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post #211 of 603 Old 04-08-2012, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Are you using any sort of DSP like the MiniDSP? Or any sort of ParaEQ?

Or are you running straight from reciever to the amp?

I'm running an SMS-1
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post #212 of 603 Old 04-10-2012, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey got a question for you guys. What do you think I'd lose by going from 2 FP14k's to a single FP10k. So basically 4400watts to each sub vs. 2100watts to each sub. I currently have my 14k running off its own 20amp line. My plan is to buy another 14k and install another 20amp line for it. But if the gain is marginal vs the single FP10k, then i might have to re-think my plan. Any thoughts on this fellas???
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post #213 of 603 Old 04-10-2012, 07:08 PM
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3db. amps dont run as hard, last longer, can run cooler, etc.
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post #214 of 603 Old 04-10-2012, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

3db. amps dont run as hard, last longer, can run cooler, etc.

3db's per sub right? X4 that's 12dbs??? Am I thinking right? That sounds like a lot. Lol

Maybe I shouldn't be a cheapskate?? Lol
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post #215 of 603 Old 04-10-2012, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

3db's per sub right? X4 that's 12dbs??? Am I thinking right? That sounds like a lot. Lol

Maybe I shouldn't be a cheapskate?? Lol

Wrong, 3db total. You're essentially having the power (slightly more), so you lose 3db per sub, which is the same as 3db total.
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post #216 of 603 Old 04-10-2012, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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So its basically deciding between loosing an extra 3db's of headroom or buying another amp and having a 20amp line installed. Considering that I usually watch flicks/listen to music at -10db's maybe the FP10k would be a better choice for me.

Things that make ya go hmmmmm.....
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post #217 of 603 Old 04-10-2012, 07:42 PM
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I would agree with the higher wattage if you were running a club, I guess it's not too late though

In your 4cuft enclosures you reach xmax at 10hz with 3200 watts. 4400 watts you need a HPF which I know you run at 11hz which makes that wattage safe but you don't really gain that much, might as well run the lower wattage without a HPF.

With the subs coupled and 2100 watts each your going to be hitting over 110db at 10hz depending on room gain.

Ahhhhh what the heck, order up another 14K, it's not my money

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post #218 of 603 Old 04-11-2012, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I would agree with the higher wattage if you were running a club, I guess it's not too late though

In your 4cuft enclosures you reach xmax at 10hz with 3200 watts. 4400 watts you need a HPF which I know you run at 11hz which makes that wattage safe but you don't really gain that much, might as well run the lower wattage without a HPF.

With the subs coupled and 2100 watts each your going to be hitting over 110db at 10hz depending on room gain.

Ahhhhh what the heck, order up another 14K, it's not my money

agreed. Better to have too much power than not enough have you ever clipped or gotten to the -4 on your single LG with the dual LMS's? if that was the case then id definitely say get another

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post #219 of 603 Old 04-11-2012, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Clipped no. -4 on the amp? HELL YEAH!
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post #220 of 603 Old 04-11-2012, 07:02 AM
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mine starts making a small clicking sound when it hits -4 so that makes me nervous, I try to stay away. I guess I need more

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post #221 of 603 Old 04-16-2012, 04:11 AM
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So what's the latest man? Still boxes with no tenants!!!

I've been trying to softly justify getting just one Ultra and the FP14K, but now it seems everytime we watch a movie the wifey is asking me to turn the bass down. Almost like, now that she knows I want more, she is laying the foundation for rejection. Women...

Off topic, you guys do your taxes yet? We did ours and...well, it's looking good...lol. Seems like tax season would be as good a time as any to splurge on one's hobbies(if it goes in your favor). Still not quite used to getting a good chunk of change back, so we pretty much anticipated(and always shoot for) a $0 return.

I was off (in a good way) and now it might be a toss up between more LFE or a Panny AE7000U setup. I think the family would enjoy the projector more and it would have more of a visual impact / wow factor, but that's not quite the "impact" I really want.

Hope everyone had as good of a tax holiday as me...

 

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post #222 of 603 Old 04-16-2012, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

So what's the latest man? Still boxes with no tenants!!!

I've been trying to softly justify getting just one Ultra and the FP14K, but now it seems everytime we watch a movie the wifey is asking me to turn the bass down. Almost like, now that she knows I want more, she is laying the foundation for rejection. Women...

Off topic, you guys do your taxes yet? We did ours and...well, it's looking good...lol. Seems like tax season would be as good a time as any to splurge on one's hobbies(if it goes in your favor). Still not quite used to getting a good chunk of change back, so we pretty much anticipated(and always shoot for) a $0 return.

I was off (in a good way) and now it might be a toss up between more LFE or a Panny AE7000U setup. I think the family would enjoy the projector more and it would have more of a visual impact / wow factor, but that's not quite the "impact" I really want.

Hope everyone had as good of a tax holiday as me...

Yeah empty boxes. Oh well soon enough.

For me, adding a PJ was the biggest single factor in improving our HT experience. But it's closely followed by a good LFE system. Either way you choose you can't loose.

2 incomes + 0 kids = sucky ass tax returns LOL!
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post #223 of 603 Old 04-16-2012, 09:28 AM
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Taxes.....................arghhhhhh

Don't we have any Washington lobbyists around the DIY section who can get BASS deductions on the books

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #224 of 603 Old 04-16-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Hey got a question for you guys. What do you think I'd lose by going from 2 FP14k's to a single FP10k. So basically 4400watts to each sub vs. 2100watts to each sub. I currently have my 14k running off its own 20amp line. My plan is to buy another 14k and install another 20amp line for it. But if the gain is marginal vs the single FP10k, then i might have to re-think my plan. Any thoughts on this fellas???

Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

3db. amps dont run as hard, last longer, can run cooler, etc.

Yup. 3dB less output per driver.

However, with slightly less power, you won't have to use the high pass filters anymore. I think we talked about this before. Won't have to worry so much about overdriving the LMS-U's with 2kw.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #225 of 603 Old 04-16-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Scott. I've decided to just stick to the original plan and go with a second FP14k.
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post #226 of 603 Old 04-16-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Yup. 3dB less output per driver.

However, with slightly less power, you won't have to use the high pass filters anymore. I think we talked about this before. Won't have to worry so much about overdriving the LMS-U's with 2kw.

IME, I would have to disagree with not needing a HPF. My LMS will bottom at slightly over moderate listening levels with just my QSC RMX5050. I have a pair of LMS connected in stereo to a single amp. I can see the rubber surround deform and the driver bottom when playing HTTYD.

When playing the scene with the dragon crash, I can only get my receiver to ~-15 on the MV with the gain knobs set to 26 on the amp and running the sub trim 3dBs hot. This would lead me to believe a HPF is still required. Well Either that or I screwed up my box build. 3.5 ft^3 sealed box.
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post #227 of 603 Old 04-16-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Thanks Scott. I've decided to just stick to the original plan and go with a second FP14k.

You are damn right you did!!! That is the best way to go.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #228 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Thanks Scott. I've decided to just stick to the original plan and go with a second FP14k.

Bravo! Sucks you are going to have to get another 20amp line installed.

If it's one thing (among dozens) that I will take away from this forum is to be sure to have my next dedicated HT wired to handle whatever I throw at it from a load standpoint. I'd hate to keep needing to add 20-30amp lines every time I wanted to add another step-up in power... The goal would be something like Not's system, but when it comes time to build the house (if it's not extremely cost prohibitive) I'll see if I can get something in the neighborhood of 240amps (8 x 30amp) just to be safe.

It's all about headroom, right? <----Something else I've picked up here!

 

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post #229 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I'll see if I can get something in the neighborhood of 240amps (8 x 30amp) just to be safe.



You'll be better off running another breaker panel to your closet. It's easier to run a single 0/1 run to a panel in the closet. Then you can easily add circuits from there as needed.
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post #230 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 07:04 AM
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Good idea, Duc. Wish I'd thought of that.
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post #231 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 07:12 AM
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Good idea, Duc. Wish I'd thought of that.

Yes, I wish I did too when I first started. Could have saved myself some serious cash and time. Then again, when I first started, all I thought I'd ever need was a single 20A circuit in my closet then another outside for my sub. Four pro amps and several temporary extension cords to trip over later, I'm getting a sub panel installed to accommodate my new LG clone.
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post #232 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 07:48 AM
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I hear you. I ran 4 dedicated 20amp 120V lines. They suffice for everything but the pro amp for the woofers. I hit the 18s hard the first day I put them in and the MarcoTech snapped the 20amp breaker like a twig. Never even came close with the 21"s. At this point I'm just going to add two 240V lines, but in hindsight a panel would have been great.
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post #233 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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So just got done ordering some more stuff. Another LMS should be here next week along with a custom made BJC 4into1 XLR splitter, some more 10ga wire, and of course a couple of bags of polyfill.

Little by little.
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post #234 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 10:10 AM
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Time to run them hooot.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #235 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post



You'll be better off running another breaker panel to your closet. It's easier to run a single 0/1 run to a panel in the closet. Then you can easily add circuits from there as needed.

Yes, will do. Thanks for the insight. I'm sure if it's accounted for in the intial construction phase it would be MUCH more cost effective, cleaner, etc... If I ever sold I would bet the house the buyers would stratch their head wondering why I needed more power in one room than the rest of the house.

I love this hobby...

 

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post #236 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

So just got done ordering some more stuff. Another LMS should be here next week along with a custom made BJC 4into1 XLR splitter, some more 10ga wire, and of course a couple of bags of polyfill.

Little by little.

Nice... Hey, do you have a link to that XLR splitter? I searched Blue Jeans and came up short. Might be right in front of my eyes, but I don't see it? Also, what's the need for a 4 to 1 splitter? I know you have a RCA to XLR converter, but aren't you just splitting your LFE Channel for a direct input into each Clone? Meaning, two clones, two cables needed? Or are you planning for 4 Clones!!!! Is the cat out of the bag for your future expansion plans?

To be not or not to be not?

 

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post #237 of 603 Old 04-17-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Nice... Hey, do you have a link to that XLR splitter? I searched Blue Jeans and came up short. Might be right in front of my eyes, but I don't see it? Also, what's the need for a 4 to 1 splitter? I know you have a RCA to XLR converter, but aren't you just splitting your LFE Channel for a direct input into each Clone? Meaning, two clones, two cables needed? Or are you planning for 4 Clones!!!! Is the cat out of the bag for your future expansion plans?

To be not or not to be not?

The splitter is not on their site as its a custom built cable. I had to contact them to place the order on it. The reason for the 4-1 adapter is to keep the signal path as simple as possible. So it's Denon to SMS-1 via an RCA/XLR adapter, then XLR cable from the SMS-1 to the custom 4-1 adapter which will plug in directly into the 2 clones (4channels).

So it's more like half-not.
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post #238 of 603 Old 04-18-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

The splitter is not on their site as its a custom built cable. I had to contact them to place the order on it. The reason for the 4-1 adapter is to keep the signal path as simple as possible. So it's Denon to SMS-1 via an RCA/XLR adapter, then XLR cable from the SMS-1 to the custom 4-1 adapter which will plug in directly into the 2 clones (4channels).

So it's more like half-not.

Ah, of course. Two-Channel, each channel can take their own dedicated input. WTF was I thinking.

Nice to know BJC will make you custom cables. Yet another educational post for me.

Hey, so I forget what your plan was again. You're going to stack the subs right? Or put them in each in a corner (4 seperate locations)? If you were to seperate them into 4 seperate locations, wouldn't it be safe to assume another SMS-1 would be benificial? Like 1 EQ per pair (left/right or front/back)? Or would you need to have two dedicated LFE outputs from your received for that to be benificial?

Not my intention to veer the topic to SubEQing, just learning a lot and trying to figure out the big picture, ya know. Let me rephrase the question:

You are splitting 1 LFE output, so the signal is the same, correct? Would there be any benifit by adding another SubEQ to run your incoming pair if you were looking to take full advantage of other placement options.

Obviously this is a moot point for your particilar application given your purchase of a 1to4 XLR splitter, but I'm just asking for theoretical purposes.

 

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post #239 of 603 Old 04-18-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

The splitter is not on their site as its a custom built cable. I had to contact them to place the order on it. The reason for the 4-1 adapter is to keep the signal path as simple as possible. So it's Denon to SMS-1 via an RCA/XLR adapter, then XLR cable from the SMS-1 to the custom 4-1 adapter which will plug in directly into the 2 clones (4channels).

So it's more like half-not.

You could have just run one xlr cable to the amps and hooked up the rest of the inputs with jumpers
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post #240 of 603 Old 04-18-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Ah, of course. Two-Channel, each channel can take their own dedicated input. WTF was I thinking.

Nice to know BJC will make you custom cables. Yet another educational post for me.

Hey, so I forget what your plan was again. You're going to stack the subs right? Or put them in each in a corner (4 seperate locations)? If you were to seperate them into 4 seperate locations, wouldn't it be safe to assume another SMS-1 would be benificial? Like 1 EQ per pair (left/right or front/back)? Or would you need to have two dedicated LFE outputs from your received for that to be benificial?

Not my intention to veer the topic to SubEQing, just learning a lot and trying to figure out the big picture, ya know. Let me rephrase the question:

You are splitting 1 LFE output, so the signal is the same, correct? Would there be any benifit by adding another SubEQ to run your incoming pair if you were looking to take full advantage of other placement options.

Obviously this is a moot point for your particilar application given your purchase of a 1to4 XLR splitter, but I'm just asking for theoretical purposes.

Yeah they're gonna be stacked in the rear corners.

Check out MJ's response on page 5, post #131
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