Dimensions for sealed 18" sub box - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Any brilliant ideas for matching cutouts with certain drivers? The kits will match up perfectly but what about the other ones that I don't actually have to test fit?

I really don't want to buy an 18" LMS just to test fit the diameter of the cutout. Should I just get holes cut 1/4" bigger than the manufacturer specs? That would be 1/8" clearance all around.

And what about recessing them? They all have slightly different depths.

I don't mind cutting out my own holes. There are a ton of different drivers out there. Just cut the most used drivers (or the ones you can get your hands on) then have the option for blank baffles. On the blank baffles, just mark where the center is on both pieces so it's easier to line them up.
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post #182 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 08:27 AM
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A center pilot hole on blank front baffles is a great idea, and it should keep the price down for those that can cut their own.

I would add the cut-out for a driver as an extra option and charge as such. This way you have the best of both worlds...stock boxes ready to ship and matched driver boxes.

Just a thought.
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post #183 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 08:56 AM
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Thats a great idea to have blank baffles with pilot holes & to charge a bit extra for cutting holes for most commonly used drivers.

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post #184 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 01:01 PM
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I agree with no cutout, just a pilot hole centered in the baffle. Then any box can be used with any size sub creating more options for people. Someone could use the big 4^ft box with a 12" sub and throw in some type of port if they wanted. Surely everyone knows someone with a router and circle jig.
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post #185 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 02:25 PM
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Ok, now that we have that settled ...how 'bout some prices!
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post #186 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 06:23 PM
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Any chance on a big box for the 21's?

War Eagle!
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post #187 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang View Post

A center pilot hole on blank front baffles is a great idea, and it should keep the price down for those that can cut their own.

I would add the cut-out for a driver as an extra option and charge as such. This way you have the best of both worlds...stock boxes ready to ship and matched driver boxes.

Just a thought.

Precisely.

I had to double check, but my jasper jig needs a 1/8" hole for the guide pin. That would be perfect for the blank baffles. No reason to make a baffle for every single driver, that would be crazy.
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post #188 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 09:24 PM
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Is it possible to add a 1/8" pilot hole dead center with a CNC?
I don't know much about CNC's but I do know they are not cutting 3/4" stock with a 1/8" bit. Either there would need to be a bit change or they would have to cut the pilot hole by hand.

Not sure how much doing either would slow production so if it adds significantly to the cost I can certainly add my own pilot hole if I am going to do my own cutouts.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #189 of 679 Old 05-15-2012, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Is it possible to add a 1/8" pilot hole dead center with a CNC?
I don't know much about CNC's but I do know they are not cutting 3/4" stock with a 1/8" bit. Either there would need to be a bit change or they would have to cut the pilot hole by hand.

Not sure how much doing either would slow production so if it adds significantly to the cost I can certainly add my own pilot hole if I am going to do my own cutouts.

You're right, they don't use 1/8" bits to cut with. But the holes could still be marked. In the end I might be doing the roundovers on the front myself. I did that with the Overnight Sensations along with the chamfer behind the woofer.....no big deal.

If I do the roundovers, I can easily mark the center of the panel prior to running them down the router table. Actually, I was using a small shaper for the other roundovers. For these big boxes, I need to get a decent router table. Good excuse to buy some more wood working tools.

I've decided that the beefier boxes are probably going to either get a 2" thick baffle (using two 1" pieces) or a 1.75" thick baffle (using one .75" and one 1" piece of mdf). But if driver holes don't get removed, it's going to add a good 6-8 lbs to each shipping weight. At that point we're going to need 2 shipping boxes. That's why I'm thinking we really need some well build boxes that aren't too heavy, but also some heavy duty boxes for those wanting 100lb enclosures. You can start to see the number of box models getting bigger and bigger can't you???? The options are a bit crazy.

With 2 layers of .75", those big drivers would really only be attached to the bottom .75" layer which doesn't seem good enough. If the top layer is 1" thick and I recess the driver .75" into that panel, then it will be biting into both pieces and 1" worth of material.

This is the only thing I'm waiting on for the bigger boxes. Of course the problem is easy to see. Everything on the bigger boxes can be cut from one sheet except BOTH baffle layers. If we go with 1.75" thick baffles, we will be cutting into a second sheet of .75" and a sheet of 1" material. Just one more different option to figure out.



I realize this all seems simple....."Just cut some square boxes and pack them up." But it's not. These have to pass the 10 year old assemble test, easy to package and ship, and fit a large number of drivers. If we just needed one box size for one driver, that would have been done months ago. Regardless, many will be listed this week as promised. I've got quite a few right now.

I'm going to go to Parts Express either this week or Monday and take a bunch of different cutout sizes. Someone there should let me test fit a decent number of woofers. Then I can get the cutouts done with the CNC for "kits". And also have blank baffles listed too. That will cover everyone.

If someone needed me to cut a certain sized hole because they can't do it, I'm sure I could help with that.
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post #190 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 06:57 AM
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Bravo Erich! Sounds like you pretty much have everything covered and figured out. Can't wait to pi$$ my neighbors off with some added tight and loud bass

Thanks for all your hard work.
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post #191 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 09:17 AM
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Nice. I'm getting pumped for these boxes. I'm thinking about getting two 1.25cu boxes for my 12"LMSRs, then veneering and adding a table top so they look like end tables that match my entertainment center.

Is the round over an option? It would be better not to have round overs with the design that I have in mind.
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post #192 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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Erich you may already know this but as far as 18" drivers go the 3 most popular frames we DIYers encounter all have the same mounting hole pattern/cut-out/OD or close enough that it doesn't matter. These are: the 12 spoke frame as seen used on Fi, Ascendant Audio, SSA, etc. The frame used on the LMS5400, 5100, SMD, etc...And the 6 spoke frame like on the Mach5, Sundown Zv3, Mal-x, etc. These all drop into the same basic cutout fine. Actually a lot of pro sound 18's will drop right into the same cut-out as well. The rubber gasket that comes on a lot of these drivers is the same part as well. What may differ slightly is the OD of the frame so keep that in mind if you were planning on flush mounting.

These same frames are also drop ins for each other in the 12 and 15" sizes FYI.
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post #193 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Erich you may already know this but as far as 18" drivers go the 3 most popular frames we DIYers encounter all have the same mounting hole pattern/cut-out/OD or close enough that it doesn't matter. These are: the 12 spoke frame as seen used on Fi, Ascendant Audio, SSA, etc. The frame used on the LMS5400, 5100, SMD, etc...And the 6 spoke frame like on the Mach5, Sundown Zv3, Mal-x, etc. These all drop into the same basic cutout fine. Actually a lot of pro sound 18's will drop right into the same cut-out as well. The rubber gasket that comes on a lot of these drivers is the same part as well. What may differ slightly is the OD of the frame so keep that in mind if you were planning on flush mounting.

These same frames are also drop ins for each other in the 12 and 15" sizes FYI.


What diameters do you normally use for the 15's and 18's Ricci?

I am mostly worried about the outer dimensions for the exterior baffle. That's where I might have to just cut them myself or get something like 15 of each diameter.


I talked to PE today and they'll let me check the cutouts with any open box drivers they have. So I'll try to get up there this week with some different baffles. Ideally they just let me take some home and I can return them after making sure the CNC cuts them correctly. I'm sure they have some returns they could loan me for a few days.
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post #194 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 01:06 PM
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We need to take up an appreciation collection for you Erich. Perhaps everyone chip in and buy you a nice 18" sub or something like that.

War Eagle!
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post #195 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

We need to take up an appreciation collection for you Erich. Perhaps everyone chip in and buy you a nice 18" sub or something like that.

No need. I'm suppose to get some beefy 18" sub driver prototypes soon for testing. My guess is that they'll be shipped to Ricci and another forum member for testing.
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post #196 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

What diameters do you normally use for the 15's and 18's Ricci?

I am mostly worried about the outer dimensions for the exterior baffle. That's where I might have to just cut them myself or get something like 15 of each diameter.


I talked to PE today and they'll let me check the cutouts with any open box drivers they have. So I'll try to get up there this week with some different baffles. Ideally they just let me take some home and I can return them after making sure the CNC cuts them correctly. I'm sure they have some returns they could loan me for a few days.

Erich, I have the 6 spoke and the 12 spoke 18" baskets I'll loan you if you want. Just let me know and I will come drop them off!
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post #197 of 679 Old 05-16-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

No need. I'm suppose to get some beefy 18" sub driver prototypes soon for testing. My guess is that they'll be shipped to Ricci and another forum member for testing.

That might be the 1st time anyone has posted on this forum that they don't need more bass.

War Eagle!
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post #198 of 679 Old 05-17-2012, 10:22 AM
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Not trying to stir up the "how much bracing do we need" discussion again, but considering you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But if driver holes don't get removed, it's going to add a good 6-8 lbs to each shipping weight. At that point we're going to need 2 shipping boxes. That's why I'm thinking we really need some well build boxes that aren't too heavy, but also some heavy duty boxes for those wanting 100lb enclosures.

So maybe using less bracing could shed a few pounds? OTOH if you're using 1" for the baffle and 3/4" for the box, why not make the bracing from 1/2" to cut weight? Although I would suggest using a single thickness from a cost perspective, just my .02 cents.
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post #199 of 679 Old 05-17-2012, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec4 View Post

Not trying to stir up the "how much bracing do we need" discussion again, but considering you said:


So maybe using less bracing could shed a few pounds? OTOH if you're using 1" for the baffle and 3/4" for the box, why not make the bracing from 1/2" to cut weight? Although I would suggest using a single thickness from a cost perspective, just my .02 cents.



I'm going to remove one of the braces from a box and see how it goes. It makes sense to try to have some standard boxes and then some beefed up boxes for guys that don't mind paying extra for shipping.



The trial shipping boxes came in today. I will be experimenting with packaging some up this evening. It looks like I'm going to have to cut the boxes down a little after I package these up. That kind of stinks, but it's hard finding strong boxes that aren't very deep. No big deal though.
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post #200 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I've figured out some rough prices and some are boxed up and ready to ship.

The 1.25 cu ft boxes with double baffles, bracing, roundovers, dados, rabbet joints, and recessed driver cutouts will be $52 each. They were $44 and then I'm figuring $4 for packaging material and I'm going to try and get my sister to box them up for $4 each. I'm going to be very busy once the SEOS waveguides come in and this is a small enough box that she could help with. I'll take care of doing the roundovers on the front so if you don't need them, let me know. They weigh around 30lbs or so. Shipping will be very reasonable with my FedEx discount to most of the country.

The following link is a box cut for the 10" Titanic from PE, but there will some with blank baffles available and also a model for the Reference line from PE and the TC Sounds as well. That should take in most 10" size drivers. I'm also going to try and get the front baffles for the 12" TC Sounds and 12" Reference line for this box.

Might also try a 1.75" thick baffle option.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-pa...flat-pack.html


The 2.25 cu ft box basically the same as above only larger is $75. This kind of stinks because I was hoping for it to be lower. The problem is that it still takes up a full sheet of mdf even though there is a little wood left over. But no other sub box parts fit in the left over area. They really should be $80, but I'm going to box these up for free myself to try and keep them at $75. If I can get the CNC company to cut something else with the left over wood, then maybe the price will come down a bit. Not sure what to do about that. Maybe some subwoofer feet? But I doubt anyone would buy those enough to lower the price of this box. I'll see what I can do. They weigh 40lbs so again, shipping will be pretty reasonable. Possible 1.75" baffle option as well.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-pa...flat-pack.html

Again, there will be different baffle cut outs for that box.


The 3 cu ft box will be around $95 because it will either dig into the 2nd sheet of mdf or get the 1" thick outer baffle making the total outer baffle thickness 1.75". Plus the double thick shipping box sample I bought cost $5.75 just for the box! There might be an option for a 2" thick baffle as well. Still working on photos for this due to the 1" mdf option. I'm going to try 2 cheaper shipping boxes versus one double thick and then tape them together.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-pa...flat-pack.html

4 cu ft will be "around" $115 because it will almost certainly have the 2" thick baffles. And will use 1 full sheet of 3/4" and a chunk of a 1" thick sheet. There might be a cheaper version and then a more expensive version. This box worries me a bit on shipping. It might need to be shipped in 2 separate boxes. That won't really add much to the shipping costs unless you live out on the West Coast, then 2 separate boxes might add an extra $20.



Right now I have about 60 total subwoofer boxes. I'm just waiting on the 1" mdf for the final shipping weights and total costs.


NOTE: The prices for the larger boxes are "around" that price. If you guys think it's high, I'll mention it and see if it can be changed at all. But I can't promise anything. For how these boxes are, I think the pricing does make sense compared to other flat pack prices I got on the smaller items.
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post #201 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm promised to receive some dual opposed box samples very soon along with ported designs.



I really need ideas on driver cutouts from forum members as soon as possible.

And I could really use some ideas for ported boxes and specific drivers. I'm not very good at subwoofer design yet and don't want to mess that up.

Anyone have some slot port designs or other ported ideas?


Also, if someone has EXACT cubic foot needs and general dimensions for a super beefed LMS box using all 1" material, please post it and I'll see what can be done.
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post #202 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 10:45 PM
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The older AV15's (and the newer AV15H/X) are 14" cutouts. What size is the dual opposed box that just came in?
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post #203 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 10:46 PM
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What are the final dimensions on the 4 cube box?
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post #204 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 11:08 PM
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The Dayton RS15's are 14.125" cutout. I think the drivers with 14" cutouts like the LMSR would still enough material with the 14.125 cutout for screws, as those are 14.75" across. The larger cutout gives a little more versatility.
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post #205 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 11:11 PM
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I plan to order two 3 cu ft boxes for my leftover MFW-15 drivers.

Mike
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post #206 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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One of the guys at PE is suppose to put me in contact with the person that deals with item returns. So I'm pretty confident that I can check all cut outs from anything that PE sells. I'm suppose to go up there some day this week after they gather things up.

Right now I'm going to check baffles for the following and get them made:

Dayton Reference 10", 12", 15"
Titanic 10", 12", 15"
LMS 10", 12", 15", 18"
Dayton 15" DVC385, 15" DCS-380

If any of you guys know optimal enclosure volumes for any of those models (and plate amps), please let me know so I can make sure we have specific drop in kits.



Here's the sealed boxes I'm shooting for:

1.25 cu ft
2.25 cu ft
2.5 cu ft
3 cu ft
3.5 cu ft
4 cu ft
possibly 5-6 cu ft.
possibly .75 - 1 cu ft?

dual opposed 2 cu ft for two 10's
dual opposed 2.5 - 2.75 cu ft (???) for two Dayton Reference 12's
dual opposed (????) for two 15's...what 15's?

Possibly two 10's or two 12's mounted vertically. But then again, which drivers, what size box?


The slight problem is 100 drivers and 100 box sizes. So while the general sizes above will be good, and blank baffles will also help, I think it would be great to have some enclosures designed specifically for a certain driver.


I've been scouring the vast interwebz looking for certain models that people really like and what box size they work best in along with amps, but that's not so easy because there's a lot of variation.


I'm completely open for any ported designs to match up with something. I really need to get all this figured out before the end of the month because all the waveguide stuff is coming then.

The small "warehouse" next to my landscaping business is starting to look funny! Flat packs and waveguides everywhere!
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post #207 of 679 Old 05-21-2012, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

And I could really use some ideas for ported boxes and specific drivers. I'm not very good at subwoofer design yet and don't want to mess that up.

Anyone have some slot port designs or other ported ideas?


I think a 6.5 ft3 18hz tuned box would be pretty popular for high output 15" sub builds. An example would be a 24" wide 24" deep 32" high box, with a 2" x 22.5" wide slot that extends back the depth of the cab (23.25") and then up the back 28.5", for 51.75" total length. This will give you 7.1 ft3, leaving .6 ft3 for bracing. Filling the bottom of the cabinet below the port opening with fill should account for the woofers volume displacement. (All calculations with .75" material)

Picture shows the Titanic 15 (green), DVC 15 (orange), RS 15 HF (blue). The Titanic could would take 750 watts to reach Xmax, with 21.5 M/S air velocity with no subsonic filter (drops to 12.5 M/S with 18hz HPF).
LL
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post #208 of 679 Old 05-22-2012, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I think a 6.5 ft3 18hz tuned box would be pretty popular for high output 15" sub builds. An example would be a 24" wide 24" deep 32" high box, with a 2" x 22.5" wide slot that extends back the depth of the cab (23.25") and then up the back 28.5", for 51.75" total length. This will give you 7.1 ft3, leaving .6 ft3 for bracing. Filling the bottom of the cabinet below the port opening with fill should account for the woofers volume displacement. (All calculations with .75" material)

Picture shows the Titanic 15 (green), DVC 15 (orange), RS 15 HF (blue). The Titanic could would take 750 watts to reach Xmax, with 21.5 M/S air velocity with no subsonic filter (drops to 12.5 M/S with 18hz HPF).



How much of a hit would they take around 5.75 - 6 cu ft and tuned around 18-20hz? For a 6 cu ft box using the slot equivalent of a 6" port, I'm getting about 35" long?

I'm thinking about shipping weight issues with a box that large and the extra pieces of wood for the slot port. Price would probably still be okay and just ship it in 2 packages. My Fed Ex rates have gotten pretty good.

24" wide would not be good because the CNC machines usually use a 3/8" or 1/2" wide bit and they also cut off the outer edges of the board. 22" - 23" would be better.
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post #209 of 679 Old 05-22-2012, 12:38 AM
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Dropping to 6 ft3 and 19 hz still looks pretty good. 23" wide 23" deep 32" high, 2" x 21.5" x 47.75" port, same build as before, port all the way to the back, up 27". This leaves a little over .5ft3 for bracing. This slot port has 50% more cross area then a 6" round port, which is why they are longer (less issues with port noise for potential uber driver builds). If you want to do large high output round port builds, you will likely have to do tall cabinets with cutouts for down/up firing ports.
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post #210 of 679 Old 05-22-2012, 12:59 AM
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I guess you could do 23" x 23" x 30" with a 6" x 24" port for 7.2ft3 before any bracing is considered. Would be about 20hz 6.4-6.7 ft3 in the end. Would be physically smaller and cheaper then the slotted design, with more internal volume, just wouldn't work as well with the higher powered drivers.

You could feed the Titanic 800 watts in this box, which would be at 24.3 M/S with an 18hz HPF. Most people probably wouldn't have a problem with that in reality, it just isn't ideal like the slot port.
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