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post #1 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm completely new to the DIY scene. I'm in the process of building my first sub which will include a Dayton 15" HO. I originally purchased a used Dayton 240w plate amp from Ebay, I tested the amp last night and it is completely dead.

So, I almost pulled the trigger on the 500w Dayton Plate amp last night from PE, but didn't. I'm wondering, are there better options for roughly the same price? The way I look at it, the Dayton amp is $260. For ~$300, should I be looking at something else? Maybe a rack amp of some kind?

I just don't know what direction I should go in. If I were to go with a rack amp, wouldn't I need some kind of DSP/EQ? Or should I just stick with the plate amp because it's the "easiest" and I'm so green?

Just looking for some general direction/guidance as I want to make sure I'm getting best bang for my buck.
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post #2 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 07:37 AM
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I like the plate amps for ease of use, especially with ported builds. Here's one for $240 without EQ

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=PA500

That Dayton one is good for only $20 more. If you plan on adding another sub an outboard amp makes more sense as you already have an extra channel. Check out Begringer Inuke DSP amps.
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post #3 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I would like to add a second sub at some point, which is why I was considering the rack amp. I've been looking at the Behringer iNukes and really like them, but don't know enough about them to justify the purchase. That's why I started this thread.

If I were to go with the iNuke, would I need anything else EQ/DSP wise? Or is all of that built into it?
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post #4 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 08:06 AM
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there are two flavors of inukes, the one that ends in DSP has digital sound processing, which is a lot more than just e.q. the dsp models are a hundred bucks more than the non dsp models. if you plan to add a second sub in the future, grab an inuke with dsp that will properly power your subs. inuke power numbers are peak, so divide by two for reality.

sorry to hear about your dead amp and welcome to avs.

http://www.behringer.com/CN/Products/NU3000DSP.aspx

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post #5 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The iNuke DSP series looks very nice. If I were to go with one of those models, would I need anything else EQ wise?
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post #6 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 10:43 AM
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Not to hijack, but I'm in the process of getting my first 2 subs and ran across this thread. It looks like I can get 1 rack amp like the plain iNUKE 1000 instead of 2 BASH 300 amps and come out $100 ahead??
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I like the plate amps for ease of use, especially with ported builds. Here's one for $240 without EQ

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=PA500

That Dayton one is good for only $20 more. If you plan on adding another sub an outboard amp makes more sense as you already have an extra channel. Check out Begringer Inuke DSP amps.

That amp at CCs is a yung s500. I have one.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #8 of 20 Old 05-24-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang View Post

Not to hijack, but I'm in the process of getting my first 2 subs and ran across this thread. It looks like I can get 1 rack amp like the plain iNUKE 1000 instead of 2 BASH 300 amps and come out $100 ahead??

The rated power on the inukes is pretty confusing. I've looked at them several times and I believe you'd only get something like 200 watts RMS bridged out of one. I don't recall the exact number but that's pretty close. It wouldn't be anywhere near thew power of 2 of the bash plates you're looking at.

Now, if you look at the inuke3000 that might be a different story. Then again it's almost twice as much as a bash 300 too.
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ovrrdrive View Post

The rated power on the inukes is pretty confusing. I've looked at them several times and I believe you'd only get something like 200 watts RMS bridged out of one.

You know, I've seen several people on this forum and HTS make this statement yet no one has produced data that proves this. Just saying, if this IS the case and there is testing data that proves it, please link it.

No one wants to pay full price for something when they're only receiving a fraction of what they're paying for.
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 10:40 AM
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You can find behringer ep4000/2500's for around $300 if you look around enough. Solid beefy amps that are the "goto" around here for all types of sub builds. Buy an amp with enough power that you can add more subs at a later date and not have to worry about anything else. sepereate eq units are pretty easy to come by as well. you can go super cheap with something like the elemental designs eq.2, beringer mic220 etc. if you want to step it up a bit to get a little more eq-ability, then you head towards the minidsp or a berhinger feedback destroyer (BFD1124). Even further up the scale would be the behringer DCX. each of these gets a little more in depth, and more costly.


Quote:


No one wants to pay full price for something when they're only receiving a fraction of what they're paying for.

Unfortunately, most amp companies fudge on their power ratings, the only real way to know is to test them. While the ep4000 HAS been tested and shows around 600 wpc at 4 ohms, which is less than they state on paper, the thing is a workhourse, and you will know you are getting a good piece of equipment that many have used around here.

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post #11 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 10:42 AM
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What were the numbers like for the ep4000 monobridged 4ohm?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

What were the numbers like for the ep4000 monobridged 4ohm?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post10689199

The ep4000 is the same as the ep2500 just rebadged as of a few years ago. all measurements are located above and that thread is always available in the "Stickies" section of the DIY forum

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post #13 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 10:58 AM
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I picked up a used ep2500 just a couple weeks ago in very good condition for $175 locally on craigslist. Just look around and you're sure to find one easily.
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post #14 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions guys, I really appreciate it. This is quickly approaching a price range that is just out of my reach, even though I do understand that the dedicated rack amp and EQ solution like the miniDSP offer more functionality and more flexibility.

Since I am still in the learning process of DIY audio and quite frankly, audio in general, I am going to stick with a plate amp for the time being. Right now, spending ~$500 on an amp and DSP is just a little to much.

I think I'll buy either the BASH or Dayton 500w plate amp then spend the other cash doing some kind of DIY speakers. As far as the plate amps are concerned, are the Dayton or BASH amps preferred over the other for any reason?
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post #15 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 11:38 AM
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You should be able to find an ep2500 used for less than $200 if you look hard enough one guy just got one for $125 on craigslist!

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post #16 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baleful View Post

You know, I've seen several people on this forum and HTS make this statement yet no one has produced data that proves this. Just saying, if this IS the case and there is testing data that proves it, please link it.

No one wants to pay full price for something when they're only receiving a fraction of what they're paying for.

Obviously I don't have any first hand experience on them, that's why I was so careful to make sure what I said didn't sound like I had any personal experience by using the words "I believe" that you bolded for me in your quote. I did quite a bit of research on those amps when I was considering buying one and there isn't much in the way of reputable specs out there for them. The one thing that is mutually agreed on for the behringer amps is that behringer over rates them power wise and gives max surge ratings for them instead of RMS watts. This puts a 1000 watt amp at 500 per channel into 2 ohms max, then divide by two for peak, and two again for RMS, then roughly two again for 4ohm, and again for 8ohm. Granted you'd most likely be using it at 4 or 2 ohm, so you would get more than the 8ohm rating but you get the idea.

One of the better threads discussing this on this forum is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1359039&page=2

Some like them, some don't. In the thread there are some quotes of measured power that are pretty low, and some that are decent. You have to read between the lines and make the decision for yourself.

I wouldn't have any problem buying a behringer amp despite all of that, but it would most likely be the ep2000 or ep4000 version and then add a separate minidsp to cover the dsp functions, or possibly the inuke3000dsp model depending on the application.

Either way the inuke amps are pretty solid and I don't think anyone has complained about the quality or sound from them, but the power ratings are arguable.
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post #17 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovrrdrive View Post

Obviously I don't have any first hand experience on them, that's why I was so careful to make sure what I said didn't sound like I had any personal experience by using the words "I believe" that you bolded for me in your quote. I did quite a bit of research on those amps when I was considering buying one and there isn't much in the way of reputable specs out there for them. The one thing that is mutually agreed on for the behringer amps is that behringer over rates them power wise and gives max surge ratings for them instead of RMS watts. This puts a 1000 watt amp at 500 per channel into 2 ohms max, then divide by two for peak, and two again for RMS, then roughly two again for 4ohm, and again for 8ohm. Granted you'd most likely be using it at 4 or 2 ohm, so you would get more than the 8ohm rating but you get the idea.

One of the better threads discussing this on this forum is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1359039&page=2

Some like them, some don't. In the thread there are some quotes of measured power that are pretty low, and some that are decent. You have to read between the lines and make the decision for yourself.

I wouldn't have any problem buying a behringer amp despite all of that, but it would most likely be the ep2000 or ep4000 version and then add a separate minidsp to cover the dsp functions, or possibly the inuke3000dsp model depending on the application.

Either way the inuke amps are pretty solid and I don't think anyone has complained about the quality or sound from them, but the power ratings are arguable.


Understood and points taken. Great advice on here, still confused all hell as to which direction I should go.
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post #18 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

You should be able to find an ep2500 used for less than $200 if you look hard enough one guy just got one for $125 on craigslist!

I also scored on for $125 on Craigs List

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #19 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovrrdrive View Post

The rated power on the inukes is pretty confusing. I've looked at them several times and I believe you'd only get something like 200 watts RMS bridged out of one. I don't recall the exact number but that's pretty close. It wouldn't be anywhere near thew power of 2 of the bash plates you're looking at.

Now, if you look at the inuke3000 that might be a different story. Then again it's almost twice as much as a bash 300 too.

If people would simply not confuse the product name with whatever wattage they seem to want out of a product. Just read the user guide. Behringer lists RMS ratings.

Sorry to be so opinionated but no one wants to be self educating and if you are honest with yourself going to their website and getting the setup guide in PDF is about 90 seconds worth of effort.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #20 of 20 Old 05-25-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post10689199

The ep4000 is the same as the ep2500 just rebadged as of a few years ago. all measurements are located above and that thread is always available in the "Stickies" section of the DIY forum

Pretty darn good numbers for the price of the ep 2500 . I got mine for $250

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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