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post #1 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to make a diy sub. Music / theatre 40 / 60.

Looking to play down to 20hz. Would prefer if the box size was less then 6 cubic feet but open to suggestions. Challenge is I live in Canada so need companies who reside there as shipping and duty is crazy. Would also prefer 12 volt trigger for plate amps but again open for bang for buck.


Current set up is 7.1 as follows:
Anthem mrx 300 avr
Bryston 4b
Bryston 9b
Paradigm studio - 60 v5
Paradigm - 690 centre
Paradigm ultra cube 12
Adp 590 surrounds

Price complete - 1k
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post #2 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 05:48 PM
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Build two of these

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=Quartet12
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post #3 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 06:02 PM
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get a pair of UXL-18s, put them in a 6 cubic foot box, dual opposed. Get an ep4000 amp, and build a relay box for it. This should come in around your budget and offer the best bass for the price.

http://www.istonline.ca/mach5_uxl_18.html
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post #4 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 06:06 PM
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I like notnyt's idea.
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post #5 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Build two of these

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=Quartet12


I'm sure that these sound amazing but I just have a hard time getting used to those PR's. They make adjustments extremely easy but are a bit hard on the eyes.
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post #6 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input so far!

Where would i find specs on the box design for the dual uxl 18's and is there a place in Canada who sells the behringer?

What would you suspect this combo to produce as it looks like it would be about 50 percent more then my budget
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post #7 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I'm sure that these sound amazing but I just have a hard time getting used to those PR's. They make adjustments extremely easy but are a bit hard on the eyes.

Yeah the mass loading apparatus is pretty awkward looking... These PRs are an amazing deal though. The price to Xlim to adjustment ratio is unmatched for the 15" version.
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post #8 of 112 Old 05-06-2012, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niners View Post

Thanks for the input so far!

Where would i find specs on the box design for the dual uxl 18's and is there a place in Canada who sells the behringer?

What would you suspect this combo to produce as it looks like it would be about 50 percent more then my budget

6cu sealed box, you can get behringers used for cheap all over the place.
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post #9 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 06:32 AM
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i'm not sure the the dual uxl in 6 cubic feet with one behringer amp is the best plan.

the driver is 4 ohms, so that means one per channel and that drops power to about 650 watts per driver.

with only 3 feet per driver, the sub has a pretty steep rolloff, so will need both big power as well as an eq to bring up the bottom end.

an alternative is to go with one driver in a ported enclosure, but you will still need some sort of high pass filter.

here is a comparison of the non-equalized response of 2 drivers in 6 cubes sealed (green) and 1 driver in 5 cubes ported (to allow 1 cubic foot for the port, which may be a little low, red). both with 2000 watts, although the sealed will be about 2 db lower because it will only get a total of 1300 watts.

so if you are mostly concerned with 20hz up, want to save some money, and don't mind building a little more complicated enclosure, the single driver ported sub would seem to be the better choice.
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post #10 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 06:37 AM
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I modded my EP4000 to have an internal 12v trigger..... Cheap power.

I posted the how to in here would link ya but im on phone.....

Don't waste time reading signatures.....
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post #11 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 07:48 AM
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Can you build two subs ? I like colocated power, but would like the options given to multiple placement and a smoother response yada,yada,yada.......
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post #12 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 07:56 AM
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also, i forgot to mention in my previous post that there is an effect called pressure vessel gain. it occurs where the 1/2 wavelength of the bass is greater than the long diagonal dimension of your room. for a medium sized room, this tends to be around 25hz or so. below that point, the room tends to provide quite a bit of natural boost. the model that i posted is for what is called 2pi space, as though you measured the sub in the middle of a field with zero pressure vessel gain. the sealed sub takes greatest advantage of this effect.

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post #13 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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i am looking for both low end base and higher DB when i listen to music. The room size is pretty large 15 wide 9.5 ft high and 35 ft long.

I am not a perfectionist really looking for something that sounds good for my split 60/40 Movies music and hits hard and not booming in sound.
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post #14 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 10:09 AM
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with that large of a room, the pressure vessel gain effects won't be kicking in until down in the low teens.

"booming" won't come out of a well designed sub, ported or sealed. booming is usually a function of the room. rooms have "modes" which are natural frequencies where they combine to make big peaks or big suckouts in the frequency response. big peaks are often accompanied by a slow decay rate in time. that is really where most of the "mud" comes from in bass.

by putting a second sub in a different location, those peaks and dips can often be smoothed out quite a bit, hence the suggestion above for two indivual subs if that is possible.

also, paradigm cheats on specs like nobody i've seen and i've owned them so i'm not a hater, just saying. don't use their specs to compare with anything that you see posted here. very few cheaters here.

just to provide some sense of comparisons, i've added my best guess for the paradigm sub (purple) that you have to the two uls designs already discussed and threw in a "go big" option--two eight cubic foot ported enclosures tuned to 16hz that each house a jbl w15gti sub (they go for a little over $300 here) (orange). these responses are naked, and the orange, red, and purple will all require a steeper rolloff than is shown.

the w15gti is a super clean sub btw.
LL

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post #15 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

also, i forgot to mention in my previous post that there is an effect called pressure vessel gain. it occurs where the 1/2 wavelength of the bass is greater than the long diagonal dimension of your room. for a medium sized room, this tends to be around 25hz or so. below that point, the room tends to provide quite a bit of natural boost. the model that i posted is for what is called 2pi space, as though you measured the sub in the middle of a field with zero pressure vessel gain. the sealed sub takes greatest advantage of this effect.

That is no joke, here is the net of all my subs, sealed as mentioned.....NO L/T !!!!!!



Here's a close mic of main subs, just to show the cabin gain...

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post #16 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 12:06 PM
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great data kg; what are the dimensions of your room again?

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post #17 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
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great data kg; what are the dimensions of your room again?

13.5 X 15 X 9 The room is dedicated so no openings
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post #18 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 01:21 PM
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pvg should be kicking in around 26hz or so in your room. lo and behold...it does. great data btw.

the op won't get that kind of gain until down around 14hz or so given his largish room.

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post #19 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
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is there a place in Canada who sells the behringer?

Online? Axe Music: http://www.axemusic.com/prodtype.asp...earchCriteria=
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post #20 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Ltd02 they all look retry good I will post my actual from arc when I get home
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post #21 of 112 Old 05-07-2012, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Nickshitachi - can you post your how to 12v trigger for the behringer.

Thanks in advance
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post #22 of 112 Old 05-08-2012, 03:18 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=ep4000+12v

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post #23 of 112 Old 05-08-2012, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Nicks! that looks pretty simple

Attached is my actual sub results today
LL
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post #24 of 112 Old 05-09-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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What are your thoughts on a tcsound lms right 15 dvc in a sealed 3.5 cf box with an ep4000.

Is the ep4000 enough power
Would I need a separate each or would arc satisfy once I run the test. If I need an equally what would you recommend

Any insights appreciated. Getting closet ordering
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post #25 of 112 Old 05-09-2012, 05:23 PM
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light blue line, 2000 watts, 15" lms-r, 3.5 cubes sealed, raw response added to the others.
LL

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post #26 of 112 Old 05-09-2012, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Ltdo2 what software is that you are using as I would like to plot a few to learn more.

Thanks for your help
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post #27 of 112 Old 05-09-2012, 06:09 PM
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it is a freeware program called winisd, mine is the alpha pro version.

http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro

the next question that you will ask is why you get errors when entering new drivers.

make sure all fields are clear, then
enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material
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post #28 of 112 Old 05-10-2012, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I have made my decision. 2 mach5 ixl 15's run with a behringer ep4000. I will post pics along the way once I start
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post #29 of 112 Old 05-10-2012, 06:00 PM
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The IXL's are currently out of stock it looks like.
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post #30 of 112 Old 05-10-2012, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I wrote mark and he said they would be in soon. So I am hoping to start on the box.
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