Keager's Quad RE XXX 18 Underfloor IB Build - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Well the title pretty much sums it up. Started with dual RE XXX 18's, and my better half came to my conclusion that the enclosures were going to be far too large. With my tail between my legs I looked for alternatives. That search brought me to thecultoftheinfinitelybaffled. A terrific forum all about infinite baffle subwoofers. I was instantly sold with the lack of a visible enclosure(but a hole in the floor), and from everybody that has heard one, says the sound quality is incredible.

I then thought, why just cut one hole in the floor of my house when I can cut two!?! I bought two more XXX 18's. This time they showed up with a different dust cap that said RE instead of XXX. I made a stink about it at first, then decided it didn't matter because nobody's gonna see them, and the company gave me a store credit for the inconvenience. I kinda like th RE caps better now

There will be two manifolds, each housing two drivers. this is going to be incredibly difficult to install due to the very tight crawlspace and wieght of the drivers, but I love a challenge. As I build, I will detail and photograph the hurdles I'll have to overcome. I start construction next weekend, post any questions or comments, and heres a few photos of the drivers, what they are replacing and the crazy packaging they are shipped in. have a great day!

Oh, and they will be powered by my LG clone FP14000!







keager is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 07:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Sick... Subscribed...

Nice choice of amps as well. Are your XXX dual 4ohm? Pushing anything lower that 2.8ohm per channel would be taking a risk on the clones. I'm sure you already knew that though.

 

popalock is offline  
post #3 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
They are dual 2ohm. Plan on running 4ohm stereo. Two drivers per channel. In infinite, the drivers require far less amp power. It is excursion limited, which in this case I have a.decent amount of excursion at my disposal.
keager is offline  
post #4 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 08:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

They are dual 2ohm. Plan on running 4ohm stereo. Two drivers per channel. In infinite, the drivers require far less amp power. It is excursion limited, which in this case I have a.decent amount of excursion at my disposal.

Understood. Pushing out a little over 2k watts per channel should keep the amp safe for sure. I haven't researched IB setup as much as other people have, but are we sure feeding your XXX half of their rms in an IB setup would maximize their potential?

 

popalock is offline  
post #5 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
If for some reason it isn't enough power, I have a crown xls 5000 here on standby. I thought the lg does 4400x2 infour ohm stereo. Maybe thats 2 ohm stereo I'm thinking of.....
keager is offline  
post #6 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 08:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

If for some reason it isn't enough power, I have a crown xls 5000 here on standby. I thought the lg does 4400x2 infour ohm stereo. Maybe thats 2 ohm stereo I'm thinking of.....

You are correct. However, that is why I asked if your XXX were dual 4 ohm, so you could wire a pair of them for your amp to see 4 ohm per channel. I forget if RE even offers a dual 4 ohm option for their XXX line. I think I remember one of their older competition lines (was it the MT series) offered more VC options.

Anyway, for 2 subs per channel your options would be as follows:

If you had dual 4 ohm your options would be:
1 ohm
4 ohm or
16 ohm

Since you have dual 2 ohm, your options will be:
0.5 ohm
2 ohm or
8 ohm

You could always get another Clone. Driving matching subs with different amps would personally drive me crazy...

 

popalock is offline  
post #7 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
So if i had two subs wired in series per channel, it would result in a 2 ohm load? I guess I'll cross that bridge when i get to it. Ifirc, even with 1kw per driver, they will do very well. They aren't having to work against the air pressure of an enclosure. Thanks for the heads up!
keager is offline  
post #8 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 08:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
WiSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Take a serious look at the Ashly KLR amps. I have a pair of 3200s available pretty cheap.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

WiSounds is offline  
post #9 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 09:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

So if i had two subs wired in series per channel, it would result in a 2 ohm load? I guess I'll cross that bridge when i get to it. Ifirc, even with 1kw per driver, they will do very well. They aren't having to work against the air pressure of an enclosure. Thanks for the heads up!

Given the limitations of the Clone, your only option is to wire each subs VC in series then series the subs together for a 8 ohm load.

In a sealed application, you would need more power. I can't comment on an IB install though. I'm sure there are many smarter than I that can weigh in on your specific application.

 

popalock is offline  
post #10 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 09:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
bodhisafa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 39046
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
How much are the RE xxx these days
bodhisafa is offline  
post #11 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
780 shipped
keager is offline  
post #12 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 10:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Wow. I don't remember ever seeing those drivers used in an IB. How much power does it take to reach xmax, free air?

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #13 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Its the first I have seen an attempt at IB with them. Modeling them in winisd with 1kw each, stays well below xmax and about 117db at 10hz with no hpf. Nice natural curve. I recommend everybody curious about IB subs to visit thecultoftheinfinitelybaffled. Good stuff there, and great knowledgable help.
keager is offline  
post #14 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

Its the first I have seen an attempt at IB with them. Modeling them in winisd with 1kw each, stays well below xmax and about 117db at 10hz with no hpf. Nice natural curve. I recommend everybody curious about IB subs to visit thecultoftheinfinitelybaffled. Good stuff there, and great knowledgable help.

That's serious man. Sounds great. I'll be checking back frequently for sure.

Hey, since you have winisd, have you tried modling them at their RMS? Seems to me the goal would be as close to xmax as possible to give you the headroom you need/want. Not sure about you, but the last thing I would want if I was undertaking such a feat is to still want more... Still have that itch.

Regardless, I know you are going to be happy and impressed.

 

popalock is offline  
post #15 of 341 Old 05-13-2012, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I would get more power out of running the crown at 2 ohm stereo vs running the clone at 8 ohm stereo.
keager is offline  
post #16 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 04:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

I would get more power out of running the crown at 2 ohm stereo vs running the clone at 8 ohm stereo.

So if you decided to take that avenue, you would be feeding each sub roughly:

Crown = 1,250 watts (2,500/2 @ 2 ohm Stereo)

vs.

Clone = 1,100 watts (2,200/2 @ 8 ohm Stereo)
(need a Clone owner to verify actual power output @ 8 ohms)

Looks like you might get slightly more power if you went that route, but your Crown would be working much much harder pushing a 2 ohm load.

Looking at your situation, it kinda sucks. If you were to try to implement both amps, you would have some major power differences.

For instance, if you ran a pair (2) of your XXX from your Crown for a 4 ohm load to each channel, you would be able to squeeze 1,800 watts to each sub. However, if you were to run the other pair from your Clone for a 4 ohm load to each channel, you would see 4,400 watts to each sub. That's a huge power variance. It might be something that wouldn't bother you, but I personally wouldn't mess with that.

I'm under the impression that you have already purchased the Clone. Is that the case? If not, it sounds like another XLS 5000 would be better suited for your application. On the other hand, if you already own the Clone, I would seriously consider purchasing another one for headroom/flexibility purposes. You know, just in case you get the itch to put those badboys in a sealed application. Either way, sounds like you might have "address" (throw more money at) your amp situation one way or another to maximize your XXX's potential.

My .02. Hope it helps, or at least gives you some other things to consider.

 

popalock is offline  
post #17 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Yes, I already have everything, as I wasnt originally planning an IB. So I'll figure out a way to deal to deal with it. I do also have a mini dsp to EQ the two different manifolds. I appreciate you taking the time to point these things out.
keager is offline  
post #18 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 06:25 AM
Member
 
homeboydeluxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Wow, just modelled these in WinISD, This is going to be an astonishing system! Those subs are insane in sheer size, its going to be a battle installing them, maybe you could fit in some sort of small hydraulic jack/trolley to get them in place in the manifold, and bolt them in, I would not like to imagine one of those coming through the ceiling!.

It seems you will have usable output down to 5Hz if the signal does not roll off through your various components.
homeboydeluxe is offline  
post #19 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 06:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Nice! Your mounting opposed right? I hope so!
NicksHitachi is online now  
post #20 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Yup, two dual opposed drivers in each manifold under the floor of my bottom level. The crawl space isnt much taller than the drivers, so, I wont need to really lift them into position luckily.
keager is offline  
post #21 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 06:46 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,356
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked: 688
Get another FP and use the crown for your LMS I'm subbed obviously!!! I wish I could go the IB route with my pair of those guys, that would greatly increase the efficiency of them. larger sealed boxes is where I think im headed though.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #22 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I'm selling the LMS so that I have no sub enclosures above ground and to help off set the cost of the XXX's. I might sell the clone and get another xls since the drivers will not need 4400 watts each and the clone will be easier to sell I think( and lighter to ship). Dunno, lots of ideas. Too bad the clone wont do 2ohm stereo. gonna focus on construction/installation this weekend because I'm wife/baby/10yr old free all weekend. Doesnt happen very often. If my closest neighbors can't handle a tablesaw at 6am, they definitely won't be cut out for the resulting subsonic assault. lol
keager is offline  
post #23 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

I'm selling the LMS so that I have no sub enclosures above ground and to help off set the cost of the XXX's. I might sell the clone and get another xls since the drivers will not need 4400 watts each and the clone will be easier to sell I think( and lighter to ship). Dunno, lots of ideas. Too bad the clone wont do 2ohm stereo. gonna focus on construction/installation this weekend because I'm wife/baby/10yr old free all weekend. Doesnt happen very often. If my closest neighbors can't handle a tablesaw at 6am, they definitely won't be cut out for the resulting subsonic assault. lol

Dibbs! PM sent.

I didn't realize you already had a Ultra in your arsenal. If you already had one, why not just get three more vs. buying four new RE XXX?
I know the XXX has more xmax, but from what I have heard a lot of the other users post, the LMS is more linear, with less distortion and better response. Of course, I might not have read that verbatim, but the jest of my research points to the LMS being a better all around performer.

Maybe your IB install will put the two beasts on more of a level playing field. Interesting...

 

popalock is offline  
post #24 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 09:18 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,356
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked: 688
popalock,

I would agree with this as the efficiency of the RE's as you get above 40hz greatly diminishes and in a sealed alignment, I am sucking an aweful lot from the amp with demanding bass tracks (music actually)

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
post #25 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I think they are on a more even playing field in an Ib with the main factor being displacement. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats what I picked up from the experts.
keager is offline  
post #26 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 09:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

Yup, two dual opposed drivers in each manifold under the floor of my bottom level. The crawl space isnt much taller than the drivers, so, I wont need to really lift them into position luckily.

How big is your IB cutout going to be? Are you at least going to be able to slide the subs through the hole you cut in your floor?

I mean, I guess technically your only real option would be to build the box, then install the subs afterwards unless you want your subs to lay in the crawl space while you build the box?

I couldn't image trying to manuver those things in a small crawl space... Sounds, exhausting.

Hey, if your crawl space is large enough to accomodate the XXX shipping tube, it might make it easer to use that and roll the sub into position vs. trying to shimmey it to your floor cutout.

 

popalock is offline  
post #27 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Ginna have to make a little plywood sled to pull the drivers to there location. Cutout is about 14x20, but the subs are 15 inches deep. Limited by floor joist spacing.
keager is offline  
post #28 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 10:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,477
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

Ginna have to make a little plywood sled to pull the drivers to there location. Cutout is about 14x20, but the subs are 15 inches deep. Limited by floor joist spacing.

Sounds like this is going to be a true labor of love for you. I'll check back after this weekend. Expecting some major updates...

Let me know about your spare LMS and Clone when you get the chance.

 

popalock is offline  
post #29 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
keager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Absolutely! Thanks for the advice and interest.
keager is offline  
post #30 of 341 Old 05-14-2012, 10:51 AM
The Truth Hz
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 7,356
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

I think they are on a more even playing field in an Ib with the main factor being displacement. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats what I picked up from the experts.

have you tried to free air one of them yet? Mine havent left the boxes since I put them in so I dont know what they will do outside the box. What i do know is that I dont even get CLOSE to xmax in the box and im running the fp14k as well...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beastaudio is online now  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off