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post #181 of 309 Old 03-03-2012, 01:01 PM
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I was just comparing older graphs to now, only the no smoothing with behringer mic were done last night. I bought the mic from the link you guys gave me in my sub thread. It was the $100 calibrated from CSL. I could boost the low end even more if need be, what do you guys think? We can move the discussion to my thread if need be.
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post #182 of 309 Old 03-04-2012, 07:40 AM
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Did you ever get these back into the enclosures? What do you think about them? very curious, thanks.
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post #183 of 309 Old 03-05-2012, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you ever get these back into the enclosures? What do you think about them? very curious, thanks.

They are nicely sealed and back in I just barely got them back plugged in before gametime saturday night so I havent even been able to run a good sweep and re-eq. I had some issues figuring out how to set them up right using the DCX but im getting there. I think tonight I will be able to run a good sweep with audyssey and then do additional EQing to get them where they need to be. Ill post results then. seems that all holes are now plugged so thats the best news

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post #184 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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FP is here!! looks like tonight is the night to start dialing everything in! Super stoked! I did realize I got a buzz on the line when I introduced the DCX, but what im going to do is put it on the same circuit as the amp when I pop it in and go from there. Cant wait to see what these guys REALLY do

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post #185 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 12:53 PM
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Just be prepared, the fans in that amp are sooo much louder than I was expecting.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #186 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Just be prepared, the fans in that amp are sooo much louder than I was expecting.

Got a nice spot picked out for the amp behind my stereo rack in the storage room. Should be all good, ill rack mount it at first to set levels, and then ill remove it and relocate behind a sheetrock and insulated wall. I did have them do the fan mod so it might not be as bad

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post #187 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Got a nice spot picked out for the amp behind my stereo rack in the storage room. Should be all good, ill rack mount it at first to set levels, and then ill remove it and relocate behind a sheetrock and insulated wall. I did have them do the fan mod so it might not be as bad

Awesome! Congrats bro!

My FP also has the Sunon fans installed, and IMO, it isn't too bad.

Question for ya, will you be running a HPF??
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post #188 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 02:36 PM
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Question for ya, will you he running a HPF??

If Beast runs a HPF with these I will personally come to his house and repo his XXX's...
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post #189 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 03:02 PM
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I had no idea you could get a fan mod

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #190 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Awesome! Congrats bro!

My FP also has the Sunon fans installed, and IMO, it isn't too bad.

Question for ya, will you he running a HPF??

High pass filter

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post #191 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha. Nice Scott!!! Yep no Hp junk going on here. Do I have the dip switches right for stereo mode?
LL

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post #192 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 04:05 PM
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Looks correct to me.

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post #193 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

If Beast runs a HPF with these I will personally come to his house and repo his XXX's...

Oh oh, must have been a total newbie question. My bad!

Another noob question, is it because the XXX can take all that clone power??
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post #194 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Oh oh, must have been a total newbie question. My bad!

Another noob question, is it because the XXX can take all that clone power??

i think sealed subs at low frequencies usually run out of throw before they run out of power, so if you have gobs of power, and you have 54mm xmax each way, you need no hpf since you will almost never run out of throw.

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post #195 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 04:54 PM
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i think sealed subs at low frequencies usually run out of throw before they run out of power, so if you have gobs of power, and you have 54mm xmax each way, you need no hpf since you will almost never run out of throw.

This. Down low most sub drivers are limited by displacement. Higher up (usually 40-50hz and up) these drivers are amp limited. The XXX18 doesn't have a huge VC or anything. It just has tons of throw and a rather high-ish Q so in a medium sized sealed cab it will never use all the throw and that's good, imo.

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post #196 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea, well.... I got it all going. Got a tolerable but really wish it wasn't there hum across the front stage. Already hit the vcl's on a song at -10 with subs only up 5db's. I just think something is inherently wrong with my setup. I have the gains on the fp14k at 75% avr trim is at -7 but I tried bringing it up and the amp gain down. Same ish.

Im going to try other sub placements tomorrow. Right now they are equidistant from the side walls about 1 1/2 feet in and about 5 feet from each other on the inside. I think it might be the interaction with my mains where I'm just getting too much from the cd on the triple 12's. What Im thinking is I'll pull the t12's off the sub boxes, floor em and move the subs inboard and see how that goes. Actually as I'm thinking while I type, I'll move the mains back against the wall and try that first.

Maybe I just need some kickass mbm's. Maybe I'm just crazy, maybe I need professional help. Maybe I need to do a manual Eq all around. I hope it's the last of the previous options.

Funny even when the fp is clipping, subs aren't really moving a rediculous amount. I need to do a good movie listen. I've just done music so far.

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post #197 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 07:14 PM
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Yea, well.... I got it all going. Got a tolerable but really wish it wasn't there hum across the front stage. Already hit the vcl's on a song at -10 with subs only up 5db's. I just think something is inherently wrong with my setup. I have the gains on the fp14k at 75% avr trim is at -7 but I tried bringing it up and the amp gain down. Same ish.

Im going to try other sub placements tomorrow. Right now they are equidistant from the side walls about 1 1/2 feet in and about 5 feet from each other on the inside. I think it might be the interaction with my mains where I'm just getting too much from the cd on the triple 12's. What Im thinking is I'll pull the t12's off the sub boxes, floor em and move the subs inboard and see how that goes. Actually as I'm thinking while I type, I'll move the mains back against the wall and try that first.

Maybe I just need some kickass mbm's. Maybe I'm just crazy, maybe I need professional help. Maybe I need to do a manual Eq all around. I hope it's the last of the previous options.

Funny even when the fp is clipping, subs aren't really moving a rediculous amount. I need to do a good movie listen. I've just done music so far.

What impedance are these? That amp is rated to 7000 watts per side correct? Maybe wire the subs in 8 ohms and bridge the amp?
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post #198 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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What impedance are these? That amp is rated to 7000 watts per side correct? Maybe wire the subs in 8 ohms and bridge the amp?

I'd get the same as I am now in 4 ohm stereo.

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post #199 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 08:10 PM
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I'd get the same as I am now in 4 ohm stereo.

You're really clipping the clone?! Sure your signal isn't clipping before it hits fp?

Matt

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post #200 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 08:10 PM
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Do you have the clip limiter engaged? If so disable it or set it to its highest setting. Turn your sub channel up to maybe +3 and the dcx down 10db to compensate. That should drop your hum down 10db as well if it is the dcx.

These are effectively about 5 ohms with the coils in series.
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post #201 of 309 Old 03-06-2012, 08:58 PM
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omegalast directed me here - subscribed. These look like amazing drivers. Hope you can figure out the issue.

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post #202 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve_Vai_rules View Post

You're really clipping the clone?! Sure your signal isn't clipping before it hits fp?

Matt

I cant imagine that would be the case with the sub trim all the way at -12 on the avr.

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post #203 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I cant imagine that would be the case with the sub trim all the way at -12 on the avr.

I am clipping my DCX input at times too, time to turn up the gain on the amps and turn the AVR down to -12. My DCX input gain is on -15 dBs already or the lowest setting. BTW, I had a ground loop hum because a cheater plug made it dead silent. I am trying to fix it now. There is a scene in Immortals that is very deep and progressively gets louder as the frequency goes higher. Your subs will love it. I forgot which scene it is.
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post #204 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Do you have the clip limiter engaged? If so disable it or set it to its highest setting. Turn your sub channel up to maybe +3 and the dcx down 10db to compensate. That should drop your hum down 10db as well if it is the dcx.

These are effectively about 5 ohms with the coils in series.

It is set to 195volts Hard, so that is as high as it can go. When I hit -4 light on the amp, I can hear it click inside or something like that.

Ive taken the DCX out of the loop and the hum still remains. even with both the avr and all my other stuff on the same circuit. It isnt as bad when I put the APC line conditioner (that everything runs through) on the same plug as the LG but that kind of defeats the purpose of having two dedicated plugs. I spent almost a month trying to tame a bad buzz a while ago, and managed to get it completely out of the loop and now it is back with the LG, i dont really know what else to do here. The hum from the subs isnt even that bad, it is what it introduced to the mains that really gets me. all other things the same, I dont see any reason why this would have happened. the emotiva xpa-5 is several RU's above the LG and the DCX is located between them so they arent touching or anything.

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post #205 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am clipping my DCX input at times too, time to turn up the gain on the amps and turn the AVR down to -12. My DCX input gain is on -15 dBs already or the lowest setting. BTW, I had a ground loop hum because a cheater plug made it dead silent. I am trying to fix it now. There is a scene in Immortals that is very deep and progressively gets louder as the frequency goes higher. Your subs will love it. I forgot which scene it is.

see ive got the exact opposite, my avr is at 0 trim level, input gain +5 and I dont ever even see the input lights come on on the dcx even at the most demanding levels.

Gonna pop the s-convert in and see what that does. just one more signal in the chain, I hate that...

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post #206 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 07:28 AM
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see ive got the exact opposite, my avr is at 0 trim level, input gain +5 and I dont ever even see the input lights come on on the dcx even at the most demanding levels.

Gonna pop the s-convert in and see what that does. just one more signal in the chain, I hate that...

My clone amp also introduced hum to the system. It is most likely a bad ground in my house causing all this. The AVR is dead silent because it does not have a ground plug to it. My Ada gear had hum as well. I tried a cheater plug on the clone and now the DCX and it is dead silent. My DCX has a PS audio cable which has a removable ground pin but the clone amp needed a cheater or 3 prong to 2 prong adapter. My house has it's own protection on the main box so I am not that worried. I played Immortals at 10dBs over reference(LFE) and right away it sound off(with DCX engaged). I need to run a familiar movie like WOTW or Tron and see what happens. With the adapter is does not matter what gain I use on the amp so I will turn that up and turn down the input side. Right now my settings are AVR 0 dB's, DCX input -15 dBs, each output is 0 dBs, and the clone amp gains are all 9 oclock or 1/4th. I will turn the gains up to 1/2 on the amp and trun down the AVR to -10 or whatever works out. I also ran it 10 dBs hot which could be the problem with a boosted low end and big bass movie. 10 dBs hot requires a ton of power down low which I might not have.
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post #207 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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ha, I cant even get to -10 on some bass heavy rap tracks without clipping, I wont have a chance on big bass movies...

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post #208 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 07:57 AM
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ha, I cant even get to -10 on some bass heavy rap tracks without clipping, I wont have a chance on big bass movies...

I would PM Ricci, maybe the drivers just need more power which means one FP14K bridged per sub? 14000 watts would give you more headroom although only 3 dBs more. What is the sensitivity of the drivers which can help you figure out how much power you really need? I would look at the 20hz sensitivity and work from there. Those drivers are very power hungry for sure. It could be just that you have something wrong in the chain.
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post #209 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 08:04 AM
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That certainly doesn't seem right... With that amp clipping those cones should be jumping out of the enclosures. It doesn't seem like they are being driven very hard? How much excursion is going on during these songs?

Do you have a DMM? Can you verify that the subs are wired correctly (series not parallel)? They should read about 4.2-4.5ohms. If not then either the voice coils are in parallel or you got D1 drivers. I'm thinking that maybe the amp is seeing a very low impedance and that is the issue. If they read in the 4-5ohm range then they are right.

How are they wired to the amp? Are the dip switches maybe not set right?

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see ive got the exact opposite, my avr is at 0 trim level, input gain +5 and I dont ever even see the input lights come on on the dcx even at the most demanding levels.

You said that the DCX signal indicator lights aren't even coming on? That would be very odd with a 9000w amp at clipping. The DCX input is at +5 what is the output? How high is your amplifier gain trims set? Make sure that all EQ is turned off on both the DCX input stage and output stage going to the subs. Also make sure that there are no high or low pass filters engaged. And also check to make sure that dynamic EQ and limiting in the DCX are off on both inputs and outputs.

Also verify the polarity of the 2 subs are in phase. You can try the 9 volt battery trick to make sure that both cones travel the same direction.

A signal booster isn't going to do anything but make the amp clip that much more. You can do the same thing by just turning up the DCX output level.
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post #210 of 309 Old 03-07-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

That certainly doesn't seem right... With that amp clipping those cones should be jumping out of the enclosures. It doesn't seem like they are being driven very hard? How much excursion is going on during these songs?

Thats what im thinking. There has to be a disconnect with the signal somewheres. They DONT seem like they are being driven very hard. excursion when it is clipping is maybe an inch peak to peak before clip lights start going. when it just a kick drum beat or a quick bass note, they barely move. I can hear it, but they dont move much at all.

Do you have a DMM? Can you verify that the subs are wired correctly (series not parallel)? They should read about 4.2-4.5ohms. If not then either the voice coils are in parallel or you got D1 drivers. I'm thinking that maybe the amp is seeing a very low impedance and that is the issue. If they read in the 4-5ohm range then they are right.

I have a DMM from my old landscape lighting days, but how do you test impedance? I have my drivers wired with the + from one vc goes to the negative of the other and the remaining positive and negative from their respective VC's goes back to each channel of the FP. Just like this:

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf..._2-ohm_2ch.jpg



How are they wired to the amp? Are the dip switches maybe not set right?

Double checked the dips, all look good to me.



You said that the DCX signal indicator lights aren't even coming on? That would be very odd with a 9000w amp at clipping. The DCX input is at +5 what is the output?

output is level 0

How high is your amplifier gain trims set?

at about 3:00 or 75%

Make sure that all EQ is turned off on both the DCX input stage and output stage going to the subs. Also make sure that there are no high or low pass filters engaged. And also check to make sure that dynamic EQ and limiting in the DCX are off on both inputs and outputs.

Yep, no additional EQing has been done yet

Also verify the polarity of the 2 subs are in phase. You can try the 9 volt battery trick to make sure that both cones travel the same direction.

I flipped the polarity of one and listened in the center of the two and the perfect null was present where I could tell they were out of phase, switched it back and am all "in-phase" once again.

A signal booster isn't going to do anything but make the amp clip that much more. You can do the same thing by just turning up the DCX output level.

Answers are above in bold, but another thing to point out is that I even have the sub clipping without the DCX in the chain. without it, sub trim on the avr is at -7 for a +5db boost over the rest of the system. and trims on the subs are at 3:00 or 75% there as well. I just find it strange after so many folks say they are barely even using any trim at all on their FP's and only not' said he'd seen the vpl's light up and that it was so unbearable he had to leave the room.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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