LMS 5400 Ultra xmax/xmech measurements and non-linearity - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 334
they've already shortened the spider support in the new version, just needs a taller surround i reckon.
notnyt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 03:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 3,263
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves View Post

I agree with bosso, the maximum output difference is small, but a difference is a difference. The driver is still a top contender, but it not the "ultimate" driver it has been made out to be. It has its limitations and it is too bad the specs don't match up with reality, it just goes to hurt the companies image and reputation.

Any other contenders for the "ultimate driver" title. Maybe from manufactures' that actually deliver on their specs? I only ask because, like all of you, if I am going to drop top dollar on a sub, I want it to perform as such. (insert lame analogy) In car terms, it's like pitting a Italia vs a GTR. If I can get virtually the same performance for HALF the price, that would suit my taste just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves View Post

One thing I will say is the TS parameters have always been very close to spec and consistent on TC drivers in general, so box requirements have not changed, what has is the amount of power required to reach Xmax under 20hz, one does not need 4kw+ RMS amps for these drivers, at least if you want any reasonable margin of safety so as not to blow up the driver when a large ULF signal comes along.

At <$800 per LG FP14K Clone, why would anyone get something less potent? Pound for pound (watt per $) I haven't seen any other better buy. In addition, I've yet to see any reaibility issues from the clones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Or better still, they need to put a 5th slug in the motor, a couple more windings, drop the basket an inch deeper and make the VC pole an inch taller and the dual spiders slightly farther apart. Which would make it a truly standup product with what would probably be 100mm p-p and no dented cones from it impacting stuff directly. Now THAT is a product I would buy without any hesitation, if anyone cares to make\\sell such

You make it sound so simple. *Disclaimer* I'm not an acoustical engineer nor have I physically built any drivers, but seems like this would have been tried already if it was that easy... 4" Peak-to-Peak... That does sound enticing. Actually sounds like a bit of a freak show. I don't care who you are, to see that in action would be impressive.

 

popalock is offline  
post #63 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 08:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
The old aurasound NS18 should at least deserve a look when talking about ultimate sub drivers, if only because it is a very low distortion motor design and otherwise very well built. xmax a bit "low" by LMS-U standards at 25mm (not looking quite as low after this thread), but then last I looked (if they are still available) price was just over half the LMS-U. Two would easily match displacement for roughly the same cost and arguably lower distortion (would love to see the measurements). As always, two have advantages in smoothing room modes, disadvantages in box size/concealability etc.

Bigus is offline  
post #64 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 09:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
The NS18 is back to about the same price as the LMS-U, $905 + shipping so depending on were you live they could actually be more expensive. They are also not in stock and the return date keeps getting moved back by Madisound to May now.

The sale price for the NS18 was excellent but according to Madisound that's over.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is offline  
post #65 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 12:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 3,263
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigus View Post

The old aurasound NS18 should at least deserve a look when talking about ultimate sub drivers, if only because it is a very low distortion motor design and otherwise very well built. xmax a bit "low" by LMS-U standards at 25mm (not looking quite as low after this thread), but then last I looked (if they are still available) price was just over half the LMS-U. Two would easily match displacement for roughly the same cost and arguably lower distortion (would love to see the measurements). As always, two have advantages in smoothing room modes, disadvantages in box size/concealability etc.

Thanks. How attuned is TC Sounds to their consumer base? I'm sure there has to be some company reps on this forum. Would love to see them weigh in. If this issue get's enough attention I'm sure it could have people second guessing their "initially perceived" bulletproof purchase.

I didn't intend to derail the topic when I asked for other sub options. The Ultra is still my preference, just interested to hear other opinions. Especially now, knowing the published spec is on the liberal side...

 

popalock is offline  
post #66 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 12:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 566
Want 4 inches peak to peak? Look no further.
LL

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
post #67 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 01:02 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigus View Post

The old aurasound NS18 should at least deserve a look when talking about ultimate sub drivers, if only because it is a very low distortion motor design and otherwise very well built. xmax a bit "low" by LMS-U standards at 25mm (not looking quite as low after this thread), but then last I looked (if they are still available) price was just over half the LMS-U. Two would easily match displacement for roughly the same cost and arguably lower distortion (would love to see the measurements). As always, two have advantages in smoothing room modes, disadvantages in box size/concealability etc.

We should not compare actual measured x-max to specs of another company. Who is to say that when someone gets the NS18 they measure 22mm or something. We need to compare apples to apples.
MKtheater is offline  
post #68 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 01:32 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Want 4 inches peak to peak? Look no further.

Realz

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #69 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 01:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 4,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

The NS18 is back to about the same price as the LMS-U, $905 + shipping ... The sale price for the NS18 was excellent but according to Madisound that's over.

Well then that sucks. Of course, I wasn't in the market during the sale, nor am I now, so perhaps when I am in the future they will run another sale for me.

Bigus is offline  
post #70 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Want 4 inches peak to peak? Look no further.

and low efficiency above 40hz and power compression... pass..
notnyt is offline  
post #71 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 02:25 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 638
That's why one gets mains with balls.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #72 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

That's why one gets mains with balls.

I believe I have that, however 4 15s aren't going to compete with 8 18s at 40hz. I prefer crossing at 90 for music and 80 for ht.
notnyt is offline  
post #73 of 76 Old 03-27-2012, 09:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Funky Waves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Halfmoon Bay BC, Canada
Posts: 328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

The NS18 is back to about the same price as the LMS-U, $905 + shipping so depending on were you live they could actually be more expensive. They are also not in stock and the return date keeps getting moved back by Madisound to May now.

The sale price for the NS18 was excellent but according to Madisound that's over.

The NS18 was/is(I guess now that there coming back) a great driver, I have one beside me, quick rough Xmech measurement shows a good 35mm each way anyway, could very well meet spec with a more accurate measurment. Build quality on them was great, some of the best I have seen, feels/looks like a ~$1000 driver. Downfalls are; lowish power handling, low sensitivity, and relatively large box requirements.

Nathan Funk
Funk Audio
Funky Waves is offline  
post #74 of 76 Old 09-21-2012, 05:48 PM
Member
 
Fackamato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What driver is this?

edit: Was supposed to quote beastaudio


Shiva-X, 2x Tempest-X, 2x Maelstrom-X2, MiniDSP etc

Fackamato is offline  
post #75 of 76 Old 09-21-2012, 05:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
edoggrc51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fontana, CA
Posts: 1,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fackamato View Post

What driver is this?
edit: Was supposed to quote beastaudio
XXX's
edoggrc51 is offline  
post #76 of 76 Old 12-27-2013, 12:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jmcomp124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I decided to take some measurements on some of my LMS ultra drivers, as they did not seem to be reaching the advertised excursion levels.


With the driver free air, I was able to see that on the inward stroke, it would easily hit the spider support which is just over 1.5" from the cone. However, on the outward stroke, I was not seeing much more than 1.25" of excursion.


Is the stroke just non linear at this range?


My measurement system was crude, but fairly effective. I set a measuring tape on a fixed surface and aimed it towards the center of the driver. I then took a pencil with a soft eraser and marked it, so that I could see where on the measuring tape the pencil would touch the cone when the sub wasn't moving. I set it up so that it was at 3" on the tape. Next, I played a low frequency test tone so that I could hear the cone was tapping on the spider support. I slowly moved the pencil, eraser side first, towards the moving cone to see where it would impact. From these tests, I was unable to see outward excursion of over 1.25"


xmax on this driver is listed at 38mm with xmech being just slightly beyond that.


Thoughts?


Video of test here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFH0xz8b_g&hd=1


Measurement of inward xmax showing over 1.5" before xmech:




Resurrecting this thread after a year! A clever way of measuring the excursion and thank you for sharing your simple yet very good idea and the beauty is in the simplicity. I did measure the excursion on a movie (one of my all time favorites Finding Nemo when the Pelican goes between the sails right before Darla taps the fish tank). I used your technique and it measured 1.5 inches one way. I replaced my Old Crown CE4000s with dual Yamaha P7000s and the amp was very close to clipping (just not yet as I know just 3dB over, the clip lights just begin to come on). If the momentum of the push from the driver had caused the pencil to go a little bit further than the actual excursion, that may explain how it showed 1.5 inches which is 38mm. Is it because I have an older LMS 5400 Ultra (purchased in 2007)? BTW, my box is around 8 cu ft effective with dual Passive 18" readiators. Are the newer LMS 5400 Ultra 18 inches sold in parts express any different from the model I have? If so, what are the differences? Still happy and love playing with the woofers whenever on vacation. Happy Holidays!
Regards,
-Jai
jmcomp124 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Tags
Tc Sounds Lms Ultra 5400

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off