Dimensions for sealed 18" sub box - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 679 Old 09-16-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Anyone that did order obviously got their boxes with no problems. I was at the CNC company early last week to pay for a large order of stuff that I helped a different company with. I talked to the CNC programmer about some Baltic birch boxes and how we can order a decent amount of different box sizes without breaking the bank. He's also going to figure out what the largest box is he can get from a sheet of Baltic. I told him it should have a double thick baffle, but that the outer front baffle could be mdf if needed. That would give more Baltic for the box itself. No idea how that's going to turn out right now.
As mtg90 mentioned, I'm going to do everything I can to get some of these listed and moved within the next couple weeks. After that, I'm shutting down the site for a while to stop the ordering on all the other stuff. When that happens, I will have time to take photos of everything, get everything listed as in stock, get all the new items listed, and get many of the items packaged up so they are ready to ship a couple days after the order is put in.
Please understand that right now I'm literally working to get a minimum of 30 speaker kits and subwoofer kits listed. This is probably more than any speaker company in the country.....in my spare time for free. Right now things are very crazy. There's really no way they can't be because this is all just getting started and I'm doing this by myself. So as time allows, I box up some extra things and list them as in stock. But big changes are coming.
There's a good chance that I will list everything as "In Stock" just prior to shutting the site down. Then work at getting everything boxed up, along with all the new items. I'm getting some website help, and along with a few other changes, it's going to be very nice. It's all planned out, but the number of coming is quite large and it simply takes time. A lot of this is being worked on behind the scenes by other AVS forum members.
Of course, if anyone lives near me and wants anything, I have no problem with them stopping by.
If you would like, I can ship you an entire pallet of sub flat packs for pretty cheap along with the shipping boxes if you wanted to help out. biggrin.gif

Thanks Erich for going above and beyond for the community! I know I've offered before, but I will be more than happy to help with anything in the process. I'm just a short drive on 74 if you want help boxing things up.
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post #362 of 679 Old 09-16-2012, 06:25 PM
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Wish I lived closer to you Erich. I help with local builds around my area just for the experience of it and I would jump all over helping you out...

Might still end up getting a few 4.5's from you down the road.
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post #363 of 679 Old 09-16-2012, 08:16 PM
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Erich---Are all of the sub boxes that you have in stock right now the original design (as pictured on the site, with the braces in dado grooves) in MDF? Do any of the 4.5 18" boxes have baffles without a driver hole cutout? And could I get the length dimension of one of the cutouts that are in each of the horizontal braces (to see if my plate amp will fit in that space after I cut the back panel for it)? Thanks.
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post #364 of 679 Old 10-26-2012, 03:02 PM
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I know the site is down for the updates but does anyone one if a dual opposed 18" box is in the works?
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post #365 of 679 Old 10-26-2012, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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No, that would be too big to ship. When the site comes back up, all subwoofer designs will be in stock and ready to go. Some are Baltic birch. biggrin.gif
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post #366 of 679 Old 10-26-2012, 05:17 PM
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Good news Erich!
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post #367 of 679 Old 10-26-2012, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I was at the CNC company yesterday for quite a while discussing the new box designs for the 18" woofers. I already had some of them, and my new design goes together very easy. But I'm also planning on a slightly beefier box that will be done before the site is ready to go.

One question was whether or not the woofer should be recessed flush on the front baffle. Doing that might not be a good idea because most of them need to be recessed nearly 3/4".

My idea was for no recess so the driver screwed into the full 1.5" baffle thickness. Then if someone wanted to recess the driver, maybe another outer baffle could be ordered that was the correct diameter for that specific woofer model.

There's good and bad things about that. The bad: The inner baffle drops into the box so it's flush. The 2nd baffle then glues on that to cover the entire front of the box. Looking at the box from the side, you only see one baffle thickness.....which looks good and normal. But if someone ordered that 3rd layer, it would have to sit on top of the 2nd layer. So looking at the box from the side, you would actually see 2 outer layers. Not sure any one cares about that or not. Because I'm the one doing the roundovers, I would only roundover the outer baffle either way. I would also have to physically check to make sure it fit the woofer because manufacturer specs aren't always right, and I can only do that if I have the woofer here. I can't buy ten 18" woofers. wink.gif

The good thing about mounting the driver over top of the full 1.5" baffle is that one box design might be able to be used for more than one woofer brand. I'm guessing that many 18" drivers are pretty close on their woofer cutout diameter? I really don't know. The new box for the 18's was specifically designed for the 18" TC Sounds. If anyone can gather up some cut out diameters that are verified, then I could have the CNC company cut boxes for 2, maybe 3 models.
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post #368 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 12:49 AM
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If you don't include a third baffle board, those 18" TC drivers will be supported by one 3/4" board. Pretty well unacceptable, ay? Will uncut baffle boards be available for those using 4.5 boxes with 15" drivers?
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post #369 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 12:54 AM
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18.25" and 16.62"
Cut-out for the Sundown Audio ZV3

I would purchase a box for sure, but it may not be worth it for you to cut them since I'm not sure how many people own these.

Another one would be the UXL-18 . Im sure you can find the dimensions around here somewhere.
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post #370 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

If you don't include a third baffle board, those 18" TC drivers will be supported by one 3/4" board. Pretty well unacceptable, ay?

That's why I asked if they should be recessed or sitting on the outer baffle to use the full 1.5". wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #371 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 07:21 AM
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I used the new Dayton HO 18" and have experienced fantastic results. I'm sure it will be a popular choice.

Cutout is 16 and 11/16's"

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-472&utm_source=googleps

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post #372 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I used the new Dayton HO 18" and have experienced fantastic results. I'm sure it will be a popular choice.
Cutout is 16 and 11/16's"
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-472&utm_source=googleps
James

What enclosure size?
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post #373 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But if someone ordered that 3rd layer, it would have to sit on top of the 2nd layer. So looking at the box from the side, you would actually see 2 outer layers. Not sure any one cares about that or not.

If the box is finished -- which I imagine most will be -- then I'm not sure it really matters. However many layers the front turns out to be would be hidden under paint or veneer.

Now, what I really want to know is when the 2.5ish box is going to be ready. biggrin.gif

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post #374 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

What enclosure size?


I ended up ~ 3.5 cubes...sealed. more to protect the driver from over excursion than anything else.

3 to 4.5 is workable for it, though, sealed. Larger, vented.

I would definitely be in the market for some BB cabs. A nice birch cabinet and this driver would be a tremendous value.

James

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post #375 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 08:14 AM
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BTW: The recessed driver deal is overrated imo.

Especially with drivers like the dayton, they look fine, flat on the panel, and if you're REALLY that concerned with aesthetics you're going to put together a decent gill bumped out an inch or so anyway.

Give me a nice beefy mounting surface any day.

78F68D6D-3046-408E-B4ED-05173F59B816-416-0000002F5638D04E.jpg

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post #376 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 08:27 AM
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Last, I think the baltic birch move is very smart.

It's ~20% lighter than MDF (cheaper to ship), stronger, offers improved retention of fasteners, allows for more finishing options and is a better, safer product to work with.

If you're looking to construct a quality DIY project I see no reason to skimp on the quality of the product you're using to construct the cabinet you're going to be placing the driver(s) in.

Excellent move.

James

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post #377 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

That's why I asked if they should be recessed or sitting on the outer baffle to use the full 1.5". wink.gifbiggrin.gif

You could make the rabbet joints for the front baffles deep enough for two 3/4" inner baffles, with the third baffle board being where the second one is now. Of course, that would decrease the interior volume, but that could be overcome by making the enclosure 3/4" deeper.
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post #378 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

You could make the rabbet joints for the front baffles deep enough for two 3/4" inner baffles, with the third baffle board being where the second one is now. Of course, that would decrease the interior volume, but that could be overcome by making the enclosure 3/4" deeper.

I've thought about that, but it gets into other issues. I don't think that can be done because then every 4 cu ft box would get triple thick baffles, which might not be good. And then if someone wants them with no woofer cut outs, the weight would be quite a bit to ship in one box. The extra baffle wouldn't fit on a cut sheet, so dipping into the next piece of wood gets much more expensive.

There won't be as many box options in the future because there's no way for everyone to agree on a definite way to do these larger boxes. That was the main reason why this was put on the back burner months ago. Plus I'm not sure what box size people want for all the other brands that are out there, or any way to test fit one of those other brands without actually buying the woofer. We can't rely on manufacturer specs when a larger quantity of boxes are getting cut. If the manufacturer is wrong, that's an expensive mistake.
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post #379 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 11:12 AM
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Erich,

I'd vote your current approach represents the best mix of compromise; too many options is too much work, adds incremental expense and at the end of the day - not a valuable use of your time and the wonderful service you are attempting to provide to the community. This is the DIY forum; if folks want a cosmetic baffle they can knock one out in an afternoon...


Larry
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post #380 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Last, I think the baltic birch move is very smart.
It's ~30% lighter than MDF (cheaper to ship), stronger, offers improved retention of fasteners, allows for more finishing options and is a better, safer product to work with.

The Baltic birch is the same stuff that is used for the Overnight Sensations, or some of the other kits I helped with. Obviously 3/4" though. It's grade B, which is what most people use, and what used to be sold in HD or Lowes in 5'x5' sheets. There are still some small patches in the outer veneer every now and again. Most of the cabinets look fine with no patches, but it's not a guarantee that there wouldn't be one somewhere. Also, I haven't found real Baltic to be much lighter than mdf, but I haven't compared to the 2 directly.
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post #381 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 12:15 PM
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I've done quite a bit of woodworking and I'm pretty confident with what follows:

13ply 3/4" baltic birch is 2.5lbs per square foot.

3/4" MDF is ~3.125lbs per square foot.

Call it 20%.

Whether it's significant or not is of course subjective, but it surely makes a difference on large cabinets.

My current cabinet was 55 lbs in BB, it would have been about 66 in mdf.

and "B" should be perfectly fine for 95+% of the builds, here.

Again, I agree wholeheartedly with the move.

James

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post #382 of 679 Old 10-29-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I've done quite a bit of woodworking and I'm pretty confident with what follows:
13ply 3/4" baltic birch is 2.5lbs per square foot.
3/4" MDF is ~3.125lbs per square foot.
Call it 20%.
Whether it's significant or not is of course subjective, but it surely makes a difference on large cabinets.
My current cabinet was 55 lbs in BB, it would have been about 66 in mdf.
and "B" should be perfectly fine for 95+% of the builds, here.
Again, I agree wholeheartedly with the move.
James
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

Erich,
I'd vote your current approach represents the best mix of compromise; too many options is too much work, adds incremental expense and at the end of the day - not a valuable use of your time and the wonderful service you are attempting to provide to the community. This is the DIY forum; if folks want a cosmetic baffle they can knock one out in an afternoon...
Larry

+1+1 !

The Lowes by my house offers Baltic Birch in 5 X 5 sheets for sixty eight bucks or so---adding a third baffle for two cabs wouldn't be too much $, and two inner baffles for the driver is mandatory IMO (I would add it if it wasn't stock on the 4.5 box). Or, If the 4.5 came with both baffles cut with only the through hole, anyone wanting a flush fit could just add another layer cut for his drivers mounting flange dimension. BTW---Is the 4.5 box one that will be available in BB?

I don't know if it's too late for design ideas, but when it looked like the cabs might not become available, I came up with a bracing design (okay, I "borrowed" and combined the ideas of a few other guys on AVS), thinking of having a cabinet maker cutting the wood for me to assemble. It is a versatile bracing system which would give sub-DIYers a way to make a cab just the way he or she wants: 1- Put dado grooves (one, two, or three, depending on the size of the cab) on each interior wall in each direction---top to bottom and left to right, Tic Tac Toe style---in a box with perfect square inner dimensions. 2- Include enough 3/4" X 1 1/2" X the inner wall dimension pieces for cross-bracing in the "Basic" Sub Cabinet, maybe one for each plane (left to right, front to back, and top to bottom). 3- The braces could be slid to any position in their dado, and would be glued and screwed together at every juncture with every other brace. 4- Offer more braces for a "Plus" version of that cab, and even more for the "Ultimate" (say, nine pieces for every plane in the 4.5 Ultimate, one every 5" or so). For he who thinks that there is no such thing as too much bracing!
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post #383 of 679 Old 10-30-2012, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post


There won't be as many box options in the future because there's no way for everyone to agree on a definite way to do these larger boxes. That was the main reason why this was put on the back burner months ago. Plus I'm not sure what box size people want for all the other brands that are out there, or any way to test fit one of those other brands without actually buying the woofer. We can't rely on manufacturer specs when a larger quantity of boxes are getting cut. If the manufacturer is wrong, that's an expensive mistake.

3 cu ft would fit almost all 15"
4 cu ft would fit almost all 18"

(meaning they would have nice responses that are basically excursion protected)

Does anyone disagree with the above?

While recessed baffles are great i think beggars cant be choosers... people just want boxes so they can put a driver in it. If they want a recessed baffle then offer to ship blank baffles and people can buy routers and jasper bits.

Flush baffles can always be added later if people want to, i would get boxes into their hands first and later down the road if you do baffles thats cool too
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post #384 of 679 Old 10-30-2012, 06:32 AM
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I have always used just 2 layer baffles. The first with the driver cut out the second clears the outside diameter of the frame and gasket to recess the driver 18mm. This has worked for a lot of 80lb drivers without issue and I move my enclosures and transport them way more than most which means they take more shocks than some enclosure that goes in a guys ht and never moves again. 1 baffle of 18mm good quality ply is plenty for even the big drivers. The main benefit of a thicker baffle is more material to screw into so less chance of stripping a screw hole. YMMV
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post #385 of 679 Old 11-05-2012, 12:10 PM
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Erich,

are there any plans for a 4-5 CUFT dual opposed box to fit 18s in the works? this thread has got some people thinking

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435795/first-diy-project-for-a-guy-looking-to-upgrade-multiple-sealed-18s/0_100
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post #386 of 679 Old 11-05-2012, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Right now there's a dual opposed 10" and 12" simply because there are 8 Ohm models for those sizes. Possibly a 15", but I really don't know what woofers would be used. I can look into a dual opposed 18" model, but I'd need to know exactly what to get made up, and for what woofers.


Also, if anyone has an 18" woofer that they think would be popular enough to get a box made for, that would help. If anyone happens to have one near Cincinnati, they could drop it off for me to double check the cut out diameters.

I picked up some Baltic birch subwoofer enclosures on Saturday. Double baffles with the outer baffle being mdf so that the roundovers are smoother and they could be painted easier if needed. The ones I got on Saturday were smaller boxes.
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post #387 of 679 Old 11-05-2012, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Right now there's a dual opposed 10" and 12" simply because there are 8 Ohm models for those sizes. Possibly a 15", but I really don't know what woofers would be used. I can look into a dual opposed 18" model, but I'd need to know exactly what to get made up, and for what woofers.


Also, if anyone has an 18" woofer that they think would be popular enough to get a box made for, that would help. If anyone happens to have one near Cincinnati, they could drop it off for me to double check the cut out diameters.

I picked up some Baltic birch subwoofer enclosures on Saturday. Double baffles with the outer baffle being mdf so that the roundovers are smoother and they could be painted easier if needed. The ones I got on Saturday were smaller boxes.


Dayton 18 HO's
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post #388 of 679 Old 11-05-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd need enclosure sizes as well. 4-5 cu ft for two 18" woofers seems pretty small doesn't it? Wouldn't it be better to do boxes for singles?
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post #389 of 679 Old 11-05-2012, 08:41 PM
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"Give me a nice beefy mounting surface any day."

that looks right at home man!

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post #390 of 679 Old 11-05-2012, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'd need enclosure sizes as well. 4-5 cu ft for two 18" woofers seems pretty small doesn't it? Wouldn't it be better to do boxes for singles?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435795/first-diy-project-for-a-guy-looking-to-upgrade-multiple-sealed-18s/150#post_22560734

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