Econowave Deluxe build - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Nearly complete, I had posted this at parts express. Still need to put in the crossovers in the other two boxes, and gasket the back, then listen































jayhawk785 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 02:51 PM
Senior Member
 
superedge88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Love the look! The side Ports are a sexy addition, are you going to swap the speakers from side to side to see which direction is best for the port in your application/room? The speakers look a lot like my qsc kw122's. Can't wait to see what you think of these.
superedge88 is online now  
post #3 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 03:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Gorgeous.

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

XSim -free crossover designer and simulator
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bwaslo is online now  
post #4 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 04:00 PM
Senior Member
 
louisdamani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
NICE! I like the round overs for the woofer.
louisdamani is offline  
post #5 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 04:15 PM
Senior Member
 
robotbunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post

Gorgeous.

+1 Good stuff.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
robotbunny is offline  
post #6 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 04:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 358
Those came out really nice.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #7 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Thanks guys--I managed to get two finished this evening but haven't had time to get them tested out yet. I'll finish up the third tomorrow, and then give them a thorough listening

I'm moved from 6.2f swans +center, to 3 stentorians, and now these. The stentorians I like better than the swans--full sound, very detailed--and can get crazy loud without distortion. I'll be curious to see what these guys will do.

Only powering with a denon 4311--hopefully that will have enough punch to drive them and make them punchy
jayhawk785 is offline  
post #8 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 07:05 PM
Senior Member
 
superedge88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 12
What its the approximate sensitivity of these bad boys? I would think that you wouldn't need anything more than the 4311 since I bet those econo speakers probably are upwards of 97DB sensitive...?
superedge88 is online now  
post #9 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
superedge88, i'm not sure what these end up -- I'm sure they're north of 90db, unsure if zilch ever posted final sensitivity for them.
jayhawk785 is offline  
post #10 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 05:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Very nicely done. I look forward to hearing your impressions.
coctostan is offline  
post #11 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
finished all three--here they are in their temporary home--until I can build the wall forward to allow them to fit behind the screen. The subs will also be hidden then as well.

I haven't been able to listen to them much yet--but i turned audyssey off and listened to a couple clips--they're very detailed and have a decent bit of punch. Hopefully I'll have a chance tomorrow to listen a bit more and calibrate/measure.

jayhawk785 is offline  
post #12 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 06:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
NWCgrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 89
That looks like a nice setup...I like the side ports, reminds me of Penngrey's version from a couple of years ago.

I bet they sound great with thos subs.

Rock Chalk?

Varibus Mari Victoria
NWCgrad is online now  
post #13 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 06:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 358
That is one insane setup! For your ears sake I sure hope it's a really big room...

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #14 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

That looks like a nice setup...I like the side ports, reminds me of Penngrey's version from a couple of years ago.

I bet they sound great with thos subs.

Rock Chalk?

Yes, rock chalk indeed. until the final four anyway

My design definitely wasn't original. I think I read a few hundred pages of builds and Zilch's threads on a couple different sites. I think augerpro? had some that I copied a bit --layout wise.

Side firing ports will work well behind the screen. Figured they wont need to be set off the wall, and won't blow the screen with port-air.

--room isn't terribly huge, but the floorplan opens up... its about 24-25' long, 16-18' wide in this space though.
jayhawk785 is offline  
post #15 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
just noticed how much the iphone distorted the center channel size lol--they're all identical in size, which im sure you could have guessed by the waveguides being the same... but figured id mention it.

here's a shot of the back:



inside before closing it up:



waveguide coated with sound deadening:



double gasket around the back lip:



they were all done identically, except one speaker has a port firing the opposite direction for (L) vs. (R) sides.
jayhawk785 is offline  
post #16 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 07:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Hope you have room behind the screen to toe those WAY in.

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

XSim -free crossover designer and simulator
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bwaslo is online now  
post #17 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
seeing as how I havent built the wall out, it shouldn't be a problem. However, I don't know how much I"ll really need to toe-in. They seem to broadcast off axis quite well.
jayhawk785 is offline  
post #18 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 08:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Great looking setup!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

 

 

Jay1 is offline  
post #19 of 38 Old 05-23-2012, 10:28 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk785 View Post

However, I don't know how much I"ll really need to toe-in. They seem to broadcast off axis quite well.

That's not the issue; see http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0

Even if there's only a single centered listener, toe-in has benefits of reducing undesirable early reflections from the near side wall, and increasing beneficial late reflections from the far side wall.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #20 of 38 Old 05-23-2012, 12:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,444
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 1017
fantastic! the cabs look great.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #21 of 38 Old 05-23-2012, 01:51 PM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Sweet!

Nice job on the LF driver round-over, and subsequent mounting...a lot of work and good result.

Any measurements you could eventually share would be greatly appreciated. Also, regarding the toe in, as Noah noted, it's all about inter-aural cross-correlation coefficient (IACC), and managing the energy off the near side-wall, and fostering the energy off the opposite rear side-wall. Image specificity w/envelopment, and spaciousness is the goal. Easier said than done, sure. But it's all well understood and documented fully.

Your build is fantastic. Sweet, high output-low distortion designs is essentially a must for realistic playback. Optimizing such is key.

Great job....

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #22 of 38 Old 05-23-2012, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Ya I read the paper that they linked/referred to--interesting, and I get the concept. But if the speakers are at the edge of the screen (103" wide) it's basically slightly less wide than my seating on either side. It's not terribly extreme L/R wise, so I'd think the toe-in wouldn't have to be terribly drastic unless I kept them how they are now (with toe-in).

I'll figure it--Ill try to get some measurements as well. I don't have the best equipment for that, rat shack meter plus rew... but I"ll do my best...
jayhawk785 is offline  
post #23 of 38 Old 05-24-2012, 12:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk785 View Post

But if the speakers are at the edge of the screen (103" wide) it's basically slightly less wide than my seating on either side. It's not terribly extreme L/R wise, so I'd think the toe-in wouldn't have to be terribly drastic unless I kept them how they are now (with toe-in).

Actually your situation makes the toe-in even more crucial to keep the image from being pulled to the side for the listeners at the ends.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #24 of 38 Old 05-24-2012, 02:37 PM
Senior Member
 
johnbomb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nashville
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Jayhawk, those look great, and I love the finish! I have just one suggestion: Since you have fiberglass inside the boxes, you might want to consider adding a thin piece of speaker cloth to the inside of the port to keep that stuff from blowing all over your theater. Alternatively, you might consider polyfill or even acoustic foam as a substitute liner.

Great work!

John.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
johnbomb is offline  
post #25 of 38 Old 05-24-2012, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
probably a good idea--they'll be behind the screen/behind something before too long.. so hopefully that will be enough.
jayhawk785 is offline  
post #26 of 38 Old 05-24-2012, 06:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Kind of a shame to hide them behind the screen actually. Nice looking speakers.

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

XSim -free crossover designer and simulator
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bwaslo is online now  
post #27 of 38 Old 05-25-2012, 04:58 AM
Senior Member
 
paulspencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
What did you use to finish them with?

Regarding toe in, I've found that it's needed with just about every kind of speaker. With a constant directivity type speaker, you can achieve a wide sweet spot along with sharp imaging. I know of no other type of speaker that can do both at the same time. With omni and dipoles you can get a wide sweet spot and a big sound stage at the cost of sharpness.

For some reason, I notice most don't really experiment with toe in very much, which is crazy because it's FREE! And easy ...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.:: Writer for
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.::

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+ TD18H woofers +
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

paulspencer is offline  
post #28 of 38 Old 05-25-2012, 05:26 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post

For some reason, I notice most don't really experiment with toe in very much, which is crazy because it's FREE! And easy ...



+1

Audio 101, ... proper aiming of your mains

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #29 of 38 Old 05-25-2012, 11:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
GoCaboNow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk785 View Post



Interesting that your econowaves look so similar to the 4pi but you do not need to put insulation between the horn and woofer. I was closing up one of my 4pi's, got distracted and did not insure the insulation piece was placed properly between the horn and woofer. (long story) Soon thereafter I could hear a weird feedback coming from the speaker on music playback. Not too loud but was there. Sure enough, open it up and the insulation was not placed properly when I re-installed the woofer. Anyways, just interesting how some things can be different between speakers.

Your speakers look great, by the way.

Location: Beaverton, Oregon

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GoCaboNow is offline  
post #30 of 38 Old 05-26-2012, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jayhawk785's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post

What did you use to finish them with?

Regarding toe in, I've found that it's needed with just about every kind of speaker. With a constant directivity type speaker, you can achieve a wide sweet spot along with sharp imaging. I know of no other type of speaker that can do both at the same time. With omni and dipoles you can get a wide sweet spot and a big sound stage at the cost of sharpness.

For some reason, I notice most don't really experiment with toe in very much, which is crazy because it's FREE! And easy ...

Used duratex roll on--pretty decent product, excellent coverage
jayhawk785 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off