18" sub box from PE - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I wanted to be a little more creative so I was thinking of trying to build a somewhat custom sub setup.. I don't have enough room for a table saw or enough room to even really work with a whole sheet of wood (4x8).. So I was thinking of starting with this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=245-328

And adding some extra supports to it.. then I was thinking of either going with 2 of the dayton 18 classic subs (cut another 18" hole on the top section of the above box) or just going with a ported 15" dayton titanic (just get 1 sheet of wood cut at lowes/home depot to add to the front for 15" hole)..

so it would be one of these solutions
1) 2x http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-475
2) 1x http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-420

What I'm wondering is if this would work and if I could do ported solution for BOTH #1 and #2 as it is going to be mostly for home theater. From what I can tell a 5 ft^3 box that was ported would work for the 15".. not sure about the 2 18's...

thanks,
Mike
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post #2 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 12:24 PM
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Have you seen the subwoofer flatpacks erich is going to offer soon?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=150
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 01:28 PM
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The titanic 15 likes a much larger box for vented, sealed would be better for 5ft3. You're also not going to be able to properly vent that enclosure using round ports for high output 15"s. You would have to tune to around 24hz to fit a pair of 4" ports in there, and that still isn't ideal for air velocity.

The box is extremely undersized for a pair of DCS450's, and you would have either a 2ohm or 8ohm load to deal with.


I would stick with sealed and use the Yung 500W amp with boost on the the titanic. You could also use this Fane Colossus 18 which will give you more above 40hz, but perform the same as the titanic below that.
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post #4 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Have you seen the subwoofer flatpacks erich is going to offer soon?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=150

They look like great boxes... I might consider them Just was checking out PE awhile back.. I also saw 1 time someone used this box on the 18" LMS-R ... I wanted to do something similar but I'm working keeping my budget down a bit...
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The titanic 15 likes a much larger box for vented, sealed would be better for 5ft3. You're also not going to be able to properly vent that enclosure using round ports for high output 15"s. You would have to tune to around 24hz to fit a pair of 4" ports in there, and that still isn't ideal for air velocity.

The box is extremely undersized for a pair of DCS450's, and you would have either a 2ohm or 8ohm load to deal with.


I would stick with sealed and use the Yung 500W amp with boost on the the titanic. You could also use this Fane Colossus 18 which will give you more above 40hz, but perform the same as the titanic below that.


Jay1.. thanks for the input... This was the info I was looking for.. I was hoping to be able to do a vented solution but I'd have to get a box made by someone else.. I was actually considering this in the past.

I'm using this in my basement which is a 14x20 room and I think around 8 foot ceilings.. I'm hoping to get enough 20 Hz goodness for movies and I'm hoping the 15" sealed titanic solution will provide enough.. Also thanks for pointing out that amp.. never noticed it before on PE.. nice price for the wattage/stats..

thanks,
Mike
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 02:24 PM
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I think you'll do fine, depending on how loud you listen. My pair of boosted 15"s are in a 22x22x8 room with good results. The boosted Titanic will have an f3 of 23hz and reach 108 db before compression (below 30hz will be maxed, above 30hz will be capable of 6db more output).
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-17-2012, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I think you'll do fine, depending on how loud you listen. My pair of boosted 15"s are in a 22x22x8 room with good results. The boosted Titanic will have an f3 of 23hz and reach 108 db before compression (below 30hz will be maxed, above 30hz will be capable of 6db more output).

Before I commit on the 15" titanic I was also looking at these:

http://www.amazon.com/AUDIO-SX18-SER...7302848&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/New--AUDIO-SX1...7302848&sr=8-3

not sure which one to get (similar models, but different looking).. I'd like to try to use the same box from PE (5 cubic foot). Also I could keep the hole cut for 18" and not have to redo the front baffle.. I have never used a RE Audio sub before... and I have a very limited experience with dayton stuff.. The only other option I'm aware of is the 15" LMS-R..

Guess I'm just looking at all my options before I commit..

thanks,
Mike
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-17-2012, 07:00 PM
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The Titanic is a great driver! very capable for a HT. I just built two subs for a friend and they sounded great. He's been beating the crap out of them for a week or so and says he hasn't found their limits in his room yet. Can't say anything about RE audio stuff other than the xxx 15 that I has in my car a few years ago. Great sub!

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post #9 of 24 Old 05-17-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeciccarelli View Post

Before I commit on the 15" titanic I was also looking at these:

http://www.amazon.com/AUDIO-SX18-SER...7302848&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/New--AUDIO-SX1...7302848&sr=8-3

not sure which one to get (similar models, but different looking).. I'd like to try to use the same box from PE (5 cubic foot). Also I could keep the hole cut for 18" and not have to redo the front baffle.. I have never used a RE Audio sub before... and I have a very limited experience with dayton stuff.. The only other option I'm aware of is the 15" LMS-R..

Guess I'm just looking at all my options before I commit..

thanks,
Mike

Unless you want to switch your power option to a big pro amp and EQ, I dont think those would be a great match for a 500 watt plate amp. It's all about your budget here, you can do a lot of different things...
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-17-2012, 10:31 PM
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For example you could place a 3" port in each front corner, (I would rear port) 4 total, 20" long, and take something like this FI BL18 D2 (scroll down, and make sure to select daily and internal lead), and feed it the full 2K watts from a 4 ohm bridged behringer EP4000 with the 30hz HPF engaged. You would have insane output above 25hz for an $800 build.
LL
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

For example you could place a 3" port in each front corner, (I would rear port) 4 total, 20" long, and take something like this FI BL18 D2 (scroll down, and make sure to select daily and internal lead), and feed it the full 2K watts from a 4 ohm bridged behringer EP4000 with the 30hz HPF engaged. You would have insane output above 25hz for an $800 build.

I actually have a pro amp in my normal living room running a jl 10w7 and a tc sound epic 10.. I had to buy the art cleanbox II cause i couldn't get rid of the hum.. it works well but i've heard it cuts the lower end off too much yada yada yada... I bought a "green" 6 way that turns on my amp and cleanbox when the main home theater amp gets turned on (this actually works well as a cheap relay)..

That being said I wouldn't mind going to the EP4000. Couple of requests though maybe you could help out with suggestions..

1) chances are I'm going to get hum from ep4000.. whats the best way to remedy this.. I don't mind buying some extras but I really don't want to modify the amp (aka would like to keep the warranty). Also don't want to lose bottom end.. Also dont really want to run a separate electrical line and it doesn't seem like grounding to amp usually fixes the problem.. I dont care about FAN noise in my setup as this is going to be used with a projector (fan noise from that)..

2) I'm really liking the ported FI solution using the PE box and porting.. I'm actually trying to find a way to use that box with ports.. I have never used an FI sub and their website seems kinda wonky (uses ssl by default and prompts you a million times about ssl)... Maybe I'll send them an email to get a phone number to call... Otherwise how do I work with them on warranty issues (website only?)

So if I can get #1 all fixed up I might be opened to other sub suggestions using the 5^3 foot box from PE.. Ultimately I'd like to keep a budget under 1k but I don't mind finding the cheapest route while maintaining a good setup..

thanks,
Mike
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 11:10 AM
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I don't really know anything about moding an ep4000. Do you know what the cleanbox roll off is? The ported sub with the bl18 was only really good to 25hz. If you want to go deeper I do think a boosted sealed sub would work better, but you can see the output capability of ported.

Edit: if you get a minidsp you could also set a HPF lower then 30hz for stronger output
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 11:29 AM
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You can mod the cleanbox to be flat to 5hz. I've done 10 of them and actually have one still sitting here from my last install. Or you could go with something like a minidsp or mic2200 would work also.
the humming isn't from the amp, it's from your electrical not being grounded properly straight from the source. I have 8 ep amps and none make a peep at any volume level but they did until I fixed the grounding problem I had to begin with. Emotiva makes noise isolating power distributors for $89 that would solve that problem. They work very well also.

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post #14 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You can mod the cleanbox to be flat to 5hz. I've done 10 of them and actually have one still sitting here from my last install. Or you could go with something like a minidsp or mic2200 would work also.
the humming isn't from the amp, it's from your electrical not being grounded properly straight from the source. I have 8 ep amps and none make a peep at any volume level but they did until I fixed the grounding problem I had to begin with. Emotiva makes noise isolating power distributors for $89 that would solve that problem. They work very well also.

Can you link me the minidsp? It might be a good option.. I think i went with the cleanbox for 2 reasons

1) it did get rid of the hum
2) it allowed me to split the rca's out so I could continue to use my normal powered sub and also add the crown power amp and I didn't have to crank up the sub out..

but if I can use the minidsp to fix 1 and 2 above then I'd go for it (specially if it was flat to 5 hz, heck I might buy 2 of them).

Mike
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post #15 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 12:40 PM
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The mod is super easy as long as you can solder for the cleanbox, it's about $2 worth of parts but I'm unsure if the same mod that works with the cleanbox will work with the cleanbox 2. :
http://www.minidsp.com/
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHMIC2200
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496 I have this for my system and it's sweet but expensive.

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post #16 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The mod is super easy as long as you can solder.
http://www.minidsp.com/
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHMIC2200
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496 I have this for my system and it's sweet but expensive.

I might have bought the wrong one originally (for my living room setup).. I bought this one:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/ART-CLEA...d=cleanbox+pro

I'm guessing I can't mod this one.. I don't know if they cut it off at 18 hz or not either.. bummer..
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post #17 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 01:11 PM
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actually the cleanbox has a documented rolloff that is substantial enough for a HPF around 20hz. an elemental designs eq.2 or a behringer mic220 which are both cheaper than a minidsp will all do the job as well and grant you up to two bands of eq should you want them I have each of these at the moment, and not using any of them if anyone wants to purchase one of them

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post #18 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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actually the cleanbox has a documented rolloff that is substantial enough for a HPF around 20hz. an elemental designs eq.2 or a behringer mic220 which are both cheaper than a minidsp will all do the job as well and grant you up to two bands of eq should you want them I have each of these at the moment, and not using any of them if anyone wants to purchase one of them

Ok so I need someone to test or let me know if the Art Cleanbox PRO cuts off under 20 Hz.. I can buy one of those for 65 bucks and it does what I need it to do when I use a pro-amp (ep4000).

Anyone ever do any testing with a Cleanbox PRO? (this is different than the cleanbox 2).

thanks,
Mike
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post #19 of 24 Old 05-18-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeciccarelli View Post

Ok so I need someone to test or let me know if the Art Cleanbox PRO cuts off under 20 Hz..

You can do this yourself using REW. Instead of measuring speakers you measure the cleanbox. Most desktop computers have a line-input and line output which is all that you need plus some cables.

This should get you started.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/room...dcard.html#top
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post #20 of 24 Old 06-01-2012, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I got the art cleanbox pro and ep4000.. Next I have to decide on what driver(s) to use.. I was thinking maybe going with 2 12's rather than 1 15.. And I'm probably just going to be making my own box (getting large cuts done at lowes or home depot). I can finish them up at home..

So at this point.. What drivers are available? I'm probably going to stay away from dayton stuff.. Was thinking TC sounds (maybe either 1 12 or 1 15). Also I don't want to use any proaudio drivers.. Would like to stick to standard high xmax based subs.

Seems like http://www.istonline.ca/mach5_ixl_15.html would be awesome but out of stock and I live in US.. So I'm just looking for suggestions at this point...

thanks,
Mike
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post #21 of 24 Old 06-01-2012, 07:28 PM
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Well I'm not sure exactly what you're wanting, but here's a little comparison of the LMSR15 vs BL18. Both in 8ft3, LMSR 20hz, BL18 25hz, both with 1200 watts and a 20hz HPF.

Something like a 24" x 25.5" x 31" box with an 8" x 21" sonotube port would get you there for the BL18. Four 24" x 31" panels would get you the four sides, then you would need 24" x 22.5" panels for the top/bottom and braces.

Edit: not sure why I didn't use 2k watts for the model, but add 2db to each driver.
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post #22 of 24 Old 06-02-2012, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Well I'm not sure exactly what you're wanting, but here's a little comparison of the LMSR15 vs BL18. Both in 8ft3, LMSR 20hz, BL18 25hz, both with 1200 watts and a 20hz HPF.

Something like a 24" x 25.5" x 31" box with an 8" x 21" sonotube port would get you there for the BL18. Four 24" x 31" panels would get you the four sides, then you would need 24" x 22.5" panels for the top/bottom and braces.

Edit: not sure why I didn't use 2k watts for the model, but add 2db to each driver.

Would the Q series be any better? they have a bigger xmax? I sent Fi an email and am waiting to hear back.. I'm a bit concerned about dealing with them but I like the look of their products... My amp will be here tuesday so I'm planning on getting something soon.. Seems like Fi is backed up.. I dont want to have to wait 3-4 weeks before something even ships...

I guess that's why I was asking what other options I have using the ep4000... trying to say at or around $400 for a driver. When I was using winISD I could get away with a 5cf box with a 4"x15" port using the 15" LMS-R.. But I should go larger?

thanks,
Mike
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post #23 of 24 Old 06-02-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeciccarelli View Post

Would the Q series be any better? they have a bigger xmax? I sent Fi an email and am waiting to hear back.. I'm a bit concerned about dealing with them but I like the look of their products... My amp will be here tuesday so I'm planning on getting something soon.. Seems like Fi is backed up.. I dont want to have to wait 3-4 weeks before something even ships...

I guess that's why I was asking what other options I have using the ep4000... trying to say at or around $400 for a driver. When I was using winISD I could get away with a 5cf box with a 4"x15" port using the 15" LMS-R.. But I should go larger?

thanks,
Mike


You can do whatever you think will work for you, that's the beauty of diy. A single 4" port with 2k watts behind it is going to have about 70 m/s air velocity. The rule of thumb is 17 m/s for no port noise, I would at least try to stay under 30 m/s at the minimum. Smaller boxes make it harder to use large ports, and I doubt you want to deal with a slot port, that's why I went to 8 ft3 with an 8" port.

A 5ft3 box with a pair of 4" x 28" ports would work well for a TC Epic 12 powered by 600 watts from each channel of the ep4000. You could build two.
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post #24 of 24 Old 06-02-2012, 10:30 AM
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there are many solutions.

the alpine swr-1243d is a good one.

http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/swr-1243d

each driver gets 4 cubic feet of space and a 4" x 18" port for a 20hz tuning, build one large box or two smaller boxes, it doesn't matter.

two of them will give you 118db from 20hz up.

if you poke around a bit you might be able to find them for under $120 ea delivered.

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