Behringer EP4000 breaker poping... - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 33 Old 03-28-2012, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 96
I'm hoping someone can help me out.

All of a sudden the breaker on the back of the EP4000 popped.
The music level was very low.

Now every time I turn the EP4000 on, the breaker in the back of the EP4000 pops. When I turn on the EP4000 it hums for less than a second and pop goes the breaker.

What can be causing it to trip.

I disconnected everything but the power cord and still pops.
The knobs in the front are at 0 when I turn it on and pop!

The EP was barely hot.

Thanks
Fatshaft is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old 03-28-2012, 08:14 PM
Senior Member
 
michaelddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
You've done some good troubleshooting so far by disconnecting everything but the power cord. What was the amp doing at the time of the first shutdown? I.E. were you watching a movie at full blast? Playing test tones? Do you/did you smell any burning coming from the amp? How old is the amp? The EP4000 is a solid, old-school, lead-sled. It's possible something inside just upped and died, but more probable that an external influence may have damaged or killed it. What was plugged into it? Ohm load? Have you tested that speaker? Maybe the amp fried the voicecoil in whatever it was powering and the protection circuitry didn't act in enough time to save the amp. I'm just guesing here. There are many things that could've gone wrong. More info will help with the diagnosis.
michaelddd is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 03-28-2012, 09:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East side of NW Cascades
Posts: 2,592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 303
The bad news is, the amplifier is broken and needs repairing or replacement.

A working speaker is a closed circuit (i.e it conducts electricity).
When they blow, the circuit is opened in 99.999% of the cases and nothing more.

There is only one thing worse for an amplifier than a closed-circuit, a direct short-circuit.
Amplifiers actually like open-circuits.

So unless the coil fused in a direct path across the coil or same within the filter electronics (highly unlikely), then it is unlikely that the speaker failing cause the amp any harm.

Assuming the terminals haven't been shorted from loose wiring or liquid poured into it...

The only other thing that amplifiers don't like is excessive heat, or power surges from the powerline or excessive power flow through the device from heavy usage.

Beyond that it simply had a general component failure, independant of the actual usage of the device; bad Quality-Control perhaps.
BassThatHz is online now  
post #4 of 33 Old 03-28-2012, 09:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
WiSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Complete shot in the dark here, but it may be a shorted output transistor. Maybe one let go and now the rails are shorting tripping the breaker.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

WiSounds is offline  
post #5 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 96
The amp was connected to 4x MFW-15, 2 ohms per channel.
I was listening to music at very low volume and it just popped.

I let it cool down overnight (it wasn't even hot when it happened) connected it this am and it popped again immediately.

I now my speakers are OK cause I then connected them to a BASH plate amp 500 and continued listening to music yesterday night with no problems at all.

Who do I call to try and get it fixed? I'm in Canada
It's only a year old and have not used it the last 8 months cause I'm redoing my Home Theatre.

I can't believe it failed already.
Fatshaft is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 07:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
laugsbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 2,583
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

Complete shot in the dark here, but it may be a shorted output transistor. Maybe one let go and now the rails are shorting tripping the breaker.

This is what the repair guy said happened to my EP-4000...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Who do I call to try and get it fixed? I'm in Canada.

Sorry to hear about your amp Fatshaft. I had the exact same problem. I started with the Behringer web-site and really didn't find much help in my area. Next, I searched for Amp Repair and located a guy in my home town who worked on Behringer Guitar Amps and music equipment.

I am in for $180 bucks to repair my unit...
laugsbach is online now  
post #7 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,902
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 541
I didnt think it was good to run the ep4k at 2 ohm stereo either???

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 12:28 PM
Senior Member
 
michaelddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
http://www.behringer.com/assets/EP2000_P0A38_M_EN.pdf

The EP4000 is rated down to 2 ohms per channel, stereo, but it's never a good idea to run an amp at the limit all the time. At 2 ohms stereo, loud passages will require the amp to process huge amounts of current. And while the EP series are very reliable workhorses, they're no $20K touring company PA amp. Most probably, some output devices got fried due to too low of an ohm load/too much current.

The EP4000 is stupid cheap for how much power it puts out. I'd have bought two and paralleled two subs, mono on each amp for a 4-ohm mono load. Should be able to do that all day long.
michaelddd is offline  
post #9 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelddd View Post

The EP4000 is stupid cheap for how much power it puts out. I'd have bought two and paralleled two subs, mono on each amp for a 4-ohm mono load. Should be able to do that all day long.

I don't understand your logic here.
If I parallel 2 subs that would give me 2ohm load.
Sorry just trying to understand.

I'm upset that it let go on me already...I used it only 6 months out of the year cause the other 6 months it sat in it's box cause I was redoing my HT Room.

PLUS, I called the store I bought it from... I bought it on March 12th last year and they don't want to honor the warranty cause it's past a few days!

Anyway I had already done the fan swap thingie so I'm sure it would've voided the warranty.

Does anyone have any used EP2500 or EP4000 to sell me?
I'd like to buy 2 of them.
I'll connect my subs in series and drive them bridged on a 8ohm load.

Thanks all
Fatshaft is offline  
post #10 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 04:45 PM
Senior Member
 
michaelddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
That totally blows that they won't honor the warranty at only two weeks past the expiration date. That's just bad business. Two MONTHS, sure. But a couple of weeks, for a cheap product...it's not worth losing business over. Which I'm hoping they've LOST with you. I wouldn't go back there.

I guess I should've worded it more accurately. Your subs are 4 ohm, not 8 ohm, correct? My bad.

You could connect two subs in series for an 8-ohm load. Do that with the other pair as well. Now you have two 8-ohm loads. Run those in parallel, in mono on the amp for a 4-ohm load. You'd be sharing 2,400 watts b/t the four drivers...nothing to sneeze at by any means.

Now, this series/parallel wiring isn't optimal but it's done all the time and would work just fine.
michaelddd is offline  
post #11 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,598
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Just take it to a electronics shop and have them fix it. I have 8 ep's and they've never been turned off in 5 years. Running perfect, your situation sucks but yours, is not the norm with the ep line.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is online now  
post #12 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 05:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East side of NW Cascades
Posts: 2,592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 303
I've put 800 hours on my EP4k in 4-ohm bridged (or dual 2-ohm) and it does just fine; sounds like you got a lemon.
BassThatHz is online now  
post #13 of 33 Old 03-29-2012, 05:58 PM
Senior Member
 
michaelddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have an EP4000 that I've run for two years with a small DJ setup. It drives two crappy 18" ported subs, 8 ohms per channel. The drivers are Neos and very efficient so they don't need a ton of power. True, it's no real "load test" but I've pounded that amp outdoors in 105-degree ambient heat and it's never given me a lick of trouble. See what it would cost to fix. If it's less than half the cost of buying a new one, fix it. That's what I'd do.
michaelddd is offline  
post #14 of 33 Old 03-30-2012, 10:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rlj5242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Southaven, MS
Posts: 3,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
My EP-2500 did the same thing. It was a few months past warranty and I had done the fan mod but the fan wasn't turning on reliably. Probably my fault. So I called the closest authorized repair facility in St. Louis. I explained my situation and he said it would be cheaper to buy a new one. I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Just take it to a electronics shop and have them fix it. I have 8 ep's and they've never been turned off in 5 years. Running perfect, your situation sucks but yours, is not the norm with the ep line.

I kept the old one in case I found a good repair place. Turns out there's a guy near me that fixes blown amps as a hobby. His normal expertise are Memphis Audio and other, similarly designed car amps. After chatting about a Memphis amp he was fixing for me, I mentioned my Behringer. He said he had been looking for a pro amp to learn how to fix. Well, it took him a few weeks to trace the problem down to a few blown MOSFETS on the output side of one channel. He replaced them and it now works. It was only a few dollars worth of parts but I "tipped" him an extra $20. He learned on my amp and I have a repaired amp. We both came out ahead.

Long story to get to this - he will happily fix these at a reasonable cost but I'm sure the shipping to Memphis would be a LOT for you Canadian guys.
rlj5242 is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old 03-30-2012, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelddd View Post

You could connect two subs in series for an 8-ohm load. Do that with the other pair as well. Now you have two 8-ohm loads. Run those in parallel, in mono on the amp for a 4-ohm load. You'd be sharing 2,400 watts b/t the four drivers...nothing to sneeze at by any means.

And in doing this, each channel is effectively driving a 2 ohm load.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #16 of 33 Old 03-30-2012, 12:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

And in doing this, each channel is effectively driving a 2 ohm load.

A9X,

I wonder if he actually meant in say run it in bridged mode for the 4 ohm load (just using the word mono instead of bridged).

James
exojam is offline  
post #17 of 33 Old 03-30-2012, 12:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

A9X,

I wonder if he actually meant in say run it in bridged mode for the 4 ohm load (just using the word mono instead of bridged).

James

It doesn't work any other way: two 4R in series, to get 8R. Two lots of that wired in parallel gets 4R. In mono/bridged you have a net 4R load. One pair on each channel has an 8R load/ch.

Paralleling a pair of 4R drivers/ch gets a 2R/ch load. There aren't any other combinations. So criticising a 2R/ch load and then advising a 4R bridged load makes no sense as they are functionally identical.

Edit: EP2500 spec is 2400W, 4R bridged.
LL
A9X-308 is offline  
post #18 of 33 Old 03-30-2012, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

It doesn't work any other way: two 4R in series, to get 8R. Two lots of that wired in parallel gets 4R. In mono/bridged you have a net 4R load. One pair on each channel has an 8R load/ch.

Paralleling a pair of 4R drivers/ch gets a 2R/ch load. There aren't any other combinations. So criticising a 2R/ch load and then advising a 4R bridged load makes no sense as they are functionally identical.

A9X,

I cannot disagree with your information but where did the criticising part come into play?

James
exojam is offline  
post #19 of 33 Old 03-30-2012, 12:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

A9X,

I cannot disagree with your information but where did the criticising part come into play?

James

Post 8.

"The EP4000 is rated down to 2 ohms per channel, stereo, but it's never a good idea to run an amp at the limit all the time. At 2 ohms stereo, loud passages will require the amp to process huge amounts of current."
A9X-308 is offline  
post #20 of 33 Old 03-30-2012, 12:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
exojam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 2,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Post 8.

"The EP4000 is rated down to 2 ohms per channel, stereo, but it's never a good idea to run an amp at the limit all the time. At 2 ohms stereo, loud passages will require the amp to process huge amounts of current."

Fare enough.

James
exojam is offline  
post #21 of 33 Old 03-31-2012, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Just wanting to give you all a n update:

Yesterday I called the music store where I bought the EP4000 to complain abit.
I told them that my order was placed on the 12th of March 2011.
They shipped my amp on the 15th.
Delivered to my door on the 21st of March 2011.

I used the amp till end of July...put it back in the box till a week ago because I am redoing my HT Room. I did not use this amp for almost 8 months! I Explained all this to the guy.

They 1st came back and said sorry can't help you. Naturally I told him that I was extremely disappointed and he then came back and said he will talk to his Behringer rep next week and see what they can do.

I also told him that I want to purchase another amp and will not if they don't warranty my unit for just being a couple days over a year.

Anyone have any experience with Behringer?
Are they reasonable with this stuff?

Thanks all...
Fatshaft is offline  
post #22 of 33 Old 04-02-2012, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Well Monday has come and gone now and did not hear from them yet.
They did say Monday or Tuesday!

I'll keep this thread updated in case further down the line someone searches.
I hope Behringer comes through and replaces my unit.
Fatshaft is offline  
post #23 of 33 Old 04-02-2012, 06:54 PM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 207
I'd never recommend 2 ohm operation, yes, many enjoy years of no issues.

2 ohm operation may easily encounter even more demanding loads at certain frequencies. Over time, the design just isn't robust enough to endure.

Like nearly all of us here, I've read a great deal of posts regarding the Berry EP2.5/4k. Many stories just like this one. It's a great amp for the money,...I own two EP4000's.

When asked, I always say the same thing;
Never operate into two ohm loads
Never mod the thermal capability



Good luck

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is online now  
post #24 of 33 Old 04-04-2012, 12:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
omegaslast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
If behringers shouldnt be run at 2ohm stereo/4ohm bridged then that means that you have to run their inuke 6000 at 8ohms on each channel. With most DIY drivers its very hard to present an 8ohm load, especially to each channel...

Want to measure your subwoofers? check out my dummies guide for a step by step process to Room EQ wizard
http://polaraudio.blogspot.com/2012/01/calibration.html
omegaslast is offline  
post #25 of 33 Old 04-04-2012, 12:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gperkins1973's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I run two ohms stereo and although have only tripped the fuse twice with low bass stuff, wouldnt again.
gperkins1973 is offline  
post #26 of 33 Old 04-04-2012, 01:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

When asked, I always say the same thing;
Never operate into two ohm loads

Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Never mod the thermal capability

Agreed. Ensure you replace the fans with the same or better CFM capacity.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #27 of 33 Old 04-04-2012, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Well,

I feel obliged to let everyone know...
Tuesday and Wednesday has come and gone...no call back from my store where I purchased my unit.

So here's the info:
I'll never buy again through them just for this. A few "days" out of warranty and they won't help me? no more business from me...period.

The store is Tom Lee Music in Canada...
I called and spoke with 3 different sales people and none can help me.
This tells me they just don't care

So, today I brought my unit in to a service store near my place and will see how much it costs to get fixed.
will let you know what they say.

sorry for the rant

PS. I'm looking to buy another amp...either a EP2500 or EP4000. Does anyone know where I can purchase one at a good price? New or used

thank you
Fatshaft is offline  
post #28 of 33 Old 04-04-2012, 02:56 PM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 207
NewEgg would be about the cheapest shipped.

All the others are about the same, at about $20-$30 more. Since they're all so close, I'd buy from whichever retailer you would prefer reputation wise.

I always get Muscians Friend, Guitar Center, etc., e-coupons emailed to me. I bought one thru Parts Express the last time, merely because I like the way they do business.


Good luck

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is online now  
post #29 of 33 Old 04-12-2012, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 96
UPDATE!

Tom Lee Music just called me to say that Behringer will honor the warranty and fix my EP4000 amp!
I'm completely surprised I got a call back.

I brought my unit to a qualified technician and after spending a little over an hour with the unit...all the transistors on one channel was blown!

He said it wasn't worth fixing it and also said he did not want to fix it!

I'm totally impressed Behringer stepped up to the plate and have offered to fix my unit under the warranty.

They are supposed to send me a local address here in Montreal to get it fixed. Will keep this thread posted.
Fatshaft is offline  
post #30 of 33 Old 04-12-2012, 04:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
WiSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Very nice.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

WiSounds is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off