 01:53 PM
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Couple of comments on the driver.

I had noticed that the surround and/or cone on the UXL-18 that Greg sent was much lower on one side as soon as I opened the shipping box. I tried to take some pics with my cell-phone. The picture quality is really bad but perhaps you can see the issue. It is very obvious when actually staring at the driver. Greg had noticed it as well. It is on the lower left of the driver at about 8 o'clock.


Attachment 236408


At first I thought that perhaps the frame was warped but it is straight, which is good. I believe that the issue might be caused by the cone being out of round which pulls the surround down in one area. You can tell the cone is a little off by looking under the frame where that area of the cone and surround joint is much lower than the rest. I was worried that this might cause the coil to be offset and rub or rock but it does not. Also I worried that high excursion might be an issue with the surround the way it is. I had a chance to free-air it yesterday and luckily it seems to be fine. I ran it up to about 3" peak to peak and the driver suspension seemed to have the assembly under control and still centered. Mark mentioned the Xmech as 45mm. (Greg...It might perhaps cause a little extra even order harmonic distortion with the cone and surround the way it is but other than looking odd cosmetically the driver seems ready for action.)

The other thing I was worried about is that there is no under spider venting in the frame and the pole vent is tiny for a driver of this magnitude. I think it is maybe a half of an inch in diameter at most. Despite the warped surround and cone, and lack of venting the suspension noise from this driver is really good up until excursion gets pretty high. It starts making some mechanical noise around 2" peak to peak and at about 3" peak to peak it's not bad at all compared to other drivers. I'd say it is not quite as quiet as an LMS or XXX at that excursion level but it is better than the Fi Q and plenty of other long throw drivers I've had experience with. The tiny pole vent does make some noise at high excursion and pumps a lot of air once excursion gets high. It does get a little noisey but truthfully I expected it to whistle or pump really loudly and it's far less noticeable than I thought it would be. Once you put the driver in an enclosure with some stuffing or damping I don't think it will be much of an issue at all. I'd have to say that on the front of excursion noise Greg's UXL-18 made me eat crow a little bit. I thought that it would be noisey due to the lack of venting, the tiny pole and especially the surround issue. It was quieter than a lot of other drivers I've used.

I am not a fan of the cork front gasket. It is already coming loose from the frame in one section which Greg noted before he sent it to me. That's just a cosmetic thing though really. I also noted that the driver shown on the Mach5 site has a CF dustcap but Greg's is a black dust cap of I believe paper. It's not very sturdy so be careful not to press on it or let anything hit it if you have one. CF should be much more sturdy and it looks better. Maybe if you order the driver sans logo it gets the different dust-cap? Again this isn't something that really affects performance at all. Just a minor gripe. I was a little surprised at the weight. It doesn't seem as heavy as I thought it would be from looking at the big honkin motor (That's a good thing BTW.). Feels like maybe 55lbs? Don't get me wrong it's still a stupid big driver though. Also the packaging being used now is solid and a lot better than what is used on some others. Unless the shipping companies start dropping them off of the back of the trucks I don't see these getting damaged in shipping often.
LL
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post #148 of 519 Old 02-06-2012, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

6 cubes? What are you using for power?

I'm hoping to keep these to 3 cubes or less...

I'm using a Crown XTi 4000 mostly for it's PEQ. I haven't seen a XTi 4000 tested any where for power @ 20Hz and lower. I estimate it to be in the neighborhood of 600 - 800 watts. That's plenty for my theater area and demos for friends.
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post #149 of 519 Old 02-06-2012, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Couple of comments on the driver.

I had noticed that the surround and/or cone on the UXL-18 that Greg sent was much lower on one side as soon as I opened the shipping box. I tried to take some pics with my cell-phone. The picture quality is really bad but perhaps you can see the issue. It is very obvious when actually staring at the driver. Greg had noticed it as well. It is on the lower left of the driver at about 8 o'clock.

I've noticed reading reports from DIYers about delivered drivers being out of spec, dented, misaligned, glue all over, magnets don't fit basket, etc. Now this ULX-18 has a cone issue.
I'd be interested to see the assembly process of a driver where the problems I mentioned happen in the first place and then are missed in the final product evaluation before being sent to the customer.
Price for this specialized equipment is usually high along with the consumers expectations. I know some of the companies go out of their way to make things right (after) a problem is noticed by the consumer. I would think more quality controls in the production process would reduce the call backs.
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post #150 of 519 Old 02-07-2012, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I am not a fan of the cork front gasket. It is already coming loose from the frame in one section which Greg noted before he sent it to me. That's just a cosmetic thing though really. I also noted that the driver shown on the Mach5 site has a CF dustcap but Greg's is a black dust cap of I believe paper. It's not very sturdy so be careful not to press on it or let anything hit it if you have one. CF should be much more sturdy and it looks better. Maybe if you order the driver sans logo it gets the different dust-cap? Again this isn't something that really affects performance at all. Just a minor gripe. I was a little surprised at the weight. It doesn't seem as heavy as I thought it would be from looking at the big honkin motor (That's a good thing BTW.). Feels like maybe 55lbs? Don't get me wrong it's still a stupid big driver though. Also the packaging being used now is solid and a lot better than what is used on some others. Unless the shipping companies start dropping them off of the back of the trucks I don't see these getting damaged in shipping often.

Mark got back to me via email when I asked about the gasket....he was able to source some rubber wrap-around gaskets; he noted his frustration at the front gasket issues as well.

I'm going to buy the rubber wrap-around gaskets from him at cost for my 2 drivers and swap those out.

Josh, I actually don't remember the surround being THAT low when I sent it out, it was lower but not to that extreme, I'm not sure if it was that noticeable in my initial pictures. I'm wondering if use/shipping increased the degree....maybe not. Weird. If it isn't affecting the true performance at all, I'll just put that one in the darker corner.

Thanks again for testing this new driver out since many are interested. Will be good to see what your graphs look like.

I was also surprised at how light it feels in comparison to the massive driver it holds.
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