Bad batch of Dayton drivers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 05-15-2012, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I just purchased a couple of Dayton Titanic 12" drivers. On both drivers the cone is not centered on the frame. Is this normal or acceptable? They are both glued all the way over to one side. The offset is about 3/16". Free air testing does not produce any audible defects like the voice coil rubbing, but the surround is dangerously close to the rubber gasket.

Has anyone else ordered any Dayton drivers from PE notice this also?

Driver with rubber gasket removed.


1/2" gap frame to surround.


11/16" gap frame to surround.


Driver with rubber gasket in place.


Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 19 Old 05-15-2012, 08:25 PM
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Well, I had bought 4 dayton drivers, 2 HO's and 2 titanics in the last month and both the HO's had problems. i fixed both myself but still. 1 HO's spider wasn't even glued to the basket! lol and the other had broken tinsle leads on both VC's lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #3 of 19 Old 05-15-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Any thoughts?

That looks like a$$ but if it runs without making bad noises it's just cosmetic.

Are those still made in the USA?

The cone is still going to be centered on the coil, but the surround may be glued unevenly to the basket or the cone may be sitting crooked on the coil junction causing the same problem.

Regards,
Dan
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

On both drivers the cone is not centered on the frame.

The cone must be centered, otherwise the voice coil would be off-center as well. If it was as far off center as the surround it wouldn't even fit into place. The surround being off-center may or may not cause a problem, and you'll only know by trying it. A defect is a defect, so you should have no problem getting it replaced even after mounting it to test it.

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post #5 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The cone must be centered, otherwise the voice coil would be off-center as well. If it was as far off center as the surround it wouldn't even fit into place. The surround being off-center may or may not cause a problem, and you'll only know by trying it. A defect is a defect, so you should have no problem getting it replaced even after mounting it to test it.

The cone looks to be centered in the surround, but I can see what you are getting at. Thing is, these have already been replaced by PE and if there is a bad batch of these drivers, there may be no point in asking for yet another replacement pair. From N8DOGG's post, I can't be confident that I would get a good pair this time around either.

My concern is the long term reliability of the drivers. It may not exhibit any problems now, but if the parts are not properly aligned then over time it may develop problems. Since the surround is just about touching the rubber gasket I fear over time the surround may get worn prematurely.

Are there any other 12 drivers that will work in a 1.25 ft^3 box comparably to these for near the same price? I have already built the boxes and would hate to have to start over again.
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post #6 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 07:15 AM
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I"d have the same concerns, and wouldn't accept them like that. I'd swap again, BUT only if they visually inspect the replacements. If not, I'd simply ask for a refund.

Good thing I read this thread...I was planning to order the sale-priced 12" HO. You've given me a good reason to hold off for now.

bg
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 07:21 AM
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It appears the motor wasn't properly centered when it was mounted to the frame. There is usually some amount of tolerance in exact placement, but that looks like some alignment holes were not quite right. So long as the spider and surround have plenty of glue area and are on flat surfaces, I would expect it to perform fine, but you should check if the surround rubs against the edge gasket when in use. It is likely they are plenty functional, just outside the expected range of variation and should be easy enough to return to PE for a refund if you don't want them.

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post #8 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garciab View Post

I"d have the same concerns, and wouldn't accept them like that. I'd swap again, BUT only if they visually inspect the replacements. If not, I'd simply ask for a refund.

Problem is, I am making these for my sister and brother-in-law as their house warming gift. They move in this weekend. The boxes are finished and I don't want to have to model and build another set of boxes for new drivers. I have enough MDF leftover to redo the front baffles, but that is about it.

Anyone know of any other drivers that will work comparably in a sealed 1.25 ft^3 box for under $200?
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

It appears the motor wasn't properly centered when it was mounted to the frame. There is usually some amount of tolerance in exact placement, but that looks like some alignment holes were not quite right. So long as the spider and surround have plenty of glue area and are on flat surfaces, I would expect it to perform fine, but you should check if the surround rubs against the edge gasket when in use. It is likely they are plenty functional, just outside the expected range of variation and should be easy enough to return to PE for a refund if you don't want them.

Thanks for the info Mark. Free air testing doesn't reveal any audible issues so far. The surround looks to be possibly touching the rubber mounting gasket. If I were to push the gasket in towards the center or down hard onto the frame (as what the screw might possibly do once mounted) then I can definitely see the surround get pushed in with it. That and the potential rubbing VC is what concerns me most.

PE has been great and has already replaced my first pair without requiring any proof or troubleshooting. This could either mean they are great in their return policy or that they are aware of the issue and will just take it back without any proof of issues. The problem with getting a refund and not a replacement is as I have mentioned. I've already built the boxes and am constrained in the size even if I do build new ones.
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post #10 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Problem is, I am making these for my sister and brother-in-law as their house warming gift. They move in this weekend. The boxes are finished and I don't want to have to model and build another set of boxes for new drivers. I have enough MDF leftover to redo the front baffles, but that is about it.

Anyone know of any other drivers that will work comparably in a sealed 1.25 ft^3 box for under $200?

The Trio12 from CSS models with a slightly higher Q in that box. What will be the amp for these boxes?

bg
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post #11 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garciab View Post

The Trio12 from CSS models with a slightly higher Q in that box. What will be the amp for these boxes?

Thanks for the recommendation. Unfortunately it won't work. Specs say it's designed to be in a 2.0 ft^3 box with 2 passive radiators. The boxes will be placed in wall pre-existing wall recesses that is why I was limited to ~16" cubes. I forget the exact dimensions. One is built into a closet so it can be opened up a bit, but the other is a fixed size.

He already has a Behringer iNuke 3000DSP for the subs.
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 10:32 AM
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I'm an amateur compared to the guys that actually build these speakers, but the Trio12 sims very close to the Titanic in that size of sealed enclosure. The Dayton ends up with a system Q of .77, and the Trio12 is .83. Just means it doesn't go as loud a few hz down, but it will have a little more output higher up. Woofer box design is all personal preference, some like Q's in the 0.5 to 0.6 range for home use. I'm saying the differences between these two woofers in your enclosure are negligible...ie, the Trio12 will definitely work fine by my estimates if you need another candidate.

Yes, I do realize that CSS claims it was designed specifically to work with their PR's. In fact, I will be buying that PR kit shortly. But some woofers are flexible enough to work in both type of enclosures.

Maybe one of the experts can chime in with an opinion, wouldn't hurt my feelings none if they disagree with me. I like learning from others who do this more than me.

The only other candidate that I can think of is the Dayton12 HO, but I'm sure you have reservations with Dayton quality right now. And you'd have to reduce the airspace since it likes an even smaller box for 'optimal' Q.

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post #13 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garciab View Post

I'm an amateur compared to the guys that actually build these speakers, but the Trio12 sims very close to the Titanic in that size of sealed enclosure. The Dayton ends up with a system Q of .77, and the Trio12 is .83. Just means it doesn't go as loud a few hz down, but it will have a little more output higher up. Woofer box design is all personal preference, some like Q's in the 0.5 to 0.6 range for home use. I'm saying the differences between these two woofers in your enclosure are negligible...ie, the Trio12 will definitely work fine by my estimates if you need another candidate.

Yes, I do realize that CSS claims it was designed specifically to work with their PR's. In fact, I will be buying that PR kit shortly. But some woofers are flexible enough to work in both type of enclosures.

Maybe one of the experts can chime in with an opinion, wouldn't hurt my feelings none if they disagree with me. I like learning from others who do this more than me.

The only other candidate that I can think of is the Dayton12 HO, but I'm sure you have reservations with Dayton quality right now. And you'd have to reduce the airspace since it likes an even smaller box for 'optimal' Q.

Thanks for doing all the leg work for me. I don't have time to model the different drivers right now to compare so I was just going on what I read. If I have some time tonight, I'll do a more detailed comparison with the different PE offerings and any other drivers people recommend.
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 11:55 AM
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Here's a link to a nice spreadsheet that I use now.

http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/WBCD.html

Good luck finding something that works...I'll let you know if I ever buy a new house. And please report back if you choose to give Dayton another chance. I'm concerned about their quality based on the small feedback here in this thread.

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post #15 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Are there any other 12 drivers that will work in a 1.25 ft^3 box comparably to these for near the same price? I have already built the boxes and would hate to have to start over again.

Infinity Kappa 120.9w or the Infinity Reference 1260 or 1262. The 126X are only $60 and are more than a solid performer.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #16 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Infinity Kappa 120.9w or the Infinity Reference 1260 or 1262. The 126X are only $60 and are more than a solid performer.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try modeling them tonight after work if I get a chance. I just got off the phone with PE and they wanted me to give them another chance at making it right. The rep said he'll have the warehouse go through their inventory and check for one that is centered before sending it out to me.

I'm hoping they don't find any as the $60 price sounds mighty good to me if it models comparably.
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post #17 of 19 Old 05-16-2012, 06:08 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try modeling them tonight after work if I get a chance. I just got off the phone with PE and they wanted me to give them another chance at making it right. The rep said he'll have the warehouse go through their inventory and check for one that is centered before sending it out to me.

I'm hoping they don't find any as the $60 price sounds mighty good to me if it models comparably.

Ironically if you swing over to the Part Express forums they are building the crap out of the Reference 1260s and there are a bunch of models there already done up plus some builds.

One TT member compared the 1260w to his TC Sounds 12 and let everyone know they are going to be happy with the Infinity.

I modeled a ported design that a member at AH just finished and posted pics and room response graph to.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #18 of 19 Old 05-18-2012, 07:43 AM
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So, N8DOGG, can you tell me if the Titanic and HO are made in the USA?

Jinjuku, nice find on that Infinity. I didn't expect it to model so well for HT, being a car sub and all. But it does match nicely. Great candidate for a very affordable HT sub for sure!

bg
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post #19 of 19 Old 05-18-2012, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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So PE has not responded back to me stating that they were able to find a good driver so I'm returning the ones I have for a refund. Just ordered the Infinity Reference 1260 since it modeled well and is designed for a 1.25 ft^3 box. Exactly what I have. I just hope the 11" cutout is enough since the specs show a 11.125" diameter. I suppose widening it won't be too difficult. The other big issue wold be the screw holes. I've already predrilled the holes and I hope they line up correctly.

Thanks again to everyone for all your help.
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