Powersoft K10 VS Lab 6400 VS Crown IT8k, and the winner is... - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 05-08-2012, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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IMO the answer is: it is a mixed bag, there is no super clear winner here!

They are all clearly 1-10 second "burst" amplifiers, they need to recharge their capacitors and cool their heat sinks in between these bursts.

But overall the K10 has my vote, because it has 10% more efficiency, double the power density, and the limiter doesn't choke as much after 2 minutes.

The IT8K and K10 burst some impressive numbers. In bridge mode they will all deliver north of 10,000watts for a few hundred miliseconds; and hold something "near" that for ~10 seconds. More than enough to blow up any subwoofer.

240v/30amp almost sounds "required" if pushing hard, or at least a 15-20.
(Double for 120v)

I'm sure the FP14K is up in that range too...
Does anyone have graphs of the FP14k?
(It's almost unfair to compare these two against a 6.4k; a bit beyond its league.)







I run my IT8000 in dual 1-ohm and it seems fine with this.

I have never experienced this power "limiting" with it... and I've played bass tunes on it for so long (like 6 hours non-stop) that my LMS-18 started overheating.

I had to turn it down because of the LMS, not the amp. It was mostly half excursion and whole time too. Never clipped or overheated once during this; it would have easily kept on going to the LMS's demise long-term.

If this is true, a K20 would have killed a pair of LMS's without even giving it a second thought.

One day I have to try me a FP14k clone just to see what she can do... because if you never try, you never know.
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post #2 of 17 Old 05-09-2012, 01:05 PM
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that is one of the coolest amp posts that i've ever seen. somebody might ask how they perform as you head down toward single digits, but great stuff! i really like the output power vs. time plots. if i had those amps, i'm quite sure that i wouldn't be brave enough to perform these tests.

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post #3 of 17 Old 05-10-2012, 08:39 AM
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I really like my k10's. Great efficiency and heavy handed with low impedance loads especially on a 240v line. The couple of times I used an itech8k it was impressive as well.

John the roll off on a k10 is about -3dB at 5hz and -7 or so by 3Hz if I recall. Its been awhile since I took that measurement. Not sure if I ever posted it. It certainly seems to have the power down low.

Where did these measurements come from?
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post #4 of 17 Old 05-10-2012, 10:49 AM
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Nice, thanks for sharing.

Any of those three is entirely worthy of their intended application.

Is anyone familiar with the -3dB point on the Crown? I'd read both the Powersoft and the Lab are solid way, way deep. However there's (mis)information floating around regarding the hi-pass filtering on-board the Crowns,....anyone know for sure?



Thanks

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post #5 of 17 Old 05-10-2012, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Is anyone familiar with the -3dB point on the Crown? I'd read both the Powersoft and the Lab are solid way, way deep. However there's (mis)information floating around regarding the hi-pass filtering on-board the Crowns,....anyone know for sure?

Thanks

I know for sure that the iTech is basically ruler flat to at least 10hz which approaches the limits of my pre-amp, as such I can't test lower than that with any degree of certainty.

I'm not really into the "chasing single digits" game, but the lowest Hz I've made the amp do is 6hz, which is the absolute limit of my pre-amp.


(As for other Crown makes and models... no idea man.)
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post #6 of 17 Old 05-11-2012, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

I'm not really into the "chasing single digits" game, but the lowest Hz I've made the amp do is 6hz, which is the absolute limit of my pre-amp.

I watched that video 7 times on repeat. I can't wait to start breaking my house...

Sorry I have no real substance to contribute. Still trying to sponge everything up.
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post #7 of 17 Old 05-11-2012, 11:46 AM
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What is up with how the wall is flexing? It doesnt look like something is right with the construction here? It looks like the wall isnt attached all the way to the ceiling, like it stops short of the drywall which is attached to the ceiling?

But rather kool in any case!

OH, maybe I see now. Is it a double door with a floating mull post?
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post #8 of 17 Old 05-11-2012, 12:39 PM
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post #9 of 17 Old 05-11-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

You should test the fp14k clones

Not, I offered to send him one, but he is a little further out than I thought to make it worth it! aka "closer to Russia than NC" haha. Id still love to see the results...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #10 of 17 Old 05-11-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

What is up with how the wall is flexing? It doesnt look like something is right with the construction here? It looks like the wall isnt attached all the way to the ceiling, like it stops short of the drywall which is attached to the ceiling?

But rather kool in any case!

OH, maybe I see now. Is it a double door with a floating mull post?

I am afraid for the bathroom mirror in the adjacent room, one of these days it is gonna come crashing down and split someones head wide open...

Yep they are French-style double doors, with pins at the top and bottom with a lock in the middle, and they still move.

6Hz is apparently the natural resonance of this room
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post #11 of 17 Old 01-30-2015, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
IMO the answer is: it is a mixed bag, there is no super clear winner here!

They are all clearly 1-10 second "burst" amplifiers, they need to recharge their capacitors and cool their heat sinks in between these bursts.

But overall the K10 has my vote, because it has 10% more efficiency, double the power density, and the limiter doesn't choke as much after 2 minutes.

The IT8K and K10 burst some impressive numbers. In bridge mode they will all deliver north of 10,000watts for a few hundred miliseconds; and hold something "near" that for ~10 seconds. More than enough to blow up any subwoofer.

240v/30amp almost sounds "required" if pushing hard, or at least a 15-20.
(Double for 120v)

I'm sure the FP14K is up in that range too...
Does anyone have graphs of the FP14k?
(It's almost unfair to compare these two against a 6.4k; a bit beyond its league.)







I run my IT8000 in dual 1-ohm and it seems fine with this.

I have never experienced this power "limiting" with it... and I've played bass tunes on it for so long (like 6 hours non-stop) that my LMS-18 started overheating.

I had to turn it down because of the LMS, not the amp. It was mostly half excursion and whole time too. Never clipped or overheated once during this; it would have easily kept on going to the LMS's demise long-term.

If this is true, a K20 would have killed a pair of LMS's without even giving it a second thought.

One day I have to try me a FP14k clone just to see what she can do... because if you never try, you never know.
Any chance you can update the pictures. They are broken.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-01-2015, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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2012? Old Thread Is Old.

Thank god for multi-terabyte disks that archive all the way back to the beginning of time itself:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwU...ew?usp=sharing
Google Drive should be good for another 3 years me thinks...
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post #13 of 17 Old 03-23-2015, 10:46 AM
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bump--so others can grab that pdf.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #14 of 17 Old 03-23-2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
bump--so others can grab that pdf.
I am a bit worried about trying to recreate my lower power experiment from a few weeks ago...

As I said before in another thread, I played around with REW's burst signal tests and tried to get good REW readings from a usb Umik into low frequencies under 10hz...

While I did not have the sub gains up much my fp14000 clone started to do funky things when the signal went below 7hz with a LT from a minidsp. The SPL was not pumped up much but below 7hz the amp level meters kept climbing up to about 4 and then lights on other circuits started to flicker a bit. Freaked me out a bit as I have a true 5 HP compressor on my garage circuit and even when it starts up it does not cause near the same pulse on the system. I think I could hear the FP sucking the juice, but I did not get much evidence from the mic...

I may try again in a few weeks, but I worry for the two sealed ftw-21s attached. I can't afford to burn coils...
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post #15 of 17 Old 03-24-2015, 02:47 AM
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some water heating elements in a bucket of water make a low cost heat sink for amp testing.
http://www.prosoundtraining.com/site...9_Amped_Up.pdf


http://www.prosoundtraining.com/site...ig-dummy-load/

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Last edited by LTD02; 03-24-2015 at 04:01 PM.
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post #16 of 17 Old 03-24-2015, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellarnoise View Post
I can't afford to burn coils...
Then stop trying to push limits.
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post #17 of 17 Old 03-24-2015, 06:22 PM
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Then stop trying to push limits.
True.
Funny thing was I was not trying to push limits. Gains down! Gains down!
I was just playing around with different measurements and trying to learn with too much power!
Think of an idiot with Thor's hammer hitting the Earth and having the deadblow hammer bouce back and hit the idiot wielder in the head! Guilty!
Maybe after another sub or 2 I will move on to other obsessions?
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