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DIY Speakers and Subs

N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG
06:30 PM Liked: 372
post #61 of 82
05-07-2012 | Posts: 6,029
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Funny. I had/have the HO, HF & Titanic 15s here and playing with them in a small sealed box (<60L), as well as a few vented boxes, I came to the opposite conclusion. I suspect large 3 cu.ft. sealed box for the HO left it flopping around too much below 20Hz and much of what you preferred about the Titanic was that the suspension locks up hard due to the smaller diameter spider and keeps from making quite as offensive a noise when pushed hard past its limits (it is more tolerant to abuse). That said, the RS15 HO is audibly and measurably cleaner than the Titanic, with a suspension that sounds better to a higher useful excursion. I'd argue the useful excursion is actually very close between the two, although they will need different EQ to compare fairly in the similar size box.

Models are fairly representative past at least 1/2 Xmax, but what happens as you approach and go past Xmax takes some educated guessing and understanding of how a particular driver behaves at its limits, and even then you can get some surprises. At some point someone has to test it and push it to the stops as Ricci has in his various videos and descriptions of raw drivers at data-bass.

Just my 2c to take or leave.

that could be but I was only compare them in the 3CF boxes, though the HO's were making mechanical noise on from around 38hz and down with the 500 watt amp and were good to go with the 300 bash I had, the titanic never had any type of noise at any level even boosted into the teens and was noticeably louder. But playing both subs side by side resulted in very minimal SQ difference when they were played within their limits IMO anyways. But hey your the sub guy and I'm just doing this for fun.
Splicer010's Avatar Splicer010
06:39 PM Liked: 32
post #62 of 82
05-07-2012 | Posts: 7,819
Joined: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

It's funny because you have one, so of course you'll defend it to the end, not that theres anything wrong with that, I'm a Mach 5 fan boy also.
You being anywhere near PE makes no difference because as you said, this is the internet and you're probably full of it anyways right?
I have 2 HO's sitting in boxes in my garage. They ARE great drivers but just don't have the steam IMO to be in a HT.
My advise sticks, save the money and go with the 300 watt amps and never worry about damaging the driver. The OP seemed to be on a tight budget and that would save him money, which was the point of the suggestion in the first place.

Pretty much after I read you don't care for a in 15 in driver for HT, I read the rest of your post with a in full bloom lol

That's correct, I don't have any clue as to what driver SOUNDS best...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

That said, the RS15 HO is audibly and measurably cleaner than the Titanic,

Mark, thanks for confirming what I tried to tell N8DOGG...


N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG
06:52 PM Liked: 372
post #63 of 82
05-07-2012 | Posts: 6,029
Joined: Dec 2003
Well, if everyone liked the same sound, we would not have a forum and the submersive could be the only sub available, It's a great sub but it's not for everyone.
It was my opinion on drivers I actually have, you don't even have the same sized drivers and are telling me how it is, at least I actually have them and have tried it.

So what, I don't think theres a huge difference, Mark is saying his opinion and we are lucky to have him on the boards but his opinion is just that. SQ is in the ear of the beholder. I liked the titanic better because I think it does more right and in my situation, it's is and does.
Splicer010's Avatar Splicer010
07:14 PM Liked: 32
post #64 of 82
05-07-2012 | Posts: 7,819
Joined: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Mark is saying his opinion

He is?! You mean his statement about being MEASURABLY BETTER is just an opinion and not FACT?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

HO is audibly and measurably cleaner than the Titanic,

The way I read it, sounds pretty damn factual to me, no opinions inserted.

Now, I stated up front 'my' "opinion" when it came to the 12" versions of the 15" (which is absolute overkill for 98% of folks out there) and it was verified by the one and only Mr. Seaton himself that apparently, the SAME HOLDS TRUE for the 15" version as well.

Now, Mr. ready to shove my face in a pile of dog crap, I accept your apology. Just please remember you are not the only one with an opinion and for you to try to badmouth me because I actually live near PE and am a regular there, was very poor form for you.

With all this behind us now, I would like to congratulate the OP on his purchase and wish him enjoyment and well being in his DIY venture.
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG
07:57 PM Liked: 372
post #65 of 82
05-07-2012 | Posts: 6,029
Joined: Dec 2003
meh, believe what ever you want to.
It would seem to me you may need a snickers, just an observation lol
Splicer010's Avatar Splicer010
08:12 PM Liked: 32
post #66 of 82
05-07-2012 | Posts: 7,819
Joined: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

meh, believe what ever you want to.

I expected as much of a reply.

Quote:


It would seem to me you may need a snickers, just an observation lol

Gotta give you this one...
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG
08:29 PM Liked: 372
post #67 of 82
05-07-2012 | Posts: 6,029
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

I expected as much of a reply.

Nothing is going to change anyones mind on anything so it's done I guess. She is what she is.
bluestang's Avatar bluestang
09:23 AM Liked: 10
post #68 of 82
05-08-2012 | Posts: 104
Joined: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmn107 View Post

Just an update I bought the 300W bash amp and the Dayton 15" HF driver. I have the boards cut into squares and plan to cut the holes for the driver and bracing and start gluing it all together on Friday.

Keep us posted on your progress, but more importantly...your results.
Mark Seaton's Avatar Mark Seaton
05:32 PM Liked: 347
post #69 of 82
05-08-2012 | Posts: 6,099
Joined: Jul 2000
Hi guys. I do apologize if my short reply was misinterpreted as denying or invalidating another's valid opinion. I added my own opinion and finding, which happened to differ from N8DOGG's. I purposed noted the very valid point that the Titanic is a bit more durable, and other differences will be audible, including frequency response in the same box. That leaves plenty of room for differing preferences depending on what is being compared and on what basis.

I never question that someone heard or observed something and had a specific interpretation. We can and should debate *why* someone had a certain preference or observation, but that doesn't change the preference. That debate might help understand what could change such a preference, but that is for a different case.
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG
05:57 PM Liked: 372
post #70 of 82
05-08-2012 | Posts: 6,029
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Hi guys. I do apologize if my short reply was misinterpreted as denying or invalidating another's valid opinion. I added my own opinion and finding, which happened to differ from N8DOGG's. I purposed noted the very valid point that the Titanic is a bit more durable, and other differences will be audible, including frequency response in the same box. That leaves plenty of room for differing preferences depending on what is being compared and on what basis.

I never question that someone heard or observed something and had a specific interpretation. We can and should debate *why* someone had a certain preference or observation, but that doesn't change the preference. That debate might help understand what could change such a preference, but that is for a different case.

I know you were just giving info, thats why I said it was your opinion that it sounded better. I can only comment on each driver in the 3cf box with the 500 watts and which i liked better. I have no agenda for either driver, I could care less which one was in the boxes for my buddy, all I wanted was a good driver that sounded good and had some umph for HT. The titanic IMO was a better fit. I got them for a great price, less that the HO. It's kind of a moot point anyways as I'll be getting Mark of Mach 5 to be building replacement drivers for the titanics in the near future. I can't not seeing supporting a local guy who makes great drivers and has always been helpful.

I would have went with Mach 5 drivers if Mark had any parts for his 15's but he's out and I was on a time restraint. My buddy was completely floored by the subs, he didn't want a bunch of people at home coming, as he's been gone for a year but all the work I did on those boxes was worth it when I saw his face. Plus they sounded great in his HT. Replacing some klipsch D12's he had before.
tmn107's Avatar tmn107
11:22 PM Liked: 10
post #71 of 82
05-08-2012 | Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 2010
Do you think just gluing the boards together will be strong enough or should I use screws for the box. The reason I am asking is because I want to do a glossy black finish and would think screws would make it hard to get a smooth finish.
Jay1's Avatar Jay1
12:08 AM Liked: 134
post #72 of 82
05-09-2012 | Posts: 4,201
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmn107 View Post

Do you think just gluing the boards together will be strong enough or should I use screws for the box. The reason I am asking is because I want to do a glossy black finish and would think screws would make it hard to get a smooth finish.

As long as the joints are clamped tight, regular wood glue bonds stronger then the wood its self.
tmn107's Avatar tmn107
10:15 AM Liked: 10
post #73 of 82
05-09-2012 | Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 2010
Another noob question. What is the best option for mounting the driver into the MDF. T-nut or I also saw hurricane nuts? Which is the best for use in MDF or is there a better option than those 2.
garciab's Avatar garciab
11:38 AM Liked: 33
post #74 of 82
05-09-2012 | Posts: 1,097
Joined: Aug 2001
This is a tough one to answer, and opinions will vary. To me, there is not enough room for the proper hardware for a heavier driver. I wish manufacturers would use baskets with a bigger 'flange' to allow room for t-nuts and such. So I've just screwed into the mdf itself for all of my builds so far, making sure to drill the proper pilot hole. I think you'll be ok this way for the 15" HF. Will it be downfiring, or sidefiring? If you think you need better mounting (usually only needed if you plan multiple removals), I'd look for threaded inserts made for mdf.
Jay1's Avatar Jay1
12:35 PM Liked: 134
post #75 of 82
05-09-2012 | Posts: 4,201
Joined: Aug 2002
If you dont want to deal with any nuts, pilot drill your holes then squirt gorilla glue into each hole. Make sure you let the glue fully expand/harden before driving the screw. This gives a solid contact for the threads, and you can repeat the step in the future if you take out the driver so much that it strips.
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG
06:50 PM Liked: 372
post #76 of 82
05-09-2012 | Posts: 6,029
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmn107 View Post

Another noob question. What is the best option for mounting the driver into the MDF. T-nut or I also saw hurricane nuts? Which is the best for use in MDF or is there a better option than those 2.

Like the guys said, make sure you drill a pilot hole about half the size of you screws. For future builds you may want to think about using plywood for the mounting section. I would not use hurricane nuts in MDF. i've done it and although quite a few buiulds turned out fine, the one that doesn't, is enough so that you'll never use them again.
bluestang's Avatar bluestang
01:56 PM Liked: 10
post #77 of 82
05-23-2012 | Posts: 104
Joined: Sep 2011
Hey tmn107....

Any updates on how the build is going or are you done?

If your done, what's your conclusion on your choice?

Thanks!
Jrunr's Avatar Jrunr
08:19 PM Liked: 12
post #78 of 82
06-03-2012 | Posts: 917
Joined: Feb 2006
Can these subs be placed in small cubic ft boxes and still sound good? If I were to put them in a 1.25-1.5^3 ft enclosure with a dayton SA-1000 amp, how well do you think I could get it to perform for ht?
tmn107's Avatar tmn107
02:34 PM Liked: 10
post #79 of 82
06-04-2012 | Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 2010
I have been very busy lately, so I haven't accomplished much in the past few weeks. Right now the MDF part of the enclosure is almost done. I just need to add some more bracing inside before I enclose the box. Hopefully I will have some time this upcoming weekend to finish putting the box together besides the finish.
tmn107's Avatar tmn107
07:32 AM Liked: 10
post #80 of 82
07-08-2012 | Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 2010
I have just finished getting the box put together and put the amp and driver in for the first time. It sounded pretty good, but since I won't get to test it with my setup I won't really know for sure how it turned out. One thing I did notice, as it didn't seem very loud compared to some videos that I have been watching that use this driver and amp combo. It could just be that I was using the LFE channel on a system that I didn't really know how it was setup, but it seemed like I had to turn the volume up on the amp quite a bit before it was even getting moderately loud. I will be able to tell much better when I get it home with me.

Now I just need to put the finishing wood on it and I'll be all done and ready to listen to it!
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi
08:17 AM Liked: 170
post #81 of 82
07-08-2012 | Posts: 3,771
Joined: Jul 2007

Whats the Q of your box?  You might want to fill with polyfill if you havent already thought of that.....  Depending on your Q you might want a little more or less.

 

Dang I'm sorry I missed the driver debate :P


UNICRON-WMD's Avatar UNICRON-WMD
09:56 AM Liked: 13
post #82 of 82
07-08-2012 | Posts: 1,822
Joined: Jan 2005
I feel the real true advantage of the HFs over the Titanics is multiples. You can buy 8 HFs and power them cheaper then 6 Titanics.

I run 8 HFs in my theater with just a little over 400watts each driver in "small" 4.2cuft cabs and they sound great and very clean. I have 1" foam on all interior walls and 5lbs of polyfil per driver. They are amp limited which also helps keep everything clean and safe. At the seats, I can hit 118db at 10hz and 122-124db with movie content before the amps start clipping.

The HF drivers are no slouches and I would recommend 2-4 of them to anyone. biggrin.gif

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