ED 190v2 TH! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
during my first real consideration to build a th, i considered this driver because my buddy was a ed rep. had the ability to get a couple of these drivers for free. anyways... i was looking for a balls to the wall bass monster and here's what we came up with. dont know if this is gonna cut it or not. im not good with hornsrep and all that measuring stuff. i wanna hear everbodies thoughts on using this driver and the th design.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...products_id=37


Qts: .369
Qes: .37
Qms: 7.5
Fs: 26.00Hz
Re: 3.5
Vas: 228L
Mms: 307.0g
Bl: 22.10T*m
SPL: 90.5dB
Sd: 1200cm²
Xmax: 22.0mm
Voice Coil: 62.5mm

Magnet Width: 8.200"
Cutout Diameter: 16.375"
Mounting Depth: 9.625"
Weight: 42lb
Total Height: 10.600"
Displacement: .10 ft³
Outside Diameter: 18.375"















speckled hen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 11:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Simulated output @1w?
notnyt is online now  
post #3 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Simulated output @1w?


yes
speckled hen is offline  
post #4 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 11:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by speckled hen View Post

yes

Can you post the graph?
notnyt is online now  
post #5 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Can you post the graph?

hell no... im just the builder and money getter lol. i dont do graphs, and designing. i just want to know if this is gonna work before i get to investing and building
speckled hen is offline  
post #6 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 11:34 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 807
some have tested that driver and got very different t/s measurements than e.d., so much so that a few folks have looked for other options.

if the driver inputs are not correct, the modelled horn output will not be correct.

as a secondary matter, your horn has very little expansion from throat to mouth, so it isn't really getting what most would call horn loading. compare what you have there with a ported cab and you are probably only picking up a couple db or so.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #7 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

some have tested that driver and got very different t/s measurements than e.d., so much so that a few folks have looked for other options.

if the driver inputs are not correct, the modelled horn output will not be correct.

as a secondary matter, your horn has very little expansion from throat to mouth, so it isn't really getting what most would call horn loading. compare what you have there with a ported cab and you are probably only picking up a couple db or so.


i heard about ed's specs being off aswell. kinda concerns me. even though my buddy is a rep for ed, even he told me to test the drivers before designing and building. i was hoping for the money... this 18" wouldve been a great choice for a th to play around with.

wanna get crazy? real crazy? and... im dead serious. how bout' two 21" woofers in a th? im dead serious. i dont care how big the box is... if i have to bring the table saws, and routers in the room where im going to put them... i will build the damn enclosure right there! i want to play at 18hz and 80hz. something that will play low for ht and and loud kick drum death metal. if i had to choose, i would rather have the horn sound better for music. again, im serious. please dont try to steer me elsewhere... saying you should build this, or that. i want danley's head. yes, his tractor trailer earthquake simulation rig is bad ass, but... how bout a massive horn for a house?!?!?

http://www.beachaudio.com/B-And-C/21...-p-435392.html


I WANT TWO B&C 21" WOOFER TH!!!
speckled hen is offline  
post #8 of 51 Old 02-29-2012, 11:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 807
"I WANT TWO B&C 21" WOOFER TH!!!"

have a look at the danley "cinemonster"

for a home theater, it would be better to build each half in its own cab in order to have two sources.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/T...ec%20sheet.pdf

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #9 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I WANT TWO B&C 21" WOOFER TH!!!"

have a look at the danley "cinemonster"

for a home theater, it would be better to build each half in its own cab in order to have two sources.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/T...ec%20sheet.pdf

this!!!! you think i could build something like this? i just dont see anybody having the time and patience to clone a design like that. i could build it, but i got to have blue prints. this is bragging rights! i wonder if that horn is only good for ht. for being dual 21"s... you would think it would have higher spl and lower frequency response. i dont know math and specs... i just know how to build it an enclosure.
speckled hen is offline  
post #10 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
is this the 21" woofer danley uses in the cinemonster?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCF-LF21N451...#ht_3703wt_932
speckled hen is offline  
post #11 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 12:26 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 807
there may be some designs that are simpler and give equal performance.

what are your size limitations?

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #12 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

there may be some designs that are simpler and give equal performance.

what are your size limitations?


ceiling is 12'... room is 22(w) X 40 (l)

i dont care if i have to build a false wall to hide the th..... i want massive sound!
speckled hen is offline  
post #13 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 12:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Why do you want a TH so badly? You realize that a massive IB or an array of enclosures can be louder, it will just cost more in drivers. A TH isn't a magic bullet to be loud. Every few months we go through this.
notnyt is online now  
post #14 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Why do you want a TH so badly? You realize that a massive IB or an array of enclosures can be louder, it will just cost more in drivers. A TH isn't a magic bullet to be loud. Every few months we go through this.

why? because everybody has seen a wall of speakers. i want something unconventional... massive, well thought out design
speckled hen is offline  
post #15 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 01:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Ah, so you want uniqueness over sound quality then.

Good luck. Iron's law always wins

I believe Ricci designed a horn for an 18, however it was for an LMS ULTRA, it was called the Gjallerhorn or something similar. But since that's been done before, it probably isn't interesting.
notnyt is online now  
post #16 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 02:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flyng_fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 3,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 71
notnyt knows what he's talking about, he's been doing this quite a while. He's trying to help you out whether you want to think so or not.

If I recall correctly, the larger drivers don't work well in tapped horns because they unload earlier than the smaller drivers and then you lose their advantage.

The Danley DTS-10 has dual 12's that reach down to 12hz or so before they roll off. AKAIK that's about as good as it gets in a tapped horn.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
flyng_fool is offline  
post #17 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 04:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
maxcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
That cinemonster plays loud, but not lower than the various smaller horns and tapped horns like the THT or F20. On the spec sheet, Danley recommends a 20Hz high-pass filter.

That subwoofer driver on ebay has a freq range spec of 30 - 1KHz.

How low do you want your sub to play?

-Max
maxcooper is offline  
post #18 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 05:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
maxmercy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by speckled hen View Post

how bout i build a wall of cocks? that sound very interesting to you? long throw stroking pistons...

Nice.....you have a design, posted above. Build it and measure/listen and report back...

JSS
maxmercy is offline  
post #19 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 06:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

some have tested that driver and got very different t/s measurements than e.d., so much so that a few folks have looked for other options.

if the driver inputs are not correct, the modelled horn output will not be correct.

as a secondary matter, your horn has very little expansion from throat to mouth, so it isn't really getting what most would call horn loading. compare what you have there with a ported cab and you are probably only picking up a couple db or so.

In addition to these comments, I worry about the horn being choked off by the driver... looks like there's not a lot of room in there, which may lead to audible noises when you crank it. Then again, I tend to go overkill in my designs to avoid that.

Sorry, but I'd be looking for another project. There are a few horn designs already built and proven out there... just a matter of looking for the one that suits your needs best.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #20 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
here's a build design from a an ed rep... im digging the tall design. not sure if this is a total good design. no hornsresp... not sure how he came up with these calculations. maybe y'all can chime in.

2 - 64" x 21 1/2"
1- 52 1/2" x 18 1/2"
1 - 49 1/4" x 20"
2 - 65 1/2" x 23"
1 - 65 1/2" x 20"
1 - 64" x 18 1/2"
2 - 23" x 21 1/2"
2 - 21 1/2" x 20"
2 - 53" x 18 1/2"
1 - 18 1/2" x 8 1/2"
1 - 18 1/2" x 8 1/8"
1 - 18 1/2" x 7"
1 - 18 1/2" x 6 5/8"















speckled hen is offline  
post #21 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
a build very similar to these plans.... looks pretty simple. an easy build.



speckled hen is offline  
post #22 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 10:42 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 612
What's stopping you, hen? Go for it.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #23 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

What's stopping you, hen? Go for it.


whats stopping me? agony of defeat. i dont want to build this and it sound like arse. wish buddy wouldve used hornresp. i have no idea how he got this calculations
speckled hen is offline  
post #24 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 612
Just seems like a lot of work for only 20hz extension.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #25 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
speckled hen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Just seems like a lot of work for only 20hz extension.


how does yours rpl-18 rig sound with music and ht?
speckled hen is offline  
post #26 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
brandonnash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: murfreesboro, tn
Posts: 3,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Subscribed. The guy I gave my 19ov.2 to hasn't used it in the nearly 2 years he has had it and told me its just taking up space. May have to go get it from him if someone comes up with a decent design.
brandonnash is offline  
post #27 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 01:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 394
I am familiar with this woofer as well, I remember thinking of a TH for the driver and it was just too big for any low end. 20hz never even crossed my mind.
MKtheater is online now  
post #28 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 01:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am familiar with this woofer as well, I remember thinking of a TH for the driver and it was just too big for any low end. 20hz never even crossed my mind.

Yeah - it's a decent TH driver if the parameters can be trusted, but it likes some space for sure. I can get a decent looking quick and dirty 15Hz sim around 800-850L out of it.

But if the specs are off, all bets are off.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #29 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 01:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Steve_Vai_rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The land of Ice and Snow
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I'm doing a 5-7hz front loaded horn called the Jupiter horn. It's using 4 ftw-21 21" drivers from mach5/ist.

However it is absurdly massive in both size and weight. (16x20x3 feet is what I'm lookin at roughly). And I have no illusions that it could fail miserably and this is an experiment nothing more.

The gallgerhereerr (however its spelt) horn is scary loud and will work with an 18 or 21" driver. I think both the lms ultra and one of the big bc21s were tested with it. You want paint peeling poop your pants loud then go with that. You want low and loud you need a masssssive friggin enclosure (hoffmans iron law) and/or a tonne of displacement. And of course lot of power with a properly setup signal chain (bosso has been all over that for a loooong time now).

How about some kind of performance metric to shoot for. Cause right now you're just pissin in the wind. Ex 16 hz at 135dB. You're hell bent on doing something but right now all you are driving towards is a big waste of money. Slow down and think things through.

Matt

"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live." - George Carlin
Steve_Vai_rules is offline  
post #30 of 51 Old 03-01-2012, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 181
If you want to model with the 190v2 in Winisd input the LE as 20.5mH (Not a typo) and the series resistance as 10 ohms.
Ricci is online now  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off