Help me pick DIY subs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 06-04-2012, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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First I would like to say thank you for such a great forum. There is a lot of terrific information here. However, it can be a bit overwhelming.

I want to build two or three subs for my living room. The room is mainly used for TV watching and some music. I want to have the kind of bass that you feel in your chest. I originally made the decision to build two of the 12" Infinity Kappa subs. I had also thought about the Infinty Reference 1260W. That was until I started reading more on this forum. There are so many options, but nobody seems to be building the subs I had thought about building. I'm open to building the cabinet or even buying a kit.

Can you guys help me choose a sub to build? Below is more information about my setup.

Budget: Flexible

Primary uses: Mainly movies. However, I want it to perform well when playing music.

Receiver: Denon 3312

Speakers:
Fronts - B&W DM 603 S2
Center - B&W LCR6 S2
Rear - Paradigm ADP-170

Room size: 14' x 14' - back of room does open into dining room and kitchen. Opening is about 8' wide.

Size: I'm not concerned about the size. Wife would like it if they could be used as end tables.
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post #2 of 13 Old 06-04-2012, 11:13 PM
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A budget would REALLY help, as there is some very expensive stuff out there.

QSC GX5

http://www.guitarcenter.com/QSC-GX5-...52-i1388205.gc

MiniDSP

http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/d...-reva?sef=hcfp

That's $525 for a quality amp/EQ setup

Titanic 15 x 2

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-420

Build a pair 27" HxWxD subs each with a 6" port (full length of kit) for a 20hz tune.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=268-354

Set the MiniDSP HPF to 20hz, and you can push the full 700 watts from each channel of the QSC amp into each sub

So thats about $1100 for what would be considered a mid range setup around here. If you're thinking of a much smaller budget you really should set a limit.
LL
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post #3 of 13 Old 06-04-2012, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

A budget would REALLY help, as there is some very expensive stuff out there.

I could do $1200 - $1500 for two subs. Maybe add the third later.
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post #4 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 12:03 PM
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The Titanic build would do well for your budget, you would probably spend a couple hundred building and finishing the boxes.
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post #5 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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A few questions...

1) What are your thoughts on the HO / HF drivers having better SQL than the Titanic?


2) What are the advantages of the amp / MiniDSP over say a Behringer NU3000DSP


3) Is there a cabinet design you prefer / recommend? I need plans or a place to buy.


4) How will two of these subs compare to two 12" Infinity Kappa subs or two Infinty Reference 1260W subs?


5) How would these compare to a Table Tuba


Thanks you for your help!
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post #6 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslv2pwned View Post

A few questions...
1) What are your thoughts on the HO / HF drivers having better SQL than the Titanic?

I can't comment about the HO/HF vs the Titanic on SQ. But I can say that the HF sounds much better to me than the HO in a proper enclosure.

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post #7 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 03:24 PM
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I have two HOs and just by looking at the modeling, I would go HF next time. I love my subs, but they just don't dig deep enough for me. During HTTYD, they were very quiet on the lower octave stuff.
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post #8 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslv2pwned View Post

A few questions...
1) What are your thoughts on the HO / HF drivers having better SQL than the Titanic?
2) What are the advantages of the amp / MiniDSP over say a Behringer NU3000DSP
3) Is there a cabinet design you prefer / recommend? I need plans or a place to buy.
4) How will two of these subs compare to two 12" Infinity Kappa subs or two Infinty Reference 1260W subs?
5) How would these compare to a Table Tuba
Thanks you for your help!

1 - I don't think there would be any noticable difference in SQ when all drivers are used properly below 80hz

2 - NU3000 is reportedly much less powerful, the DSP functions are only available down to 20hz, if you ever decide to change amps you would have to figure out a new DSP solution.

3 - You're going to have to check out a bunch of build threads to see how these things should be built. I gave you a 27" cube dimension using .75" material as a starting point for the proper volume to port the Titanic 15, the 6" x 17" port will get you a tune around 19-21hz depending on how much volume you use for bracing. Draw everything out on graph paper, or with google sketch-up, figure out where you can put braces, where the port will go, etc. You can calculate the total volume of everything here

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/enclosure-volume-calculator/

4 - Haven't played around with those to much. The Titanic 15 maximizes 700 watts down to 20hz in the above configuration so you're definitely getting your moneys worth.

5 - You might as well just build the THT and call it a day if you dont have a problem with a large complicated build. The image says it all with the difference between sealed/ported/horn

http://billfitzmaurice.net/THT.html

186
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post #9 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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How do I know how much sub I need for my room size? My room is 14x14, but is open in the back which connects to the kitchen / dining room. The opening is 8ft wide. See the attachment.

I normally listen to movies at -10 below reference (according to the Denon volume which is Audyssey calibrated). Some movies like The Hulk, Thor, etc., I may go up to -0. The room is currently untreated - that is next. I'm after hard hitting, pressurizing bass that can keep up with my listening level. (Right now I'm listening to an Adele concert at -0)


living room layout.pdf 179k .pdf file
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File Type: pdf living room layout.pdf (178.6 KB, 1 views)
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post #10 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 09:15 PM
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That's loud.

0 is reference and the typical running of subs a few dB hot means reference is actually above reference. You may have to up your budget a weee bit.

There is a great place to buy sealed cabs almost at cost...

Take a look at these!

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks.html


I personally am very fond of the Behringer Inuke DSP 3000, and I've owned an american audio v3000, a couple of EP4000 amps, and am currently using the Crown XLS-5000 amp for reference. The DSP 3000 is a bit less powerful than the EP4000, like maybe a couple dB's, but the DSP more than makes up for it. It's a very nice amp and I highly recommend it. You are talking about making a ported sub setup, and you don't need a HPF below 20hz for the designs you are talking about.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #11 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

That's loud.
0 is reference and the typical running of subs a few dB hot means reference is actually above reference. You may have to up your budget a weee bit.
There is a great place to buy sealed cabs almost at cost...
Take a look at these!
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks.html
I personally am very fond of the Behringer Inuke DSP 3000, and I've owned an american audio v3000, a couple of EP4000 amps, and am currently using the Crown XLS-5000 amp for reference. The DSP 3000 is a bit less powerful than the EP4000, like maybe a couple dB's, but the DSP more than makes up for it. It's a very nice amp and I highly recommend it. You are talking about making a ported sub setup, and you don't need a HPF below 20hz for the designs you are talking about.


It is loud and my wife doesn't like it. smile.gif I think one of the reasons I up the volume right now is due to it not being treated. We recently moved and it seems that I have to up the volume in this new room to hear all the details like I could hear before. Plus, I like it loud. I need to get an SPL meter to see if the AVR's volume indicator is accurate.

I was looking at Erich's site, but didn't see a cabinet large enough.

Thanks!
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post #12 of 13 Old 06-06-2012, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

That's loud.
0 is reference and the typical running of subs a few dB hot means reference is actually above reference. You may have to up your budget a weee bit.
There is a great place to buy sealed cabs almost at cost...
Take a look at these!
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks.html
I personally am very fond of the Behringer Inuke DSP 3000, and I've owned an american audio v3000, a couple of EP4000 amps, and am currently using the Crown XLS-5000 amp for reference. The DSP 3000 is a bit less powerful than the EP4000, like maybe a couple dB's, but the DSP more than makes up for it. It's a very nice amp and I highly recommend it. You are talking about making a ported sub setup, and you don't need a HPF below 20hz for the designs you are talking about.

A couple dbs would be about right for all the talk of the inukes only putting out half of the power behringer is claiming, around 400 watts for the NU3000, vs around 600 watts for the EP4000. The thing about DIY is, you can always build a different setup, or change plans mid build, or any variety of things. The minidsp has filters to 10hz, and isn't tied to your amp. Makes for a better long term investment.

Edit: I also think OP will be fine for reference level with the pair of Titanics. The anechoic response was over 115db from 25hz up from a single sub. Output is gained from the second sub, and with corner placement you theoretically gain 18 db over the anechoic response. Theroy never matches reality in room, but he should be okay.
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post #13 of 13 Old 06-07-2012, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post


5 - You might as well just build the THT and call it a day if you dont have a problem with a large complicated build. The image says it all with the difference between sealed/ported/horn
http://billfitzmaurice.net/THT.html
186

I seriously considered doing a THT. However, the wife didn't like the idea when I told her how big it was. At least with the box's you suggested, I can put a nice table top on them to use for end tables. Although, I'm not sure anything would stay on top of them when in use. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

A couple dbs would be about right for all the talk of the inukes only putting out half of the power behringer is claiming, around 400 watts for the NU3000, vs around 600 watts for the EP4000. The thing about DIY is, you can always build a different setup, or change plans mid build, or any variety of things. The minidsp has filters to 10hz, and isn't tied to your amp. Makes for a better long term investment.
Edit: I also think OP will be fine for reference level with the pair of Titanics. The anechoic response was over 115db from 25hz up from a single sub. Output is gained from the second sub, and with corner placement you theoretically gain 18 db over the anechoic response. Theroy never matches reality in room, but he should be okay.

I like your idea about the long term investment.

I have been reading the Simple 12" Infinity Kappa VQ MidQ Plans thread. Those who built the subs are very impressed and post high reviews. That said, the Titanics are 15" vs 12" and 800 watts RMS/1,100 watts max vs 350 watts RMS/1,400 watts max. Clearly the Titanics are a step up.

The more I think about it and read, I like the idea of the subs you suggested. Now I just need to figure out how to design a cabinet.
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