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post #31 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That's what constitutes a crossover.
I wouldn't say that you have, so no apology necessary. I'm pleased that they've worked so well for you.

Oh ok, I thought the big deal about crossovers was taming the response and some believe is what makes a speaker better than others. I don't but that is another story.

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post #32 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 01:30 PM
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well an improperly matched XO will definitely mess up a speaker's response. I can certainly speak from experience with my coax surround build after trying two stock XO's and then a custom designed XO in the end which made it a COMPLETELY different speaker

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post #33 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

well an improperly matched XO will definitely mess up a speaker's response. I can certainly speak from experience with my coax surround build after trying two stock XO's and then a custom designed XO in the end which made it a COMPLETELY different speaker

I understand that happens as well. You can fix the response with EQ but it can mess with dynamics and other things too.

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post #34 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Oh ok, I thought the big deal about crossovers was taming the response and some believe is what makes a speaker better than others. I don't but that is another story.

You do have to optimize the filters to the drivers/cab for best results, which is the case with ours. In addition to low pass, bandpass and high pass functions you also can incorporate notch filters and level matching, if your goal is to realize the flattest response possible. That's a worthwhile goal if you need flat response because you don't have DSP. But if you do have DSP frankly it's just a waste of parts.

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post #35 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You do have to optimize the filters to the drivers/cab for best results, which is the case with ours. In addition to low pass, bandpass and high pass functions you also can incorporate notch filters and level matching, if your goal is to realize the flattest response possible. That's a worthwhile goal if you need flat response because you don't have DSP. But if you do have DSP frankly it's just a waste of parts.

I agree because I got these dialed in for sure! My JBL's were great but the DR's add that high frequency sizzle. They might not sound as big but they come very close with more dynamics and detail to boot! The line array tweets always fool me into thinking it will get harsh but never does. Makes me want to try the DR-280's but I don't need the extra output or extension since these are working great as is.

I guess what I was talking about crossovers was that some speakers don't need DSP so the crossover work is more extensive and yours were built with DSP in mind! Have you ever tweaked the crossover so you don't need DSP to make these plug and play? I know they were not designed that way but I bet many would try them out for HT if they were as easy as plug them into amp and done! Not many people like the tweaking but being on the DIY forums does change things.

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post #36 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Have you ever tweaked the crossover so you don't need DSP to make these plug and play?

No, and I probably never will. IMO anyone serious enough about HT to use DRs won't blink at a $299 DSP. Besides, flat is only flat until you put the cabs in a room, at which point they're no longer flat and you need DSP anyway.

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post #37 of 46 Old 04-12-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Besides, flat is only flat until you put the cabs in a room, at which point they're no longer flat and you need DSP anyway.

So true!

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post #38 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 07:44 AM
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Bill-
Personally, it's not the $300 DSP that is of issue. It's the measurement gear and moreso, the knowledge to use the tools and make it right.
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post #39 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

Bill-
Personally, it's not the $300 DSP that is of issue. It's the measurement gear and moreso, the knowledge to use the tools and make it right.

It's hardly rocket science, and if you want flat in-room response with any cabs it's the only way you'll get it. Besides, a $40 mic with an auto RTA capable DSP will do all the heavy lifting if you're not into in depth measuring.

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post #40 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's hardly rocket science, and if you want flat in-room response with any cabs it's the only way you'll get it. Besides, a $40 mic with an auto RTA capable DSP will do all the heavy lifting if you're not into in depth measuring.

Well anyone with a good sub system will have measuring gear already so like me it was a no brainer to try these out. I am glad I did! The only speakers I would want to hear to replace these are the DR-280's with 3012HO driver and the Danley synergy horns! Oh yeah, and maybe a ribbon line array like the Selah symmetrica. Just look at the cost of those speakers in comparison!

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post #41 of 46 Old 04-13-2012, 06:48 PM
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DIY Synergy like Paul Spencer..........idea.

I am thinkingof trying to do a DR250for outdoor use with a small built in amp. I would mainly just use it for playing music across a basketball court. I was thinking of maybe the Jack12 but not sure if 50 watts would be very loud. Then you aded these DR's to your HT and now I really want to try some for my HT.

Selah's are great looking combos. I am having to save up for my ultimate LA but in the mean time these DR00 and up seem perfect for me now.
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post #42 of 46 Old 04-14-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

DIY Synergy like Paul Spencer..........idea.

I am thinkingof trying to do a DR250for outdoor use with a small built in amp. I would mainly just use it for playing music across a basketball court. I was thinking of maybe the Jack12 but not sure if 50 watts would be very loud. Then you aded these DR's to your HT and now I really want to try some for my HT.

Selah's are great looking combos. I am having to save up for my ultimate LA but in the mean time these DR00 and up seem perfect for me now.

My DR200's have been a pleasure to listen to so far. So far I like them for movies, and love them for music. I've noticed that during the louder scenes on movies that the dialog seems to get a bit difficult to hear. Not sure whether or not it's the lack of a center channel, or poor room acoustics. I'm guessing acoustics. Overall they sound really good. I think with some room treatments and some tweaking they will sound amazing.

I did try playing the Mass Effect 3 demo for PS3 at reference, and there were a couple scenes that shocked me with the sheer power of the DR's. Explosions that just seemed to send a shock wave through the room. Really gave me an idea of what these babies are capable of.

Keep in mind, This is after only having an hour or two of listening time at higher volumes in a completely untreated room.

I am having some buzzing from the first one I built that seems to be coming from one of the tweeters at the top of the array, but only at high volume levels, and only at certain frequencies. I haven't got around to trying to diagnose the problem yet. Bad tweet? Possibly a leak? It seems to happen in the 70-100hz range roughly, so I'm guessing it's not the tweeter itself. I'll have to sit down and spend some time with some test tones and get a better idea.

I will chime in again after I've had more time to enjoy and tweak. The verdict so far? For around $250 a piece, I have trouble imagining anything that can outperform these. If you can build them yourself, (or know a kindhearted woodworker who will do it for you.....P.I? ) they're worth the effort for sure.
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post #43 of 46 Old 06-03-2012, 10:46 AM
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Hey just wondering how much these were to build a peice. I know on bills site it mentions $650 but I didnt know if that was cost per speaker or total for both.

I have been doing alot of reading about speaker design and horns in general I find to be very fascinating.

I even really like those frugal horn idea and may build some of those for my office/music room and then something like this is more interesting for my family/theater room.

It would be really nice to get these a little smaller to fit in my entertainment center but I may go with something like the fonkens that are EnABLED. Especially cause they are so cheap to make and I dont think my wife would like their size.....I need a theater/game room badly

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post #44 of 46 Old 06-03-2012, 12:21 PM
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Hey just wondering how much these were to build a peice. I know on bills site it mentions $650

It does? News to me. You can do them for less than half that.

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post #45 of 46 Old 06-04-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I spent roughly $450 for the pair. I bought the less expensive driver, so saved some there. I've really been enjoying them. One of these days, I'll be building one for center channel duty. Just waiting to get budgets all situated.

If you go to the trouble of building them, (and they are a lot of trouble, no doubt,) and you have access to some form of EQ, they are incredible bang-for-the-buck speakers for music or movies
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post #46 of 46 Old 06-04-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

It would be really nice to get these a little smaller to fit in my entertainment center but I may go with something like the fonkens that are EnABLED. Especially cause they are so cheap to make and I dont think my wife would like their size.....I need a theater/game room badly

I have four of Bill Fitzmaurice's Wedgehorn 6 speakers that I am going to use as surrounds. I manually entered in the frequency response into REW and then EQ'd them flat with a few filters. You loose a little efficiency but I estimate they are still at about 94 dB/1 watt. I have been listening to them in my office this way for a few weeks now. They really sound good and are very dynamic. They extend to 100 Hz and might work for you as mains since they are smaller than the DR200's. I'm not sure what the maximum seating distance recommendation would be.


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