Help with a Behringer EP2500 driving my sub - AVS Forum
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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First let me say I've been reading all the older threads on driving a sub with a Behringer EP2500. Let me first lay out my setup:

- Pioneer Elite SC-05
- Monitor Audio RX-6's (Left, Right, and Center)
- Refurbished ADS Subwoofer (10" driver I believe, sealed, modified to simply have a + and - pole on the back of the sealed cabinet that connects to the driver). Note: This is working fine driven by a Dayton 240W plate amp I just connected externally temporarily to use it.
- Behringer EP2500

In terms of connections: I have the LFE output of the SC-05 using a single RCA cable in to a *mono* 1/4" adapter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o06_s00_i00) that then connects to Input 1 of the Behringer EP2500.

The dip switches on the Behringer EP2500 are set as follows, which should put it in to bridged mode and disable the cutoff, etc.:

1 R
2 R
3 R
4 R
5 R
6 L
7 L
8 R
9 R
10 R

The EP2500 then connects via the mono terminals to the subwoofer driver.

So the problem: with everything connected up, and playing "300" which has some heavy bass in the beginning, I hear nothing. The EP2500 is powered on, fans running, with the green LED light indicating its running. However, the signal lights (appears red and yellow/orange) show no sign of life. I've tried playing with the gain knobs and it makes no difference. I also tried upping the subwoofer output on the receiver in the speaker signal settings (I didn't see anything specifically related to LFE output level though).

Does anyone have any ideas? I've been reading that the LFE signal being unbalanced might be an issue, and I need something to convert it to balanced. Suggestions to deal with this include the Cleanbox (with a capacitor mod). I also heard the mic2200 might work, which for the money seemed to be a better option, but I read the manual and it seemed unclear, saying you should prefer the use of balanced inputs.

So yeah, I need some help. Mainly how can I:

1.) Verify the Behringer EP2500 is working properly at all
2.) Boost the LFE signal of the Pioneer SC-05 for the Behringer (ideally under $100).
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:09 AM
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EDIT: I will preface this by saying someone else needs to make sure you have all your dip switches right before you worry about what I have to say

For your existing sub, you wouldnt need the modded cleanbox pro, as a 10inch sub will most certainly start rolling off before 20hz where the cleanbox rolls off itself. I have two available if you want one, just PM me and ill get it out to you. if you want both, that works too ive also got a mic220 if you need it! haha ive compiled all kinds of stuff in finding the best way to go from unbalanced to balanced. i used them all for a while to get a little more voltage on the signal coming from my denon 3311 and it certainly works if your voltage is low. In order to prove this though, you need to test and see what your AVR is outputting. do you have a digital multimeter and an audio test disk? If so, see if you can run a sine wave at say 20hz WITHOUT the sub connected just an RCA connected to the sub out on the avr, and not connected to anything on the other side, and take your avr to reference (-0db). then touch the "pin" on the rca with one of the leads of the multimeter, and the shield (round metal part) to the other lead, it should read a voltage no less than .9volts and for the ep2500, you'll want to see a minimum of 1.4volts(IIRC). At that voltage, you are assured that the amp can be run to full potential... I hope all this makes sense

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Old 05-25-2012, 11:25 AM
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YOU AREN'T IN BRIDGED MODE!!!

move pins 6 and 7 to the right. :-)

and move pins 4 and 5 to the left. parallel mode on the inputs does not work with bridged mode.

are you reading your manual? :-)
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post



YOU AREN'T IN BRIDGED MODE!!!

move pins 6 and 7 to the right. :-)

and move pins 4 and 5 to the left. parallel mode on the inputs does not work with bridged mode.

are you reading your manual? :-)

@LTD02:

Haha, I was - my problem is between all the threads saying "Here are the switch settings you should use," "the manual is wrong," etc., I was totally confused.

I will go home and make the described changes and see if it helps, and then go from there. I will say however, I started with the dip switches being set using the manual, but I am guessing I went and tried changing them based on some other threads when things didn't work.

@beastaudio:

I do have a digital multimeter, just need to find an audio test disc (EDIT: Okay, I found this page with a 20Hz sine wave test tone - so I think I can just play this. And it sounds like I should disconnect my speakers when playing this since it can damage them? http://www.parttimeprojects.com/audi...onewebpage.php. I also found this to use to generate a test tone, but I am not sure about the db value to use, nor the sample rate...I assume frequency is 20Hz as you mentioned: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiofrequ...r_sinetone.php). I will check this out in addition to the changes LTD02 mentioned this evening. I basically just want to verify that the EP2500 is actually working right now, since I bought it used off Craigslist for $100. If it's not working then at least I won't waste a ton of time trying to buy converter boxes, etc.

Also - so based on your experience, if I need a converter box, what do you suggest (all bias for what you have to sell aside, haha). The mic2200 seemed like a good deal because for a little extra you appeared to get some nice control, etc., and not just conversion from unbalanced to balanced.

I'll report back by 6pm, thanks to both of you!
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:01 PM
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Linky Link to test disk, also located in the sticky section:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=742969

I have pretty much all of the conversion boxes. The cleanbox pro is the easiest to operate, I also have a samson s-convert that I need to best, a matchbox HD, and a ati1000 which ALL do the same thing essentially. The others dont have the rolloff the cleanbox has, but only when you get to super capable systems do you even need to worry about what the converter box does below 20hz. Promise Also, the mic220 wont convert you from rca to xlr, it will just give you some boost to the signal to compensate before you get the signal to the amp. youll still need an RCA->XLR cable to get from the receiver to the berry.

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Old 05-25-2012, 12:02 PM
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Let me the first to say that you won't need to bridge that channels to feed any single 10" sub. One channel is already overkill.

Test one channel at a time to ensure that each channel of the amp works but keep it in stereo mode.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:07 PM
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Don't remember exactly but the dip switches in the middle seem to be wrong for your set up

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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Old 05-25-2012, 02:24 PM
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"Let me the first to say that you won't need to bridge that channels to feed any single 10" sub. One channel is already overkill.

Test one channel at a time to ensure that each channel of the amp works but keep it in stereo mode."

+1. that amp has been measured at 2000 watts in 4 ohms bridged.

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Old 05-25-2012, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so I still cannot get anything from the amp as described before. I followed the advice from everyone above, and decided to take some pictures to ensure I wasn't missing something.

First - one thing to note, I plugged in my Dayton 240W plate amp and heard the test tones fines without doing anything special, so I know the sub works without issue. It seems to be something specific to the Behringer EP2500 amp.

So here is what I did with pictures to confirm I am following everyone's advice correctly:

1.) I changed the DIP switches as follows:
1 L
2 R
3 R
4 L
5 L
6 R
7 R
8 R
9 R
10 L



2.) LFE level is set of 0db as shown in picture



3.) Tried using the multimeter and with the test CD from above and had literally no voltage being registered on the multimeter. I also verified the multimeter was working using 1.5v AA battery.



4.) Subwoofer output (LFE) on my Pioneer SC-05 receiver that I plugged the RCA cable in to (that goes to the EP2500 input 1)

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Old 05-26-2012, 05:59 AM
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is the pioneers main speakers outputs set to small so that the stereo cds low frequencies are sent to the lfe ?
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:58 AM
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If you're in bridged mode then make sure on the front of the EP2500, that your right channel is set to "0" and your left channel becomes the volume control.
If your right channel is set to max then you won't hear anything cause the signal is cancelling each other.

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Old 05-26-2012, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffwp View Post

is the pioneers main speakers outputs set to small so that the stereo cds low frequencies are sent to the lfe ?

+1 Make sure you have the LFE signal set to go to subs. Also, your multimeter should be set to AC voltage to check the RCA output instead of DC.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:05 AM
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his receiver is fine. the plate amp works.

the problem is getting the behringer running.

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Old 05-26-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

his receiver is fine. the plate amp works.

the problem is getting the behringer running.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

LTD02 is correct here; I can confirm the LFE signal is registering, both from the fact that the Pioneer is showing ")))" signs on either side of the LFE signal indicator (see above receiver display picture) when an LFE signal is going out. Using the test CD I see this signal indication pretty much constantly. And as mentioned - simply plugging in the RCA cable to the plate amp (pulling directly out from the Behringer's 1/4" mono adapter plug), I hear the test sound on the sub. This is with no other changes, except pulling the wires from the sud for the Behringer and connecting that of the plate amp's instead.

The concern for me is that I see no voltage showing at all on the multimeter even when the receiver indicates it is sending an LFE signal down the line. This is even weirder considering, as I mentioned above, the plate amp works. I am wondering if maybe the receiver senses no connect and just doesn't send a signal? Maybe if I ground the outer jacket of the RCA and then power on the receiver I will get a voltage? To me it seems I should, at the very least, get a voltage registering on the multimeter before attempting anything fancy like a S-convert box, etc. that boosts the LFE signal. But I welcome any suggestions.

I need to get some other stuff done for work right now, but will post some pictures of my other settings (speaker size setup, etc.) to just make sure I am not missing something.

And thanks again for everyone's help.
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:08 PM
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it was mentioned above to put the amp back in stereo mode and then test each channel of the amp separately. that would be a good next step.

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Old 05-26-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx00 View Post

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

LTD02 is correct here; I can confirm the LFE signal is registering, both from the fact that the Pioneer is showing ")))" signs on either side of the LFE signal indicator (see above receiver display picture) when an LFE signal is going out. Using the test CD I see this signal indication pretty much constantly. And as mentioned - simply plugging in the RCA cable to the plate amp (pulling directly out from the Behringer's 1/4" mono adapter plug), I hear the test sound on the sub. This is with no other changes, except pulling the wires from the sud for the Behringer and connecting that of the plate amp's instead.

The concern for me is that I see no voltage showing at all on the multimeter even when the receiver indicates it is sending an LFE signal down the line. This is even weirder considering, as I mentioned above, the plate amp works. I am wondering if maybe the receiver senses no connect and just doesn't send a signal? Maybe if I ground the outer jacket of the RCA and then power on the receiver I will get a voltage? To me it seems I should, at the very least, get a voltage registering on the multimeter before attempting anything fancy like a S-convert box, etc. that boosts the LFE signal. But I welcome any suggestions.

I need to get some other stuff done for work right now, but will post some pictures of my other settings (speaker size setup, etc.) to just make sure I am not missing something.

And thanks again for everyone's help.

I wouldn't be concerned about seeing voltage with the VOM.... if you are, change the dial to AC (~) and use a 60 Hz test tone.

Change the EP2500 back to stereo mode and test each channel individually as suggested by others:

1 R
2 R
3 R
4 L
5 L
6 L
7 L
8 R
9 R
10 R

FWIW, I had problems using anything that ties the signal input common with chassis ground, such as those adapters. It caused major hum and loss of signal. In my system I use an XLR input with pin 1 isolated, but YMMV.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx00 View Post

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

LTD02 is correct here; I can confirm the LFE signal is registering, both from the fact that the Pioneer is showing ")))" signs on either side of the LFE signal indicator (see above receiver display picture) when an LFE signal is going out. Using the test CD I see this signal indication pretty much constantly. And as mentioned - simply plugging in the RCA cable to the plate amp (pulling directly out from the Behringer's 1/4" mono adapter plug), I hear the test sound on the sub. This is with no other changes, except pulling the wires from the sud for the Behringer and connecting that of the plate amp's instead.

The concern for me is that I see no voltage showing at all on the multimeter even when the receiver indicates it is sending an LFE signal down the line. This is even weirder considering, as I mentioned above, the plate amp works. I am wondering if maybe the receiver senses no connect and just doesn't send a signal? Maybe if I ground the outer jacket of the RCA and then power on the receiver I will get a voltage? To me it seems I should, at the very least, get a voltage registering on the multimeter before attempting anything fancy like a S-convert box, etc. that boosts the LFE signal. But I welcome any suggestions.

I need to get some other stuff done for work right now, but will post some pictures of my other settings (speaker size setup, etc.) to just make sure I am not missing something.

And thanks again for everyone's help.

In case you missed it in a previous post, you need to set the multimeter to AC for measuring the signal voltage.

But, don't bother checking at the RCA plug because connecting it to the plate amp works which pretty much verifies that. If anything, connect the RCA plug to the 1/4" adapter then check on that end. I don't think this is your problem. Still something in the settings of the amp.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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In case you missed it in a previous post, you need to set the multimeter to AC for measuring the signal voltage.

But, don't bother checking at the RCA plug because connecting it to the plate amp works which pretty much verifies that. If anything, connect the RCA plug to the 1/4" adapter then check on that end. I don't think this is your problem. Still something in the settings of the amp.

Yes, I did miss that, sorry - one of those long days, and I read responses quickly. So we know the signal is good then.

Goods news, or at least, positive news! I found something! I got frustrated, opened up the EP2500 and took the multimeter to just check the fuses (using the continuity function). Well, turns out one of the fuses I get a beep indicating continuity, the other one, nothing! Seems like this indicates a bad fuse? Maybe I'm showing my young and ignorant age - but why don't these fuses have any visual indicator to show they are broken? See the picture below - both look the same, but one works and the other doesn't.

And finally - where do I pick these up? The writing/engraving on them says 6C25A250V - guessing that's 25Amps, 250 Volts. I have Home Depot, and Ace Hardware by me - any of those work?

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Old 05-26-2012, 11:19 PM
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Its worth a shot going to the local usual suspects to see if they have a replacement fuse, as for visual indicators, makes no difference as long as the fuse is rated for the same load.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:28 AM
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that's great news. did you pick up this amp used?

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Old 05-27-2012, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post

Its worth a shot going to the local usual suspects to see if they have a replacement fuse, as for visual indicators, makes no difference as long as the fuse is rated for the same load.

I think by visual indicator was meant something that tells the fuse is blown just by looking at it, preferably without disassembling the amp to see it.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx00 View Post

And finally - where do I pick these up? The writing/engraving on them says 6C25A250V - guessing that's 25Amps, 250 Volts. I have Home Depot, and Ace Hardware by me - any of those work?


Maybe. Radio Shack may have something too. If you can't find 25A I wouldn't hesitate to try a step or two smaller (probably 20A or 15A) if you can get your hands on those.

Just be ensure you don't get one of the low voltage fuses that used to be common in cars, that had (I think) 32 volt rating.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:15 AM
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they are available on amazon 5 for a $1.xx

here is a description of ceramic fuses vs. glass fuses.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/cer...-vs-glass-fuse

the question that you need to know is if the fuse is a "fast blow" or "slow blow" variety.

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Old 05-27-2012, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

they are available on amazon 5 for a $1.xx

here is a description of ceramic fuses vs. glass fuses.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/cer...-vs-glass-fuse

the question that you need to know is if the fuse is a "fast blow" or "slow blow" variety.

Cool - I will search around today once I finish a couple things first. Radio shack is nearby, maybe an auto parts store is worth a check as well. Worst case I can Amazon Prime it for sure.

I did pick it up used - it looked a bit beat up on the outside, but the inside the amp doesn't show any signs of excess heat or anything. The circuit boards look pristine. So I wonder how much it was actually used.

Hopefully this fixes it, but at the very least it puts me a step closer to getting the thing working.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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All,

Long story short - I think I got it all working somewhat...I replaced the fuses and I seem to have an issue with channel 1 and the clip light being constantly lit. Channel 2 doesn't have this issue, but the sound is horribly faint (compared to my Dayton 240w plate amp I have been using) even when the gain is turned way up. This is all without bridged mode, which is even worst - I get all the issue of channel 1 clipping light always being on, but also with the output sound being muffled and distorted even worse.

One thing I notice is that the signal light blinks quite a bit. I can turn up the gain on my Pioneer SC-05, but the sound is still no where near as powerful as my Dayton 240W plate amp.

Any ideas on where to go next? I'm wondering if this amp is simply a lost cause at this point. Even getting something like a Cleanbox I don't think will resolve this. Maybe I should just pick up some other amp and give up on this thing. Not sure...I'm happy to take any input...
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:06 PM
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It sure sounds like your amp is toast! I'd recommend getting another amp to test with.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah - I have a Dayton 240W plate amp that works fine, so the subwoofer and all else is working.

My one thought was maybe the signal is too weak for the EP2500, and a cleanbox or similar would boost the signal and make it all work. Not sure though.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

they are available on amazon 5 for a $1.xx


here is a description of ceramic fuses vs. glass fuses.

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/cer...-vs-glass-fuse


the question that you need to know is if the fuse is a "fast blow" or "slow blow" variety.

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