15" Dual Opposed Build Continued.. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 02-11-2012, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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This is a continuation of my "Epik Empire, only better" thread from last year.

I just purchased a new Behringer EP4k, digikey fan, and xlr to rca adapters.

The box I have is slightly larger than the Empire at 18.5 x 24 x 25.5 and with the woofers at the end like the Submersive. It also has round overs, 3/4" HDF, 1.5" baffles, minimal bracing, and plate amp cutout. I have added a 1" dowel rod at the center top to bottom. Once I fill the plate amp hole I intend to add another dowel rod horizontally.

I'm now trying to decide on the drivers. I've narrowed my choices down to:

Fi SSD
Dayton HO Reference
Mach 5 IXL-15.2.2

What other good options under $300/ea. are out there and available right now? I like the idea of having a better driver with more excursion potential. If the sealed cabinet didn't do it for me I'd like to be able to use the drivers in another box, maybe ported alignment and so would want the best driver for the $ possible. I'm leaning more towards the FI and Mach 5 drivers over the Dayton for this reason.

All input appreciated.
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post #2 of 28 Old 02-11-2012, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I just picked up some nice, long insulated binding posts on ebay for cheap.

I plan to use these instead of the typical plastic recessed panel, for a higher quality look.
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post #3 of 28 Old 02-11-2012, 12:17 PM
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low distortion, low inductance, not much to hate about the driver except perhaps its appearance.

http://www.amazon.com/W15GTIMKII-quo.../dp/B002NBYNM0
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post #4 of 28 Old 02-11-2012, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't like the way that driver looks at all. That dust cap is fugly. I don't even really like the Fi logo. The most plain look they will let you get away with is black. The Mach 5 has a black cap option which I would do if I go that route.

Ok, which of the three I listed in the first post looks to be the most ideal for my box and room which is under 3100 cubic feet.

Thanks.
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post #5 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 02:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, after more research I think I've narrowed it down to the Dayton HO or DVC.

The dvc while cheaper looking overall, has slightly more xmax, lower qts which as I understand it is better for smaller sealed boxes, and has a lower resonant frequency which is a plus.

I still have some interest in the Mach 5 driver: http://istonline.ca/mach5_ixl_15.html which seems to be built extremely well. It might be too much driver for the build, but like I said earlier that could be a good thing.

Thoughts, opinions? Will be ready to purchase by Wednesday.
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post #6 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 10:52 AM
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fugliness is subjective.

any of the drivers that you have narrowed it down to are decent. if you can make dayton hf390's work, that might be something to explore.
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post #7 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesM228 View Post

I don't like the way that driver looks at all. That dust cap is fugly. I don't even really like the Fi logo. The most plain look they will let you get away with is black. The Mach 5 has a black cap option which I would do if I go that route.

Ok, which of the three I listed in the first post looks to be the most ideal for my box and room which is under 3100 cubic feet.

Thanks.

I've always wanted to experiment with the JBL w15gti,...like many of the jbl's,...the magnetic aspects of the motor are first rate. I wish it had more throw.

Also, the dust cap is available is a somewhat less offensive, albeit borderline, style. ie "JBL 5000W" or similar

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Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
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Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #8 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

fugliness is subjective.

any of the drivers that you have narrowed it down to are decent. if you can make dayton hf390's work, that might be something to explore.

I totally appreciate your input LTD. I just prefer a very stealth (usually all black) look.

I was more referring to the dust cap (petty?), than the basket which wouldn't matter to me as it's not seen once mounted.
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post #9 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 11:42 AM
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no worries, i think the dust cap looks like ass too. my point was simply that that there is a lot more behind the dustcap in a sub. :-)

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post #10 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess I'm looking for someone to say, go with "this one" because it will give you everything you had with the Empire, only more of this or that. I just don't want to trade one for the other. I loved the midbass, but I wanted more output down low. Which of the drivers coupled with my box and Behringer amp would give me all of what I had with the Empire and more? I guess it's just trial and error..? :/
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post #11 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 02:22 PM
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WesM228, I have three JBL GTI 15" subs, two in a dual opposed box and one in a sealed box, I can say that you won't go wrong with them. My dual opposed box is the same size as yours. I sold my speakers and will be getting some new ones. Once they come in, hopefully in the next couple of weeks, I'll start a thread on my build since now I'm using a couple of "crappy" speakers and can't push the subs to the levels that I should. The little that I've heard at a low/moderate volume, I can say they are worth the money and then some. They are dynamic (pack a punch) and produce clean bass. I'll leave it at that for now, until further testing.

Out of the subs that you listed, I would take the JBL's. Don't let the logo on the dust cap bother you. These subs have a sophisticated motor technology (DDD) that will produce very low distortion and with their low Le of 1.0, you can cross them over at over 100hz if you have to since they'll extend high as the chart shows. I have two subs with the 5,000W logo on the dust cap which to me is so-so, and one with small white JBL letters in the dust cap which to me looks better. As for their "limited" xmax of only 20mm. If you have a big room, listen at reference or your priority is the low bass (below 30hz), use several of them. Ebay has them for less than $600 for two. I would wire these in parallel for a 6ohm load to the EP amp in bridge mode. Your amp does 2,000W at 4ohm in bridge mode, at 6ohm, the load will be a little easier on the amp and should still produce around around 1,500-1,600W which is "perfect" for two JBL's. Just my two cents.
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post #12 of 28 Old 02-12-2012, 02:41 PM
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If you want a good looking driver look at the SSA Icon's. Just got these in yesterday, and they are pretty sexy I think (these are Xcons but same appearance as Icon's). I would expect them to have similar inductance to the other Fi drivers, but we'll find out soon. The Icon is likely similar to the SSD but better looking. There are close mic graphs of the 15's in the group buy thread if you're interested.
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post #13 of 28 Old 02-13-2012, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Amp is here. Heavy little guy too!

Will update when I've installed replacement fan.
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post #14 of 28 Old 02-15-2012, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Got the Digikey fan today. This is a slightly higher flowing version with the same dimensions as the original replacement suggested by EP owners.

I also got Hosa xlr to rca female adapters.

Last night I glued a 1/4" mdf backer panel into the sub box as instructed from the original thread. I will then glue a 3/4" mdf panel into the opening, use some wood filler to seal any gaps after it has dried, sand and then prime & paint.

Still waiting on some insulated binding posts from Hong Kong.
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post #15 of 28 Old 02-16-2012, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quiet fan is in place. This is slightly louder and higher flowing than the original replacement Digikey fan used by many. With this fan installed it's 'probably' equivalent in noise to the newest Xbox 360 which I own and at a distance it is not obtrusive at all. I may check with the db meter later and compare the two.

I was thinking about removing that front filter for even better flow but I'm sure there's good reason for it being there.

As for the box, I need to borrow a circular saw so I can properly cut the block off plate. I already tried cutting with a hand saw and the sides ended up all ragged.
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post #16 of 28 Old 02-16-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgse3 View Post

If you want a good looking driver look at the SSA Icon's. Just got these in yesterday, and they are pretty sexy I think (these are Xcons but same appearance as Icon's). I would expect them to have similar inductance to the other Fi drivers, but we'll find out soon. The Icon is likely similar to the SSD but better looking. There are close mic graphs of the 15's in the group buy thread if you're interested.



Concerning Inductance,... what is there Inductance, SSD and Q 15" 's ??

Need something that has good upper FR, for crossing over at around 110-120hz.

Thanks !
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post #17 of 28 Old 02-16-2012, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm..what about Rythmik drivers? They're great quality and obviously do well in a sealed box. Do they require a servo amp to work properly?

I wasn't able to find prices on the website.
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post #18 of 28 Old 02-17-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

fugliness is subjective.

any of the drivers that you have narrowed it down to are decent. if you can make dayton hf390's work, that might be something to explore.

Those HF Dayton's do better in larger enclosures correct? If I added some polyfill might that work out alright. I was considering the HO version because of this.

Got my tax refund tonight so I may just purchase some woofers before the weekend is over. More research to do though.
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post #19 of 28 Old 02-18-2012, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesM228 View Post

Those HF Dayton's do better in larger enclosures correct? If I added some polyfill might that work out alright. I was considering the HO version because of this.

Got my tax refund tonight so I may just purchase some woofers before the weekend is over. More research to do though.

If you want something to cross at 120hz then Id look at the JBL 15 mentioned above especially if it can be had for under $300! Low inductance and 20mm xmax makes it worth the small price more than the Dayton drivers. Otherwise I'd have to believe you could crossover the HO at 120hz given its low inductance, but keep in mind you'd give up some displacement compared to the JBL.
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post #20 of 28 Old 02-18-2012, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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tgse3, I think you're responding mainly to Randy's post above. I do not need my sub to cross over at that point. Still I appreciate the input.
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post #21 of 28 Old 02-18-2012, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, here's a stupid question but would it be possible to port the box? And if so, what size/lenth ports would I ideally need for lowest extension? If this is possible, I could make better use of beefier drivers.

I prefer the sealed sound but would love to have more output or at least more extension than this box/woofer combo will give me. I'm only really completing the build because I don't want the box to go to waste and this is my first venture into DIY. I didn't even build the box, so my actual work has been very minimal.

I just hate to spend over $300 on woofers pretty much certain the build isn't going to top all my previous subs (Empire, A5-350, VTF3.MK3), and just maybe match the Empire.
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post #22 of 28 Old 02-19-2012, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I was able to borrow my moms circular saw and cut the filler board finally.

It's the best cut piece yet. It's not a 'perfect' fit, but it will do fine after I fill in the edges and sand it will look like a solid side.

I also cut the dowel rod to size.

Still haven't got the binding posts or....woofers.
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post #23 of 28 Old 02-24-2012, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally got the $7 binding posts direct from Hong Kong. Only took 2 full weeks. No rush though. I still need to decide which woofers I'm going to use.
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post #24 of 28 Old 02-24-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesM228 View Post

I finally got the $7 binding posts direct from Hong Kong. Only took 2 full weeks. No rush though. I still need to decide which woofers I'm going to use.

I have those same binding posts on 2 of my subs. Make sure once installed, you dab some glue on the threads so they don't back out once in the box. For some reason the nuts didn't want to say very tight.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #25 of 28 Old 02-24-2012, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tip N8!

Guys, any thoughts on these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Alpine-...0d0962&vxp=mtr
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post #26 of 28 Old 02-24-2012, 10:31 PM
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No T/S parameters and the sensitivity is kinda of low... Best for cars.

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post #27 of 28 Old 03-11-2012, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD, I finally measured and the JBL's will not fit due to them being about 1/4" too deep. The dowel rod did me in. I suppose I could cut the rod out and mount one each left and right of the center to allow for enough room. Is it worth it though?

I have finished the block off plate. The filler and sanding was done as instructed but it's not looking as smooth as I'd like after prep and prime. I don't much care to go overboard trying to make it perfect at this point as it's still a learning experience and I'm happy it's something I can say I've done.

The sub will also be placed behind my couch as I recently put my spare 12" sub there and it sounds incredible. Yes, placement IS key. Makes me wonder how much better my Empire or A5-350 would have sounded with this placement.

I'm still tempted to go with the ED 16OV.2 because of the stealth black look with inverted dust cap (gotta plan around the kiddies), my experience with the quality of this driver and price shipped under $450. What is the issue with the T/S parameters. I saw the small discrepancy on the Data-Bass website regarding the 18" version. Is that it?
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post #28 of 28 Old 03-13-2012, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone?
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