Edogg's QUAD LMS AIY (Assemble It Yourself) Build - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 603 Old 05-07-2012, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Edoggs impressions of his quad setup? All of this fans eagerly await his input...

Sorry bro, had a bunch going on this weekend and didnt get to play with the rig at all. Either way im gonna have to wait till i can order the second amp to get a real impression of what these 4 puppies can do.
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post #332 of 603 Old 05-07-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

In a room measuring 16 feet wide and 21 feet deep and 9 foot ceilings what db should I be able to achieve in movies from my seating position which would be 14 feet from my listening position?

Kutlow, I highly suggest you check out data-bass.com and look at the output graphs. IIRC the dts10, head to head with a single lms-U will have more output in it's sweet-stop which is tuning (around 13hz) up to around 50hz where it gets pretty peaky. The LMS will not head to head outgun it in this area, but if you were going to go for something that will yield a smoother response, and cover more bandwidth (i.e. lower than the tuning of the dts) then the LMS' are a no brainer in my opinion. replacing three of your dts10 kits with 2-4 lms-U's would be a major change, but it will also be a very linear response with the least distorion of anything youve more than likely heard, and some people just dont like that, and/or get used to it.

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post #333 of 603 Old 05-08-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Kutlow, I highly suggest you check out data-bass.com and look at the output graphs. IIRC the dts10, head to head with a single lms-U will have more output in it's sweet-stop which is tuning (around 13hz) up to around 50hz where it gets pretty peaky. The LMS will not head to head outgun it in this area, but if you were going to go for something that will yield a smoother response, and cover more bandwidth (i.e. lower than the tuning of the dts) then the LMS' are a no brainer in my opinion. replacing three of your dts10 kits with 2-4 lms-U's would be a major change, but it will also be a very linear response with the least distorion of anything youve more than likely heard, and some people just dont like that, and/or get used to it.

I dont understand what you just said. Can you look at the graph and tell me the difference between 3 dts 10's compared to 4 LMSULTRA 18'S? tHANKS IN ADVANCE.
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post #334 of 603 Old 05-08-2012, 02:53 PM
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Before EQ and room plaement I believe the TC SOunds would be a lot smoother and linear. If you thought of getting 3 DTS(6x12's) why not get a Bosso or full NOt? (Bosso 8x15 Not 8x18)

edogg's setup is perfect for me. Has plenty of everything. I hope I can build boxes with similar quality is all. Beasts setup is awesome also.
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post #335 of 603 Old 05-09-2012, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

I dont understand what you just said. Can you look at the graph and tell me the difference between 3 dts 10's compared to 4 LMSULTRA 18'S? tHANKS IN ADVANCE.

The DTS-10's are going to be more efficient than 4 sealed LMS, and being a horn, the output is going to be more inside it's passband. The horn is tuned to 13.5hz IIRC. So, yes, the 3 DTS-10's will be LOUDER from about 12hz or so up to around 50-60hz where the response starts to get a little crazy. Many folks who have measured have found very peaky response in the upper bass ranges on DTS-10's. This is where the 4 ultra's will excel. assuming a sealed and properly eq'd system, the quad LMS setup will go lower than the DTS-10's and further up the response, where the DTS-10's reponse gets a little jumpy, the ultra's will be much more linear to begin with. Bottom line here is the sealed ultra setup will play a much broader passband than the danley's, but the danleys will have more output in the area that they shine (from 13.5hz to 50-60hz. Can your mains play down that low to pick up where the danley's let off? Most people's cant, even though in many cases they think they do...

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post #336 of 603 Old 05-09-2012, 07:43 AM
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Four Gjallerhorns and your set. LOL
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post #337 of 603 Old 05-15-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Added all build thread pics to first post.
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post #338 of 603 Old 05-15-2012, 11:42 AM
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After hearing the response from the gtg on what two can do with a single LG clone, I can't imagine what kind of damage can be done with your four drivers and two clones.

I was so excited I went out and bought all the electrical wiring for my subpanel yesterday. Still having problems coordinating with my electrician to come and install it all though. Just might do it myself this weekend if I have time.
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post #339 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Added all build thread pics to first post.

Great idea!

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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

After hearing the response from the gtg on what two can do with a single LG clone, I can't imagine what kind of damage can be done with your four drivers and two clones.

I was so excited I went out and bought all the electrical wiring for my subpanel yesterday. Still having problems coordinating with my electrician to come and install it all though. Just might do it myself this weekend if I have time.

I know right. Four is going to be stellar... I remember watching a video of Luke's quad LMS's in action. Seeing the walls flex like that really convinced me that these really were the end all be all of subs...

Duc, you have a pair of Ultra's and a Clone on the way as well?

Man, if I have to upgrade my breaker box to add a 30amp (or 20amp) panel that's just going to be an additional cost and piss the wifey off more. I haven't got mine on order yet because I'm still trying to sell my current sub.

I gave the wife permission to drop $8K on upgrading our kitchen appliances. I think that might be the ace up my sleve when it comes down to it. Here is how I hope the argument goes down:

Wife: What's wrong with the bass we have right now?
Me: It's ok, but the sub's I want are smoother and will add to the movie experience.
Wife: Well I don't want to waste money on that.
Me: Ok, what was wrong with our old appliances, honey?
Wife: Nothing really, they are just old.
Me: Why did you want to upgrade them?
Wife: Because they complimented the kitchen better and the ice machine actually works.
Me: Sounds like they added to the kitchen experience.
Wife: F* you Austin, buy your damn speakers, but take you and your pillows to the guest room.
Me: Yes dear.
Wife: I told you never to call me dear.

I can only pray it goes down that smooth. She's a crafty one... In our day jobs, we're both professional negotiators. She usually wins... Bottom-line, I have a real challenge on my hands boys.

 

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post #340 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 05:05 AM
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hahaha. Just put two of the subs in Appliance boxes for a while. LOL
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post #341 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Man, if I have to upgrade my breaker box to add a 30amp (or 20amp) panel that's just going to be an additional cost and piss the wifey off more.

That's why I'm getting all this done before I install Wife 1.0. Much easier to get her to accept them if they are already there.

I'm actually getting a whole 100A subpanel installed in my closet. I only have 20A in there now with all sorts of extension cords running out to other dedicated circuits in the room to feed my equipment.

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Duc, you have a pair of Ultra's and a Clone on the way as well?

I actually already have the clone in the 220V flavor. Can't plug it in yet since I don't have the 220V/20A circuit yet. See above. Getting a subpanel in the closet will allow me the versatility to drop any size circuit I will need very easily. All I have to power the two Ultras is a measly little QSC RMX-5050.

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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I gave the wife permission to drop $8K on upgrading our kitchen appliances. I think that might be the ace up my sleve when it comes down to it. Here is how I hope the argument goes down:

Wife: What's wrong with the bass we have right now?
Me: It's ok, but the sub's I want are smoother and will add to the movie experience.
Wife: Well I don't want to waste money on that.
Me: Ok, what was wrong with our old appliances, honey?
Wife: Nothing really, they are just old.
Me: Why did you want to upgrade them?
Wife: Because they complimented the kitchen better and the ice machine actually works.
Me: Sounds like they added to the kitchen experience.
Wife: F* you Austin, buy your damn speakers, but take you and your pillows to the guest room.
Me: Yes dear.
Wife: I told you never to call me dear.

I can only pray it goes down that smooth. She's a crafty one... In our day jobs, we're both professional negotiators. She usually wins... Bottom-line, I have a real challenge on my hands boys.

LOL! Too funny. Might actually be not far from the truth, but funny nonetheless.
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post #342 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 05:54 AM
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Maybe she wouldn't notice.....LOL
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post #343 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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This is why I have a large stand and a large rack, plenty of room to hide new gear.
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post #344 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

I actually already have the clone in the 220V flavor. Can't plug it in yet since I don't have the 220V/20A circuit yet. See above. Getting a subpanel in the closet will allow me the versatility to drop any size circuit I will need very easily. All I have to power the two Ultras is a measly little QSC RMX-5050.

Pardon my electrical ignorance, but what is the real benefit of going 220V for the Clones and your electrical? I understand doubling the voltage requires have of the amp draw from what I have read, but is that really an advantage if you have the ability to simply install some 110V 30amp circuits? Does lower amperage draw mean a cheaper electric bill? Less strain on the amp or electrical system?

I ask because when I have my dedicated HT built in a few years I was just thinking of having a subpanel installed in my component closet and having something like 300amps on tap (30amp x 10).

Yeah, laugh at me... But I can dream big!

I apologize in advance if I got any of the terminology above mixed up or misspoke anywhere. Hopefully you get the underlying concept of my question.

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Maybe she wouldn't notice.....LOL

My room is small 12 x 14 x 8 (1,344cubes) so throwing a pair of Ultras would unquestionably be noticeable...lol. I'm going to have to get you guys a pic of my room. I'll do that when I get home today.

 

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post #345 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Pardon my electrical ignorance, but what is the real benefit of going 220V for the Clones and your electrical? I understand doubling the voltage requires have of the amp draw from what I have read, but is that really an advantage if you have the ability to simply install some 110V 30amp circuits? Does lower amperage draw mean a cheaper electric bill? Less strain on the amp or electrical system?

I ask because when I have my dedicated HT built in a few years I was just thinking of having a subpanel installed in my component closet and having something like 300amps on tap (30amp x 10).

Yeah, laugh at me... But I can dream big!

I apologize in advance if I got any of the terminology above mixed up or misspoke anywhere. Hopefully you get the underlying concept of my question.



My room is small 12 x 14 x 8 (1,344cubes) so throwing a pair of Ultras would unquestionably be noticeable...lol. I'm going to have to get you guys a pic of my room. I'll do that when I get home today.

There is no difference performance wise. The only benefit is that, all things being the same, 220V devices run cooler than its 110V counterpart. From what I've been told at least. So less heat means less power being wasted. Less heat in my closet is always a good thing as it get hot enough as it is.

Two Ultras in a 1300 ft^3 room (assuming it's sealed) will definitely be felt. My room is 2300 ft^3 and even without sufficient power it get pretty outrageous in there.

I can't imagine needing 300A in a 1300 ft^3 room. That'll be insane. Even notnyt with his 8 Ultras and insane amount of main speakers and power is only running 120A to his wall.
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post #346 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 10:43 AM
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Ill have to second this. my entire house I dont think think is 300a service. you may even get some flack from the power co. to have something like that depending on the service that would be currently there...

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post #347 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaking of power, I got curious a few weeks ago and plugged my clone directly into my Belkin PF60. With nothing else plugged in and running sine waves, the most I could get the clone to pull was 9amps (at least thats what the unit was displaying.) I know this isnt the most accurate way of measuring things but at least it gave me an idea.

On a side note I lucked out and found out I have 3 20amp lines in my HT room. So adding the 2nd clone should not be problem.
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post #348 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Speaking of power, I got curious a few weeks ago and plugged my clone directly into my Belkin PF60. With nothing else plugged in and running sine waves, the most I could get the clone to pull was 9amps (at least thats what the unit was displaying.) I know this isnt the most accurate way of measuring things but at least it gave me an idea.

On a side note I lucked out and found out I have 3 20amp lines in my HT room. So adding the 2nd clone should not be problem.

That should be good for 3 clones. Sound like you're going to need to build up another pair of subs. Or, how about you get a third one and I can run some speaker wires off it to drive my subs.
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post #349 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Two Ultras in a 1300 ft^3 room (assuming it's sealed) will definitely be felt. My room is 2300 ft^3 and even without sufficient power it get pretty outrageous in there.

It has an opening to a hallway and bar area on the side, but I'm hoping it will still pressurize the space well.

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I can't imagine needing 300A in a 1300 ft^3 room. That'll be insane.

OMG! I'm not doing that to my current home. We are having our house built in AZ and I plan on investing a lot of time and effort in designing the dedicated HT room from the onset. It's going to be more like 19w x 28l x 12h so something north of 6,000 ft^3.

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Even notnyt with his 8 Ultras and insane amount of main speakers and power is only running 120A to his wall.

Haha, were you reading my signature block...lol. Not is one of my primary sources of inspiration. I recently discovered that my HT can be financed with home, so I'd really like to go balls to the wall...

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Ill have to second this. my entire house I dont think think is 300a service. you may even get some flack from the power co. to have something like that depending on the service that would be currently there...

True, but if it's not extremely costly I'd rather be over prepared for the Sound Pressure Lab of a Home Theater I'm envisioning...

I've seen some residential homes with 600 amp service. Don't get me wrong, I'm not building a 10,000 sqft home. I do however, plan to have much more in the HT department than some of these larger homes do.

 

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post #350 of 603 Old 05-16-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

It has an opening to a hallway and bar area on the side, but I'm hoping it will still pressurize the space well.

A pair of Ultras did well in a space that was at least 12K ft^3. I'm sure it'll have no trouble in your current space.

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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

OMG! I'm not doing that to my current home. We are having our house built in AZ and I plan on investing a lot of time and effort in designing the dedicated HT room from the onset. It's going to be more like 19w x 28l x 12h so something north of 6,000 ft^3.

Even with that size room 300A is overkill, but I like your thinking though. NOt sure what the cost of copper for that would be, but depending on the distance it's not going to be cheap. Then again, since you're folding it into the cost of a house construction, it may not be that bad. I'd do it if I could. My guess is that even 200A would be more than enough. Remember, that's 200A continuous. You'll never be drawing that much.

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Haha, were you reading my signature block...lol. Not is one of my primary sources of inspiration.

Actually I've been following some of his threads and remembered it. He is also one of my heroes. He is one of the many people who has inspired me to upgrade my equipment to what it is now and what it may be in the future. I do, however remembering seeing your signature before, but I didn't realize it was yours until you mentioned it just now.

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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

True, but if it's not extremely costly I'd rather be over prepared for the Sound Pressure Lab of a Home Theater I'm envisioning...

I've seen some residential homes with 600 amp service. Don't get me wrong, I'm not building a 10,000 sqft home. I do however, plan to have much more in the HT department than some of these larger homes do.

Totally with you here. Better to be over prepared than find out you've fallen short in your planning and have to retrofit. It's always cheaper to overbuild then to have to fall short and redo it again.

Good luck with your new house.
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post #351 of 603 Old 05-17-2012, 03:48 AM
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Good luck with your new house.

We already own the land, but it's going to be about 2-3 years before we break ground. Depending on the market and our current investment strategy.

Enough about my situation though...

Edogg! It's been like 2 weeks since I asked last. That's time for another pay check to clear...lol. Where we at on that second clone?

 

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post #352 of 603 Old 05-17-2012, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Enough about my situation though...

Edogg! It's been like 2 weeks since I asked last. That's time for another pay check to clear...lol. Where we at on that second clone?

Almost there bro, almost there. Should be ordering it up real soon.
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post #353 of 603 Old 05-18-2012, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Great idea!



I know right. Four is going to be stellar... I remember watching a video of Luke's quad LMS's in action. Seeing the walls flex like that really convinced me that these really were the end all be all of subs...

Duc, you have a pair of Ultra's and a Clone on the way as well?

Man, if I have to upgrade my breaker box to add a 30amp (or 20amp) panel that's just going to be an additional cost and piss the wifey off more. I haven't got mine on order yet because I'm still trying to sell my current sub.

I gave the wife permission to drop $8K on upgrading our kitchen appliances. I think that might be the ace up my sleve when it comes down to it. Here is how I hope the argument goes down:

Wife: What's wrong with the bass we have right now?
Me: It's ok, but the sub's I want are smoother and will add to the movie experience.
Wife: Well I don't want to waste money on that.
Me: Ok, what was wrong with our old appliances, honey?
Wife: Nothing really, they are just old.
Me: Why did you want to upgrade them?
Wife: Because they complimented the kitchen better and the ice machine actually works.
Me: Sounds like they added to the kitchen experience.
Wife: F* you Austin, buy your damn speakers, but take you and your pillows to the guest room.
Me: Yes dear.
Wife: I told you never to call me dear.

I can only pray it goes down that smooth. She's a crafty one... In our day jobs, we're both professional negotiators. She usually wins... Bottom-line, I have a real challenge on my hands boys.

I be darn If a woman ever tells me what I can buy or cant.
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post #354 of 603 Old 05-18-2012, 07:52 PM
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i be darn if a woman ever tells me what i can buy or cant.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000

 

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post #355 of 603 Old 05-18-2012, 08:22 PM
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I be darn If a woman ever tells me what I can buy or cant.

You, my good sir, sound very single... Wait, to clarify... You sound "unmarried."

 

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post #356 of 603 Old 05-19-2012, 04:19 PM
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single and head of household
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post #357 of 603 Old 05-20-2012, 12:14 PM
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I should re-take that video with the subs close to max output. There was plenty of room left when I took that one.
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post #358 of 603 Old 05-21-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

I should re-take that video with the subs close to max output. There was plenty of room left when I took that one.

Luke, did you mean to post this response on this thread? This seems kinda out of the blue???

But! If you are talking about the video you took of your walls about to collapse on your thread...then I would definitely like to see it full bore (especially if you were holding back a little!).

 

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post #359 of 603 Old 05-21-2012, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Luke, did you mean to post this response on this thread? This seems kinda out of the blue???

But! If you are talking about the video you took of your walls about to collapse on your thread...then I would definitely like to see it full bore (especially if you were holding back a little!).

I really liked the video of them in super slow-mo. Now that was way cool!
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post #360 of 603 Old 05-21-2012, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Second amp is here...................................well sort of.

A friend and fellow AVS'er came by yesterday and let me borrow his FACE amp while I save up a little more cash. After getting the amp in the rack and the subs hooked up, we fired up the SS demo disc. All's I gotta say is HOLY CRAP!!! Talk about output and extension! Some of the scenes were down right violent! It was AWESOME!!!

Thanks for letting me use the amp Mike!
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