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post #31 of 679 Old 04-04-2012, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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You'll be able to get 4 of these boxes for that price or less.

I should look into gluing some up and taking them to the local paint shop. That could be interesting. But they aren't here yet, so let's just see how it goes.

I've been working on a bracing idea, but there hasn't been enough time to really tweak my the system yet. So these boxes are going to be your typical fancy window pane shelf bracing set up that ties all panels together. The problem is how much wood that eats up making a huge square with most of the wood removed from the middle. Ideally they'd be smaller interlocking triangles and narrow beams to save weight and wood, but still give the same bracing power. I'll spend more time getting that right for the next runs.
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post #32 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 09:24 AM
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Cross lap joint with scrap wood

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post #33 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'm not sure I follow what you mean here.

There will be 2 baffles, the inner one will drop into rabbets that are cut in the side panels. So the inner baffle will be completely flush with the sides, top, and bottom. The circle will be cut so the driver mounts to that inner baffle.

The outer baffle will be cut a little bigger than the overall woofer diameter. Then it will be placed on top like all other speaker baffles usually are.

Basically the driver will be recessed .75" on a 1.5" thick baffle.


The only issue I'm seeing is that overall dimensions vary a decent amount. So I should probably shoot for the largest one. But sometimes that might mean the outer baffle is .5" bigger than the driver....leaving a .25" gap all the way around. I doubt that would be an issue if it was given a roundover.

But if I don't do that, then every outer baffle would need to be cut for each specific driver. You can imagine how crazy that could get......these are just "general" boxes for people to use.


Example with the 10" drivers:

Dayton RS is 10.5" overall.
Titanic is 11.02"
LMS is 11"

So the outer panel should be made to 11.02". But will the Dayton look okay? The difference is due to the Dayton not having the thick circular gasket like the Titanic and LMS.


I could cut the outer baffle myself with a router.

Yea that all sounds good, my main argument was with how much material needs to be left beyond the baffle for strength. So ill try to explain as best as possible. The one guy was suggesting a box with the SMALLEST front baffle possible. with that, and a double baffle as you said Erich, the first peice will be recessed, with the other laying atop the recessed piece and the sides where they are all nice and flat.

With that said, say you want the external dimensions to be 20x20 on the front baffle after full assembly. Sounds ok since there is an inch of wood (baffle) on all sides of the driver right? Well, wrong actually! There sure is an inch on the outside layer of the baffle, which the driver is NOT mounted to, on the inside baffle, there is actually now only a 1/4" of material at the centerpoint of each side since the inner baffle would actually be 18.5x18.5 to be recessed into the side panels. Does this make sense now?

While that scenario may not bother some, it has always bothered me. Most dont realize it until it is too late, but when the inner baffle is what the driver is being mounted to, and when you get up into much heavier drivers, I dont want any part of my front baffle, first or second layer at under an inch of wood all the way around the driver on the edges.

EDIT: I just realized my numbers above would be with assumption of total driver diameter, not cutout, but the concept still remains true...

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post #34 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 12:28 PM
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Hopefully a picture will help move this along. The question marks are for dimensions needed, anyone have a driver in mind?

Erich would a good starting place be the PE catalog? Also I believe the baffle should be the constant dimension or "template" for each size category and the depth be the variable, any thoughts?

Maybe something like a 20" x 20" baffle for 18's, 18" x 18" for 15's, etc.?

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post #35 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 01:09 PM
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Dude, that is what I was trying to tell you above, 20x20 front baffle, if double baffle, is simply too small/not optimal for an 18 inch driver, you need to at least go up to 21x21. can it work at 20x20? YES! But I wouldnt do it, I just finished a dual 18" build, I've already run through this with measuring for an 18" sub box. youll want to keep it at least 22x22, 21x21 at the minimum. At 20x20 it just aint gonna look right.

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post #36 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 01:42 PM
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Why wouldn't it work? My box for a LMS 5400 is 20.5" (external) all the way around and I see no structural issues with it that I can think of. There is plenty of room for me to reduce that to 20"x20". There is at least 1.25" of space between the screw hole and the outer edge of the baffle. Box is built using 1" panels with a 2.5" front baffle.



Here is the front view with the driver installed.

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post #37 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Dude, that is what I was trying to tell you above, 20x20 front baffle, if double baffle, is simply too small/not optimal for an 18 inch driver, you need to at least go up to 21x21. can it work at 20x20? YES! But I wouldnt do it, I just finished a dual 18" build, I've already run through this with measuring for an 18" sub box. youll want to keep it at least 22x22, 21x21 at the minimum. At 20x20 it just aint gonna look right.

Beast, I was just trying to put it into a drawing, because somebody might not know exactly what you're talking about. So what about the 20" x 20" baffle does not work, is it purely an aesthetic reason or structural, anyone?

duc135, no worries about before and nice looking box. After seeing your picture I would have to agree with beast that the box have at least 1.5"-2" surrounding the driver, for aesthetic reasons. It also raises another question, is Erich going to package hurricane nuts with the flat packs?
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post #38 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec4 View Post

Beast, I was just trying to put it into a drawing, because somebody might not know exactly what you're talking about. So what about the 20" x 20" baffle does not work, is it purely an aesthetic reason or structural, anyone?

duc135, no worries about before and nice looking box. After seeing your picture I would have to agree with beast that the box have at least 1.5"-2" surrounding the driver, for aesthetic reasons. It also raises another question, is Erich going to package hurricane nuts with the flat packs?

Thanks for the compliment Spec4.

I was commenting on beastaudio's concern whether or not 20" x 20" would work or not structurally. My first picture shows that there is plenty of wood in the baffle to support even the weight of an LMS.

I'm not sure if Erich will be including Hurricane nuts, nor would they be necessary unless you will be replacing drivers often or you're anal like I am. As for aesthetic reasons for a larger box I can't comment on that as it's all a matter of preference. I had size limitations so I needed to make them as small as possible. Mine has 1.25" on either side of the driver edge with an additional 1/4" of gap so the total would be 1.5".
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post #39 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


With that said, say you want the external dimensions to be 20x20 on the front baffle after full assembly. Sounds ok since there is an inch of wood (baffle) on all sides of the driver right? Well, wrong actually! There sure is an inch on the outside layer of the baffle, which the driver is NOT mounted to, on the inside baffle, there is actually now only a 1/4" of material at the centerpoint of each side since the inner baffle would actually be 18.5x18.5 to be recessed into the side panels. Does this make sense now?

While that scenario may not bother some, it has always bothered me. Most dont realize it until it is too late, but when the inner baffle is what the driver is being mounted to, and when you get up into much heavier drivers, I dont want any part of my front baffle, first or second layer at under an inch of wood all the way around the driver on the edges.


There's a couple problems with your scenario though. What you were worried about is actually the opposite. The strongest part of a box is at the corners and edges. So in reality, the smaller the baffle and the closer to the edge the driver screws are....the stronger it would actually be, not weaker. The closer you are to corner or angle, the better.

Plus, once the wood is glued, the joint is stronger than the wood itself. The problem would show up with a huge baffle and a smaller driver in the middle of that panel.

Having said all of the, the baffle will be bigger than 20"x20" anyway.
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post #40 of 679 Old 04-05-2012, 05:36 PM
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I did 20 inch cubes for my 4 UXLs. Not sure what the worry is at all, they are some sturdy cabinets!
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post #41 of 679 Old 04-06-2012, 01:42 AM
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this baffle is 21" wide...and 3 layers thick. with the 16.7 inch hole cut thru, and the 18.2 resess cut into it .9" the baffle was rock solid. But i inset the baffle making the total width 22.5 and i think visually it is the perfect amount of frame around the 18" speaker. And i have not finished the speaker yet...i will hide those screws. They are the only screws in the entire box, but i needed to tack down the first joint of the glue up because it kept sliding on me.
LL

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post #42 of 679 Old 04-06-2012, 03:49 AM
 
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The Aurasound NS18's outer cutout is 477mm.
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post #43 of 679 Old 04-17-2012, 12:53 PM
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i would buy 4 in baltic birch when they are available, i have 4 aurasound ns18 drivers, and i definitely dont have time to cut the 500 bucks of baltic birch i have in the garage since a year ago lol.

praying for the flatpacks soon!
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post #44 of 679 Old 04-17-2012, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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The 10" and 12" sealed boxes were cut last weekend, I just haven't had time to list them yet or take pictures. Those are mdf. I'm hoping they get me a prototype for the 15" and 18" within the next week or so. As soon as I assemble them and everything goes together properly, they will be cut very quickly. I was at their shop last weekend and they said they're starting a second shift for the CNC machine which should really help out.

The first 20 or so will be mdf just to make sure it all works out. But the Baltic birch might also be done at the same time for those bigger boxes.
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post #45 of 679 Old 04-17-2012, 06:49 PM
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My LMS Ultras in 20"x20"x23" (exterior dimensions) boxes

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I did it in a 21" cube. Loving it still.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The 10" and 12" sealed boxes were cut last weekend, I just haven't had time to list them yet or take pictures. Those are mdf. I'm hoping they get me a prototype for the 15" and 18" within the next week or so. As soon as I assemble them and everything goes together properly, they will be cut very quickly. I was at their shop last weekend and they said they're starting a second shift for the CNC machine which should really help out.

The first 20 or so will be mdf just to make sure it all works out. But the Baltic birch might also be done at the same time for those bigger boxes.

any news is good news! definitely looking to hear about 18" flat packs. baltic birch would be awesome, i have 2 gallons of duratex here that i pray will still be ok. fingers are crossed
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post #48 of 679 Old 04-17-2012, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Things should now start trickling in at a fairly good clip.....finally. Flat packs for Paul Carmody's Swope speaker design are done. And I've got 3 other speakers cut that are waiting for the crossover work to be finalized by the designer. Those haven't been posted yet. I think I've got about 12 different flat packs cut right now with maybe 6 waiting to be done this month. That's not counting subwoofer boxes.

Right after Mother's Day my landscaping jobs slow down a lot and things fall into a regular schedule. All the SEOS speaker stuff should be here around the end of May which means a lot more designs.


And if all goes well.......there should be some interesting sub driver prototypes coming soon. I probably shouldn't say much about that though.
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fingers crossed for sure, and pray that all goes well with the production of all things!
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post #50 of 679 Old 04-18-2012, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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fingers crossed for sure, and pray that all goes well with the production of all things!

It's taking a lot not to talk about the 18" models that are coming. But I'll bite my tongue for a bit longer to make sure these are really going to materialize. I should know for certain in a couple weeks.
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post #51 of 679 Old 04-19-2012, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

It's taking a lot not to talk about the 18" models that are coming. But I'll bite my tongue for a bit longer to make sure these are really going to materialize. I should know for certain in a couple weeks.

definitely looking forward to seeing you post about it in the near future.
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post #52 of 679 Old 04-22-2012, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Forum member BWaslo stopped by my place today and I showed him the subwoofer flat packs. He thought they were really nice and easy to assemble. I'll get the photos up tomorrow. I tried to get some this evening, but they didn't turn out very good.

The only thing I need to do is get a price for the packaging material and we're good to go.
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post #53 of 679 Old 04-22-2012, 08:22 PM
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Do you know the price of these yet?
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post #54 of 679 Old 04-22-2012, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I need to get the price for packaging material to figure final costs. Plus the first small quantity I picked up isn't an accurate price yet. I got an email from the CNC guy this evening letting me know I should stop down at their shop to discuss pricing on a larger quantity than I initially got. The smaller boxes are not problem and prices will surely be priced good for how beefed up they are. The larger boxes use more than 1 sheet of mdf, so I'm not sure how that will be handled yet. In the past they have bought 5' x 10' sheets of mdf so that things fit better during cutting. I guess that's what they've been working out.


As you can imagine, I'd like to try and sway them to the cheaper side but I'm really not sure what I should tell them we're shooting for on price. If I recall, they quoted around $125 - $135 last year for Baltic birch on the larger sized 18" sealed box. But that had simpler bracing in the design using less wood.

If they can get us the big 18" well braced mdf sealed box for less than $100, I think that would be pretty good. Less than $80 for the 15", less than $60 for the 12", less than $40 for the 10"????

Any input on that? I'm sort of just throwing out ideas of what I should tell them though. Maybe I should postpone the meeting tomorrow and post photos.


The reason the first ones will be mdf is strictly due to cost and to make sure these go together really easy. Baltic is going to be a decent amount more, so it would be best to make any small changes to the design with the cheaper stuff first. But they're pretty nice and go together very simple.

I've got about 4 different bracing ideas, but the easiest one of those will have to be done later after I work with them on a few designs. Right now I drew them up as your typical "matrix" style shelf braces with interlocking vertical beams pulling it all together. BWaslo and I put one of the bigger ones together well under 5 minutes using masking tape. I was able to pick it up and move it around with only tape holding it together. It was surprising solid for just tape.

They hold together good enough to where a seasoned DIY guy could nearly glue up the entire box and then clamp it all during one session. And that's with a decent amount of bracing. Later drop in the 1st baffle layer after it dries, then the outer baffle on top.
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post #55 of 679 Old 04-23-2012, 12:34 AM
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I'm good with those prices Erich for what that's worth. If there are extras from the first MDF run let me know I will come get them.
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post #56 of 679 Old 04-23-2012, 12:40 AM
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Also, anyone have cut out dimensions for any 18" PE doesn't sell? These will be double baffle, so I need overall diameter and the cutout hole diameter.
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post #57 of 679 Old 04-23-2012, 03:52 AM
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Erich,

Do you have any flatpacks for Econowaves in the queue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Things should now start trickling in at a fairly good clip.....finally. Flat packs for Paul Carmody's Swope speaker design are done. And I've got 3 other speakers cut that are waiting for the crossover work to be finalized by the designer. Those haven't been posted yet. I think I've got about 12 different flat packs cut right now with maybe 6 waiting to be done this month. That's not counting subwoofer boxes.

Right after Mother's Day my landscaping jobs slow down a lot and things fall into a regular schedule. All the SEOS speaker stuff should be here around the end of May which means a lot more designs.


And if all goes well.......there should be some interesting sub driver prototypes coming soon. I probably shouldn't say much about that though.

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post #58 of 679 Old 04-23-2012, 05:34 AM
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prices look good to me, very interested in one of those 12s or 15s
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post #59 of 679 Old 04-23-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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They haven't actually told me prices yet, I'm just guessing. But not sure if the numbers I'd like to see are good or bad yet. I'll get pictures up later today to see what you guys think. I've already got a good starting amount of each size, but they won't mind changing bracing or some other easy stuff if needed.

Main thing is to figure out how to ship these without damage, but I've got some good ideas. Shipping rates were checked as well. Because of all the stuff I helped ship out last year my FedEx rates are pretty darn good. So that will help everyone out. I've also talked to my sister about possibly helping me package these things up if I can't keep up with all this stuff once the waveguides come in. I told her maybe we could add $5 to each of the larger subwoofer flat packs if she could help box them up. She did help on some things in the past for free, but not sure on these heavy sub boxes. I mentioned it to another friend as well and he would help if needed.

My busy season is over in about 1.5 weeks, so it might not be an issue anyway.
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post #60 of 679 Old 04-23-2012, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepen View Post

Erich,

Do you have any flatpacks for Econowaves in the queue?


Yes, a few are already designed for the SEOS waveguide that's coming. The CNC company scanned in the plastic waveguide and cut me a test box. I could get some of the boxes done without the SEOS perimeter cut in the front if you think the boxes should be made for other waveguides as well.


I sort of wish I knew a price range to shoot for on these larger speakers and subs. The previous flat packs were all small and cheap, so it was no big deal when the price came in at $13 - $20 per box. But I'm going in blind on these larger boxes.

Any price guesses or hopeful ranges would help out. I postponed the meeting 2 days so I can get a better idea.
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