The advent loudspeaker rebuild - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 02-23-2012, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
I am getting a set of the original walnut advent loudspeaker cabinets for free from a business partner of mine and wanted to put a thread out asking about what some cool options might be for me to rebuild them into. Id love to incorporate the new SEOS waveguides into a build if its possible, but im willing to take any other opinions here. potentially even a 3 pi type setup The cabinet stock, has a 10" but the basket is the size of a 12, I would be willing to bore it out for whatever. the top of the cab has a "fried egg" type tweeter and would easily fit an SEOS12 with possible even room for a port. The port could also be located below the woofer if needed. Here is a pic of the enclosure off the internet (that woofer is not stock), I wont be able to get the cabinets until tomorrow...

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=adven...1t:429,r:0,s:0

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 02-23-2012, 09:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
WiSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Alot of baffle to work with there, modern upgrades to a classic like that sounds like such a fun project. Scribed

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

WiSounds is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 02-23-2012, 10:19 AM
Senior Member
 
Spec4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Well like I stated in another thread I've had a similar project (Advent 5012) that has been on the "back burner" for some time while I watched the SEOS take shape, pun intended. I've got some E-wave build links that I've saved if you would like them?

The Advent Loudspeaker (Zilch's own OLA):
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=165025

EconoWaveguide Utility Large Advent Build Thread:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196614

AK Design Collaborative - Econo-Waveguide Speaker Project:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...t=large+advent

The Advent Loudspeaker is 12" x 23.25" x 9" = 1.4531 cuft. internal volume by my calcs....
http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachm...1&d=1232943245

Walnut Large Advent Restore in progress - Some Q's:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...t=Large+Advent
Spec4 is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 02-23-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
awesome links, ill check them out I also looked up the specs on the 3pi and the cabinet size on it yields 3.81 cuft while the advent is 1.4, think that would cause problems with the xover and/or doing a build around the 3pi? since it already uses a 12 and is a sealed design, I think it should still work pretty well, just maybe not get as low, which is OK as I cross at 80 or above anyways...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 02-23-2012, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
I tried to look up the specs on the TD12s and the link seems to be down. Does anyone know if it will work ok in 1.4cuft? I dont see why it wouldnt but perhaps it needs more room. Another thought I had was that I could actually extend the back of the cab out another inch or two to gain some additional airspace, and or space for the horn which might need some more depth than the currently available 14inches.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 02-23-2012, 02:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bobgpsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I tried to look up the specs on the TD12s and the link seems to be down. Does anyone know if it will work ok in 1.4cuft? I dont see why it wouldnt but perhaps it needs more room.

I cut your 39 liter (1.4 ft^3) to 36 liters for driver volume, etc. Tune box for 38 Hz (2.5" dia port now at 5" length from 3Pi's 2.5"). Not too bad and handles more power.



TD12S T/S parms


1.4 cubic foot tuning

LL
LL
LL
bobgpsr is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
well that certainly looks like it will work! I was under the impression that the 3pi was a sealed design though? 4pi is the ported. Not that I dont mind porting it, unless it messes with the XO values. I would order the XO from Wayne if I did it like this, assuming with the smaller box that the XO would still work ok using the same drivers.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 07:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bobgpsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

well that certainly looks like it will work! I was under the impression that the 3pi was a sealed design though? 4pi is the ported. Not that I dont mind porting it, unless it messes with the XO values. I would order the XO from Wayne if I did it like this, assuming with the smaller box that the XO would still work ok using the same drivers.

No, the three Pi is ported with an Fb of approx 30 Hz (my sims show 28 Hz) for a F3 of 50 Hz but with a nice slow slope from 80 Hz down to 30 Hz that should work very well with normal room gain.

To use Wayne's crossover you should use the same waveguide (Eminence H290) and front baffle layout (woofer to waveguide locations).

I have two, three Pi kits, with upgraded drivers on order from Wayne (waiting for the AE TD12S's to be built).
bobgpsr is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Hm, so the advent baffle wont be the same size as the standard 3pi build, or do you mean the vertical distance from the horn to the woofer should be the same? that might still work if that's the case.

I would buy all the same components needed for the 3 pi, including the H290 if I did that particular design, but im still open to others as well

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 08:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bobgpsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

...or do you mean the vertical distance from the horn to the woofer should be the same? that might still work if that's the case.


Well Zilch talked about a school of thought that with waveguides baffle width did not matter so much. But there is still the Baffle Step Compensation on the woofer/midrange driver to deal with. I wonder what Wayne Parham would have to say?

But for sure the vertical distance between woofer and waveguide is very important and considered in the crossover design (aiming of the front lobe).
bobgpsr is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 08:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 189
A project in the true tradition of Zilch!

(Seriously, has anyone else taken more old-school speaker boxes, put modern parts in them, and designed a real crossover for the new parts in the old box?)

What I'd do is build a new baffle to fit flush with the step, and screw-mounted so you can get underneath it. I'd mount the SEOS12 flush to the new baffle. For the woofer, I'd rout the inside of the new baffle out to fit the woofer's mounting ring. Mount the woofer to the sub-baffle inside, and on the front side of the new baffle gently round over from the woofer suspension out. (The cutout for the woofer on the new baffle will look kind-of like a flattened urn: a step on the inside, with a round over on the other side. That way, you'll hide the basket frame and better align the driver motors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I tried to look up the specs on the TD12s

Unless already you have a pair, you should think about using an actually available mid woofer.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
DS-21 is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 02-24-2012, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Good suggestions, and No, I dont have the ae's, just thought it would be a great option and is the right size. Ive wanted to hear a good ae speaker for a while.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 09-25-2012, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Ok sold some speakers finally so I am bringing this one back. I have decided on the designer 12 with the SEOS 12 and DNA360 per bwaslo's design. I will probably put my order in by the end of the week. I plan on using these, depending how they sound in either a dedicated listening room or my upstairs den, and Im really looking forward to doing this whole project for sure!!!

One problem. I would really really need someone to assemble the XO for me. I have absolutely no skills with soddering, electronic boards or the like. Would anyone be willing to do this for me? I could order all the stuff necessary and ship it to you, pay for shipping to me obviously and maybe throw a little extra in for time taken?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 09-25-2012, 02:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 844
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 183
I can solder and put XO's together, pretty ones cost extra. biggrin.gif


dsc4212sm.jpg
mtg90 is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 09-26-2012, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Awesome!!! I will PM you when I get the final order down and can ensure that I have all I need to do the XO properly. Thanks man!!!!

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 09-26-2012, 09:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 621
I'm close enough to PE and go there every week to pick up parts. If you want, I can pick up everything you need as a kit and maybe I could talk Bwaslo into showing me the proper way to solder up your boards.

Actually, this would make a good opportunity for me to price everything out and get a kit made up and maybe with the choice of baffles or box.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

Erich H is online now  
post #17 of 18 Old 09-26-2012, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
what is the total SEOS width? I just want to double check that it will fit the baffle of the advent, otherwise, Ill be making new boxes...Regardless, if you want to use this a good shot at getting the full kit built up, I am 100% for it. MTG did offer to build the XO's as well, but if this helps the greater good by you getting a good grasp on XO building. Ill be happy to fund the venture.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
post #18 of 18 Old 09-28-2012, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,508
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Ok back to drawing board... I measured the interior of the front baffle of the advent cabinet. It is not wide enough to fit the SEOS 12. With it's overall width at 13.2", I only have 11 3/4 to work with comfortably. I might be able to squeeze another 1/2" somehow,but I would have to remove the plastic surround that is part of the recessed baffle. Might do this anyway, at which point the designer 12 will still be able to fit, but the SEOS12 is still a good bit too large. Any thoughts on making the 12 work alright? These are kind of just a fun little project I wanted to do, so I dont really want to jump for the SEOS 10 as that will take it way over budget. I plan on doing a 15" SEOS build for the theater more than likely, so I will eventually be doing one of the top-end builds. but for now, this was just supposed to be a little fun project with the advent cabs.

I am kinda disappointed, but I think I can still manage some way to make these work out. Any suggestions? Could I even shave off just a little bit of the WG to make it fit? Or Erich do you have any that are slightly undersized?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off