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Old 03-21-2012, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone here know if DIY speaker building for re-sale is allowed by the original designers/DIY community? I don't mean mass produced, however I'm inquiring for a friend who is a carpenter who builds them in his free time and knows there are a lot of people out there who would want speakers, such as the Jim Holtz Statements but don't have the capability, tools, desire or know-how to build them.

Thanks!
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:08 AM
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I would be interested in such a thing. I think you will need the designers approval.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoko View Post

I would be interested in such a thing. I think you will need the designers approval.

Good to know people on AVS are interested. Jim referred me over to Curt so I am awaiting his approval.

Thanks!
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:28 AM
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I know that Bill has builders in various areas around the country that know his builds. Just ask MKTheater . So it's not completely out of the question.

Good luck!

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Old 03-21-2012, 09:30 AM
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I don't believe legally they have a right to say anything if it's not patented. I'm sure it would ruffle some personal feathers though.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstslamd View Post

I don't believe legally they have a right to say anything if it's not patented. I'm sure it would ruffle some personal feathers though.

I have a lot of respect for the DIY community, so we wouldn't want to do anything that would upset the designers. We will certainly get their permission to build before moving forward.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Well Curt & Jim are fine with us building their cabinet designs to sell! Jon Marsh is fine with his speaker designs being built for sale as well.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:11 PM
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Horaay to the spirit of the DIY community.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:25 PM
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wow. that is shockingly generous. DIY is quite a generous community overall, in fact. good stuff.

gunbunnysoulja - if your carpenter buddy builds some nice Statements cabinets, try to post some pics. i really want to put together a Statements build myself and it's inspiring to see what others with real woodworking skill put together.

unfortuatnely, last time i checked, the mids (i think?) were on backorder from PE. are there alternate sources for the drivers than PE?
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lowpolyjoe View Post

wow. that is shockingly generous. DIY is quite a generous community overall, in fact. good stuff.

gunbunnysoulja - if your carpenter buddy builds some nice Statements cabinets, try to post some pics. i really want to put together a Statements build myself and it's inspiring to see what others with real woodworking skill put together.

unfortuatnely, last time i checked, the mids (i think?) were on backorder from PE. are there alternate sources for the drivers than PE?

I will most definitely be posting pics and hopefully gathering interest on here. I've built them before with a friend and they turned out great! I'm sure the challenge will be the veneer/finishing options. The ones I helped build years ago are still bare. It comes down to personal preference. My friend is a great carpenter so he is excited to build some. I'm not sure what the cost will be as of yet as I know the Statements build isn't as easy as others. Out of all the speakers I have heard to date, the Statements are my favorite.
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:08 PM
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You can make a lot of money from building boxes for people if his finish work is good. Thats typically where most people falter.

Another problem is shipping them safely AND having people not gawk at enormous shipping prices.

Id pay him $600 for a 4cu ft subwoofer box with a veneer to give an idea of prices he could charge.
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:09 PM
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With 3 sheets of 3/4 MDF I wonder how much shipping these would cost?
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:13 PM
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstslamd View Post

I don't believe legally they have a right to say anything if it's not patented. I'm sure it would ruffle some personal feathers though.

They do have the right to object, because the designs are copyrighted. Copyright protects intellectual property as a form of expression; so while they can't prevent someone from making and selling the design, they can prevent them from using their name or design information when advertising it.

So (for example) without Curt and Jed's permission for the Statement design, a woodworker could build and sell the speakers but said woodworker could not claim that they were "Curt and Jed's Statement" design.

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Old 03-21-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbunnysoulja View Post

Does anyone here know if DIY speaker building for re-sale is allowed by the original designers/DIY community? I don't mean mass produced, however I'm inquiring for a friend who is a carpenter who builds them in his free time and knows there are a lot of people out there who would want speakers, such as the Jim Holtz Statements but don't have the capability, tools, desire or know-how to build them.

Thanks!

Siegfried Linkwitz allows resale of his designs as long as any required license ($170 for the Orions, $70 for Plutos) is purchased for each customer.

Don Naples (Wood Artistry LLC) made a hobby business selling the designs for a few years and has since turned it into a profession.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

They do have the right to object, because the designs are copyrighted. Copyright protects intellectual property as a form of expression; so while they can't prevent someone from making and selling the design, they can prevent them from using their name or design information when advertising it.

So (for example) without Curt and Jed's permission for the Statement design, a woodworker could build and sell the speakers but said woodworker could not claim that they were "Curt and Jed's Statement" design.


This is considered a Trademark and they do not have to be registered although it does help out the infringement process.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post


Id pay him $600 for a 4cu ft subwoofer box with a veneer to give an idea of prices he could charge.

You should talk to forum member PassingInterest.

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Old 03-21-2012, 09:56 PM
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You should talk to forum member PassingInterest.

This!
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:45 AM
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Assuming that the designs are free for people to build as DIY efforts, I personally don't see any issue with a carpenter building someone else's enclosure design on commission - they are simply providing a skill and being paid for their time for those who cannot do it themselves.

Setting up a production line of sorts and attempting to speculatively market and sell them is a different thing.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:17 PM
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Anyone know of such a builder in the So. Cal area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbunnysoulja View Post

Does anyone here know if DIY speaker building for re-sale is allowed by the original designers/DIY community? I don't mean mass produced, however I'm inquiring for a friend who is a carpenter who builds them in his free time and knows there are a lot of people out there who would want speakers, such as the Jim Holtz Statements but don't have the capability, tools, desire or know-how to build them.

Thanks!

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Old 03-22-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post

This!

+2, PI has some MAAAAADDDDD wood working skills!
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:34 PM
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Here's who Bill uses for his cabs.

http://billfitzmaurice.com/Builders.html


dbl

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Old 03-25-2012, 01:27 PM
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I am extremely interested. If your friend does indeed build them PLEASE let me know! Willing to buy first set of statements with the center channel design as well.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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For the Statements, we will just be doing the Cabinets and you would be responsible for installing the drivers/cross-over. We can do the Statements, Mini Statements, Statement Monitors, and Statement Center.

They will be available for local pick-up in Central FL, or will freight anywhere in the U.S. for actual shipping cost.

Not sure on price yet, but getting a list of interested people now.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:24 AM
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Show us the goods. That'll get the juices flowing.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post

I am extremely interested. If your friend does indeed build them PLEASE let me know! Willing to buy first set of statements with the center channel design as well.

Are you looking for completed speakers, or just the cabinets? Per Curt & Jim, they welcome us to build the cabinets, and the owner would install the crossover and drivers.

Are you looking for an unfinished set, painted, or veneered?

Also, I'm assuming you want the ported version. Are you fine with the base stand the Statements stand on with a downfiring port, as seen here (this is Jim Holtz's pair):

http://speakerdesignworks.com/sitebu...07-385x531.jpg

Will be picking up the MDF today to start the first pair for sale so the forum members can see the quality of work my friend does. He still hasn't come up with a baseline price as of yet, however since a lot of time goes into the Statements, I'm assuming an unfinished pair not including the drivers and crossover will be around $1,000 + actual freight shipping cost. Veneered will be an option as well.

Statement Center, Mini Statements, and Statement Monitor cabinets can also be built.

Many consider the Statement speakers to rival production counterparts that cost $8,000-$10,000.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:11 AM
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The downfiring port always bothered me a bit since it requires a stand that allows the port to breathe. I've seen some people do some nice stuff with metal work to give the required hight boost, but i probably wouldn't be able to do that personaly. I think i read that you can substitute a rear-firing port without any penalty?

In the picture in the link provided above, the stand looks pretty sealed to me - do you know if it's open in the back to let the port breathe or is that a rear-firing build shown? Or a sealed enclosure build?
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:17 AM
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Given the way I put my Statements together (pre-veneered cherry) mitered 45's on the exposed corners, 1.5" thick baffle, aggressively scalloped speaker openings, all dado and glue construction, 4 coats of poly etc... you could be looking at $1500 in labor. They are labor intensive to say the least.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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Old 03-28-2012, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowpolyjoe View Post

The downfiring port always bothered me a bit since it requires a stand that allows the port to breathe. I've seen some people do some nice stuff with metal work to give the required hight boost, but i probably wouldn't be able to do that personaly. I think i read that you can substitute a rear-firing port without any penalty?

In the picture in the link provided above, the stand looks pretty sealed to me - do you know if it's open in the back to let the port breathe or is that a rear-firing build shown? Or a sealed enclosure build?


The one in the picture is a down-firing port. There is a gap between the bottom of the speaker, and the top of the base for the port to breathe. Perhaps it's hard to tell since it's all painted black.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Given the way I put my Statements together (pre-veneered cherry) mitered 45's on the exposed corners, 1.5" thick baffle, aggressively scalloped speaker openings, all dado and glue construction, 4 coats of poly etc... you could be looking at $1500 in labor. They are labor intensive to say the least.

I saw your build thread on audioholics and your finished product is absolutely gorgeous. Any specific reason you decided for the rear port?
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