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post #31 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Baleful View Post

I think I may need an Art Clean Box Pro. Just sitting here watching The Chronicles of Riddic, non-Bluray (AMCHD) and I've got the volume on my receiver turned up to -24 which is where we usually have it when watching TV and I'm not even seeing the first blip on the Input Level indicator in the iNuke software. Reciever is a Pioneer VSX 1120k. My LFE settings were turned waaay down before. Right now I've got LFE set to 0 (high as it will go) and the SW gain set to 0 on the receiver (goes from -15 through +15).

Where is the attenuator on the iNuke set? Don't be afraid to turn that all the way up. Unlike a subwoofer amp that takes the signal and boosts it these take the input signal and cut it - setting it all the way up is basically just running the signal straight through unmodified (in other words there isn't any down side to turning it all the way up wink.gif). I'd also try the SW gain on the receiver higher before spending the $ on a cleanbox.

Couple thoughts on your settings. I'm not familiar with the iNuke software but it looks like you've added a low pass on the sub around 100hz. If you're crossing to the sub with your AVR you'll want to turn the low pass off on the iNuke as it will only mess with the actual crossover. Also the EQ you added looks like it's just basically boosting the entire subwoofer passband wink.gif
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post #32 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

Where is the attenuator on the iNuke set? Don't be afraid to turn that all the way up. Unlike a subwoofer amp that takes the signal and boosts it these take the input signal and cut it - setting it all the way up is basically just running the signal straight through unmodified (in other words there isn't any down side to turning it all the way up wink.gif). I'd also try the SW gain on the receiver higher before spending the $ on a cleanbox.
Couple thoughts on your settings. I'm not familiar with the iNuke software but it looks like you've added a low pass on the sub around 100hz. If you're crossing to the sub with your AVR you'll want to turn the low pass off on the iNuke as it will only mess with the actual crossover. Also the EQ you added looks like it's just basically boosting the entire subwoofer passband wink.gif

I'm not sure about the attenuator?? There is a per channel gain in the iNuke software and there is also a "gain knob" on the front plate. These two seem to work independently of each other. Maybe one of these is what you are referring to?

And yeah, the PEQ settings I have need to be tweaked big time. Oh, and I did turn off that low pass filter wink.gif
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post #33 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Baleful View Post

I'm not sure about the attenuator?? There is a per channel gain in the iNuke software and there is also a "gain knob" on the front plate. These two seem to work independently of each other. Maybe one of these is what you are referring to?
And yeah, the PEQ settings I have need to be tweaked big time. Oh, and I did turn off that low pass filter wink.gif

The gain knob on the front plate should actually be an attenuator. Instead of taking the signal and boosting (adding gain) it will take the signal and cut it (attenuate). It's a common misconception for first time builders using pro gear that you don't want to turn that all the way up as doing so on a typical subwoofer with a plate amp would result in something terrible. This is completely different though, don't be afraid to crank it smile.gif
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post #34 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

The gain knob on the front plate should actually be an attenuator. Instead of taking the signal and boosting (adding gain) it will take the signal and cut it (attenuate). It's a common misconception for first time builders using pro gear that you don't want to turn that all the way up as doing so on a typical subwoofer with a plate amp would result in something terrible. This is completely different though, don't be afraid to crank it smile.gif

Got it, thank you very much for your help, I really appreciate it!
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post #35 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 06:49 AM
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"The gain knob on the front plate should actually be an attenuator. Instead of taking the signal and boosting (adding gain) it will take the signal and cut it (attenuate). It's a common misconception for first time builders using pro gear that you don't want to turn that all the way up as doing so on a typical subwoofer with a plate amp would result in something terrible. This is completely different though, don't be afraid to crank it"

if that were true then pro-amps would never clip.

the proper way to set it up is:
1. DISCONNECT YOUR SPEAKERS FROM THE BEHRINGER AMP
2. set the "gain" knobs all the way to the left
3. clear out all eq in your software
4. run a 0dbfs signal from your receiver to the behringer
5. turn the gain knob up until the clip light appears, then back off a hair
if in step 5, the clip light does not appear with the gain knob turned all the way up, go into the software on the "filter/crossover" tab and turn the Gain up until the clip light appears, then back off a hair
6.turn off the test tone to the behringer amp and reconnect your speakers

now, when your receiver hits 0dbfs, your amp will be putting out as much as it can. if that is too much, use your receiver to set the level lower in order to match to your mains. when you use eq in the software, only use cuts. enjoy.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #36 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"The gain knob on the front plate should actually be an attenuator. Instead of taking the signal and boosting (adding gain) it will take the signal and cut it (attenuate). It's a common misconception for first time builders using pro gear that you don't want to turn that all the way up as doing so on a typical subwoofer with a plate amp would result in something terrible. This is completely different though, don't be afraid to crank it"
if that were true then pro-amps would never clip.
the proper way to set it up is:
1. DISCONNECT YOUR SPEAKERS FROM THE BEHRINGER AMP
2. set the "gain" knobs all the way to the left
3. clear out all eq in your software
4. run a 0dbfs signal from your receiver to the behringer
5. turn the gain knob up until the clip light appears, then back off a hair
if in step 5, the clip light does not appear with the gain knob turned all the way up, go into the software on the "filter/crossover" tab and turn the Gain up until the clip light appears, then back off a hair
6.turn off the test tone to the behringer amp and reconnect your speakers
now, when your receiver hits 0dbfs, your amp will be putting out as much as it can. if that is too much, use your receiver to set the level lower in order to match to your mains. when you use eq in the software, only use cuts. enjoy.

How does one get a 0dbfs signal from their receiver?

bg
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post #37 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 08:21 AM
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there are a variety of ways, but a test cd with an LFE tone at 0dbfs somewhere between 30 and 60hz is probably the easiest. just remember 0dbfs is FULL BLAST, so be sure to disconnect the speakers/sub first.

also, depending on how redirected bass is handled, the gain might need to be lowered by a few additional db, but there are very few instances where all channels are putting out 0dbfs, so the above should be good enough for most situations.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #38 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"The gain knob on the front plate should actually be an attenuator. Instead of taking the signal and boosting (adding gain) it will take the signal and cut it (attenuate). It's a common misconception for first time builders using pro gear that you don't want to turn that all the way up as doing so on a typical subwoofer with a plate amp would result in something terrible. This is completely different though, don't be afraid to crank it"
if that were true then pro-amps would never clip.

We're probably just disagreeing on semantics and I agree with the steps you recommended. What I meant above was that there's no sense buying a cleanbox if you haven't tried turning the attenuator up all the way and that there isn't a downside to turning the attenuators to 0 if that's where you need it with the input signal the AVR's sending smile.gif I'd argue that the attenuators have very little to do with clipping the amp though in the sense that turning them down doesn't mean you won't clip the amp and turning them up doesn't mean you will. It's all relative as they say wink.gif
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post #39 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 11:00 AM
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"I'd argue that the attenuators have very little to do with clipping the amp though in the sense that turning them down doesn't mean you won't clip the amp and turning them up doesn't mean you will."

yeah, it all kind of depends on what you are trying to do with the amp. ideally, one would have sufficient headroom that clipping an amp would never be necessary. clipping is often tolerated in order to mush down the headroom in order to have more power on average.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #40 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

there are a variety of ways, but a test cd with an LFE tone at 0dbfs somewhere between 30 and 60hz is probably the easiest.


Thank you all very much for your advise!

LTD, is there a test CD you recommend? Also, I've never heard of the process you recommended above but it makes perfect sense. Thank you very much!

On a side note I just watched the Thor bluray and the red light on the amp came on several times. I backed the gain down to 0 (12 o'clock) in the iNuke software and set the sub level on the receiver a little lower. Overall, it sounded pretty good. I've still got a lot of fine tuning to do with the system. I'm gonna go ahead and purchase all the stuff to get REW going so that I know what adjustments I need.
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post #41 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 12:36 PM
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Do you have a receiver with a calibration mic? You can use that to run REW.
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post #42 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I have a Pioneer VSX 1120k and it has the MCACC mic. I went ahead and purchased the Behringer mic and Tascam US-122 MKII. Until those get there, can I really use the MCACC mic?
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post #43 of 55 Old 06-09-2012, 09:23 PM
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What paint did you use to finish this? I like the way it turned out.

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post #44 of 55 Old 06-10-2012, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baleful View Post

Yes, I have a Pioneer VSX 1120k and it has the MCACC mic. I went ahead and purchased the Behringer mic and Tascam US-122 MKII. Until those get there, can I really use the MCACC mic?

Yes, if you have a laptop connect the audio out to your receiver, and plug the mic into the laptops mic input, then run a sweep with rew.
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post #45 of 55 Old 06-10-2012, 05:37 AM
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there don't seem to be any test dvd's that are available to the public with a 0dbfs signal encoded on the lfe.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #46 of 55 Old 06-10-2012, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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What paint did you use to finish this? I like the way it turned out.

Thanks. After several layers or primer, the black satin is a Valspar paint. I don't remember the exact info from it, I'll have to find the can and take a pic for you. I do like the finish but I'm not sure if I would use this particular paint again. Even though it looks really good, it's not a strong paint by any means. Just from moving the box inside there are already several scuffs and nicks in the paint where we barely brushed up against something.
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post #47 of 55 Old 06-10-2012, 02:31 PM
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Yes, if you have a laptop connect the audio out to your receiver, and plug the mic into the laptops mic input, then run a sweep with rew.

Do you have a cal file or any parameters for the mic? Im guessing you would need to set a reference point to let rew know what levels = what spl?
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post #48 of 55 Old 06-13-2012, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I got the Behringer Mic and Tascam board yesterday. XLR cable should be here today so I should be able to get some test sweeps done tonight (just gotta figure out how REW works first biggrin.gif)

My brother came over last night and wanted to hear what it could do, and up until this point I haven't really pushed this thing at all. I put in some bass heavy music, turned the attenuator 3/4 up and set the volume to -10...... I had no idea this thing could produce this kind of bass in a room my size. As we were going through different tracks listening I noticed a heavy rattling noise and immediately thought "well crap, I just pushed it to hard and broke something".... nope. Turns out my windows and blinds don't like this sub very much biggrin.gif
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post #49 of 55 Old 06-19-2012, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so after playing with REW a little bit over the weekend, here's the flattest response I was able to get:

REW.png

No idea what's going on around 40hz. I moved the sub all over the room, and that dip never moved and never went away. I'm not sure if that's a room mode, or something with the laptop interfering with REW?


But, overall I'm quite happy with the way this build turned out and I'm already starting to plan my next venture. Since my room is so large and pretty much open to almost every single room in the entire house, I'm thinking about doing a sealed 18" to help smooth the response out a little more. I've been thinking about the Mach5 IXL 18" in a 4.5cuft sealed box. My box now and the Mach5 model relatively close to each other in WinISD.

Mach5.png


Would this be a bad idea, mixing subs like this? I've been reading AVS for a long time and I've seen some people do it and they love it while others have said not to do this.
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post #50 of 55 Old 06-19-2012, 01:20 PM
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Do a close mic measurement to see if that 40hz null is still there. It looks pretty weird...

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post #51 of 55 Old 06-19-2012, 01:23 PM
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I would think it would change if it were the room causing it unless every position you tried was equal distance from the mic?

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post #52 of 55 Old 06-19-2012, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobzorta View Post


Do you have a cal file or any parameters for the mic? Im guessing you would need to set a reference point to let rew know what levels = what spl?

 

notnyt tested the Audyssey mic and it does well for measuring subwoofers. The thing is you have to measure your output and mic input to make sure it measures flat. On my desktop computer, the calibration is all over the place. For some reason the mic input doesn't measure flat... BUT on my laptop, it measures very flat! So I can use the Audyssey mic on my laptop which is convenient. You don't need a spl meter to start measuring, what we care about is the freq response.

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post #53 of 55 Old 06-19-2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

notnyt tested the Audyssey mic and it does well for measuring subwoofers. The thing is you have to measure your output and mic input to make sure it measures flat. On my desktop computer, the calibration is all over the place. For some reason the mic input doesn't measure flat... BUT on my laptop, it measures very flat! So I can use the Audyssey mic on my laptop which is convenient. You don't need a spl meter to start measuring, what we care about is the freq response.

I had lots of issues with my creative card. Turns out it has one of those flex ports that is mic/line in. Took a lot of guessing and clicking around to get it configured correctly to use with REW. Its pretty flat on the low side now though, I just re-ran the calibration last weekend.

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post #54 of 55 Old 06-19-2012, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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The final measurement you see above has the sub placed roughly 12ft from the LP. When moving the sub around, I did move it closer to the mic but never any closer than 9ft. I'll do some close mic measurements as soon as I get a chance.
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post #55 of 55 Old 11-12-2012, 10:10 PM
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For anyone curious - here is a comparison of the Inuke DSP 3000 amp vs. the Crown XLS-5000 on a pair of Dayton Audio Titanik MK3 drivers.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415823/2-dayton-titanic-mk-iii-15s-or-1-tc-sounds-lms-r-15/100_20#post_22583001

In short the DSP3000 does everything the Titanik MK3 drivers can handle and there isn't much need to buy more.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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