Alpine SWR-12d2 Tapped Horn + Audio Memorial BBQ get together? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 77 Old 06-06-2012, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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eek.gif

So I had an interesting conversation with a few good friends not too long ago.. Highly edited – it went something like this (only partially fictional)… Players - dB, Jim Walter, Lil-Mike, and TN

Deon to Jimbo, and Lil-Mike:

(Me – quasi fictional) “Hey Fella’s we need an excuse to get together for some tapped Horn Fun”

(Jimbo-not so fictional) “Hey, why not crash Tom’s (Nousaine) Memorial Barbeque?!?! "

(Lil-Mike Fictional) “Oh yeah no problem, I’ll design a wicked big bad TH for your 12" drivers? Let’s do it up right!” (not quite how that happened – he kinda got dragged in to it by someone I won’t mention behind this keyboard..)

(Jimbo – not so fictional) ”HECK – YEAH!! I'm IN. Lets meet at Tom Nousaines Memorial BBQ, waddya say?!?!

(Deon not fictional) “ An excuse to hang with my best Audio buds, some SWMTWMS type folks, play with another pair of TH's, AND eat grilled chickn? I'M IN!!! Mike – I’ll meet you in Ann Arbor Michigan – say when? Around june 8’th just before the BBQ?”

(Lil-Mike 100% true) “I’ll be waiting at the bar.”

(Deon - not fictional.) "Hey Tom - mind some extra company on your memorial BBQ??"

(Tom nousaine) "You are always welcome in my home!!"

So, Why the heck not crash TN's memorial Barbeque?!?!

Nousaine’s Memorial Barbeque

This weekend Tom is holding what has become an annual memorial barbeque. It is a Memorial for friends we’ve lost in the industry, John Eargle, Bill Burton, Henry Blind and John Peske. I will also throw PWK in there as I had the privilege to work with and get to know him before he passed.. I knew Bill B too, and sadly the day before we lost him – I was knocking on his door to invite him to go see Ruthy Foster (An amazing musician – if EVER you have a chance to – get out to see her!) in Austin Texas..

The crew attending this will be Tom’s usual - many of the SWMWTMS crowd, sometimes Dave Clark, Bob Klacza or Arny Kruger will drop in. Of course there's a couple of my friends, fella’s some of you may be familiar with – Lil-Mike, Jim Walter, and Mike Hurd..

This started as a surprise for Tom – but we decided he needed to know enough about it, to clear our attendance with bringing down a truck from Detroit, hauling a trailer loaded with several not Small Tapped Horn’s….. I won’t let the cat out of the bag till we’re there as to design, drivers, etc – but we should have a heck of a lot of fun playing..

Of course if I know us – we’ll still be thrashing to the very last minute. Heck – Lil-Mike had to score a Mini-DSP in the middle of the night last night just for this.. So we’ll probably be tuning, measuring, cursing the widget we forgot to bring, then thumping the bass..

In the process of choreographing the friends and building TH’s with TN/Jimbo, Lil-Mike, Tom mentioned….. Drumroll please…….. It wouldn’t bother him if a few more of us like minded bass-heads showed up. He can’t host a ton, but said to throw an invite out to some of our friends – and who better to mention it to? Our Tapped Horn friends.

If anyone might be interested in swinging by Ann Arbor to meet Lil-Mike, jim Walter, myself, Tom Nousaine and some other audio geeks, do some grillin, play with a pair of TH's - hear Tom's Subwoofer that Shook the World", give me a shout.

I waited to be sure we were making headway on the TH's (Jim is madly building now - preview below), and we're closer to thje weekend so we don't end up with like 50 extra people. He plans for ~~ 20/30, is usually ~~ 25 people with familly and little ones.

However - he did say, If we need more food - we can always hit the grocerie wink.gif..

Here's a lil Teaser pic of what Jimbo's building......

450

As of right now we have no gaurentee on the TH's. They are under construction - BUT, Jimbo likes working under pressure.. This horn also has not been tested, it's the first large chamber Lil-Mike's designed.. So no gaurentee of great TH. But Heck - who cares? We all know he's good - we'll Still have a blast!!

Oh, and I somehow roped Mike Hurd into driving down from canada. He's mentioned it to Mike Bentz, who's checking his schedule now.

_____
dB
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post #2 of 77 Old 06-06-2012, 07:32 PM
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See ya there... I'll be waiting in the bar.

Edit:

The chamber is blocked off to a width equal to the cutout of the drivers. That is not evident in the drawings, but was made clear in other communications during the build.

Hope that this makes sense.

Measured (both horns, drivers in series) vs modeled impedance below. Jim and Jay did a great job building what I modeled and drew.

450
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post #3 of 77 Old 06-06-2012, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Edit:

Placing Data at beginning of the thread for easier access to people stumbling across this build.

The Alpinegeist is ~~2' wide, 3' deep, 5' talll. Fb is aprox 16hz, with the knee dropping off below 15hz.

The finished Measured Un Eq'd amplitude is better than +/- 1.5dB from 15hz through 55hz, including the mildly sloping response from 55 down to 15 (deliberate).

We used 3 filters for EQ - all cut - and extended that to where we low passed at 80. NO BOOST for flat SPL to low corner before room gain. It's the flattest raw TH horn sub we have collectively measured. (Mike/myself/etc).

Predicted SPL and Z.
452

452

Measured SPL at throat.
353

Measured SPL 1m away - with an early reflection ~~ 20 feet out (the notch you see around 24hz in this curve is reflected cancellation from that wall..)

360

Measured Throat SPL after 3 simple filters showing two variations of low-pass.
329

303

303

303

303

ACAD drawing files
AlpineGeist DWGs.zip 219k .zip file

Google Sketchup files
AlpineGeist Sketchup.zip 144k .zip file

Horn Response Model
alpineg.txt 0k .txt file
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post #4 of 77 Old 06-06-2012, 08:19 PM
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On it!

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #5 of 77 Old 06-06-2012, 10:15 PM
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By the way - that teaser???

Over 5 feet tall, about 3 feet wide.

Dual 12s.

Not small....
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post #6 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 06:54 AM
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I'd love to join in, if I had the money. Otherwise, I have a couple good ideas myself I don't know if I'll ever be able to put together.
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post #7 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 07:07 AM
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I'll be at the bar, serving beer.

Mind you, my hands will be a greyish-brown from extensive PL stains, and I'll be missing a significant amount of my hair (let's blame the PL for that too).

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post #8 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 08:08 AM
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Sounds like a great time...Sort of wish I wasn't commited to gigging in Lexington and Nashville this weekend now...mad.gif
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post #9 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ricci it would have been Awesome if you could have made it.. So far, Jim Walter, Mike Piechowski, Mike Hurd, Justin Wyman, and myself are crashing. Any other interested parties? Area is Pinkney, WI 48169. One flying in from Washington, another from Oklahoma, one driving from Canada, and I'm not sure where Justin's coming from.. Tom's excited. Jimbo's made some killer headway. (No sounds yet though....) We'l update once he's done with work dinner later tonight.
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post #10 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 07:30 PM
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Ladies (who am I kidding?) and Gentlemen,

I present; The AlpineGeists

450

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post #11 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

Ricci it would have been Awesome if you could have made it.. So far, Jim Walter, Mike Piechowski, Mike Hurd, Justin Wyman, and myself are crashing. Any other interested parties? Area is Pinkney, WI 48169. One flying in from Washington, another from Oklahoma, one driving from Canada, and I'm not sure where Justin's coming from.. Tom's excited. Jimbo's made some killer headway. (No sounds yet though....) We'l update once he's done with work dinner later tonight.

Correction: Pinkney MI (Michigan, not Wisconsin)

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post #12 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 07:36 PM
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I'm driving in from Rochester NY, Mike gets the "Long Haul" award for this one!

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #13 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In case you all haven't figured yet, these are Twin Alpine SWR12-D2 subwoofers driving 30 cubic foot 15hz tapped horn subs... Quad 12's. 60 cubes. 2.5kw per each.. Hope they measure well when we're done!!!
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post #14 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 08:03 PM
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When is this get together? I'd love to make it as well. It's not too long of a drive from WI.
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post #15 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Saturday. Guests expected to start arriving around 2p. Tom plates at 4p. Hang until we're done hanging. Message me for directions / contacts if you would like to be there, I'll email particulars tomorrow.
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post #16 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

In case you all haven't figured yet, these are Twin Alpine SWR12-e2 subwoofers driving 30 cubic foot 15hz tapped horn subs... Quad 12's. 60 cubes. 2.5kw per each.. Hope they measure well when we're done!!!

Correction;

SWR-12D2

There are 2 TH's, each has 2 12's in it. I'll get some detailed pics up tomorrow.

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post #17 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

Saturday. Guests expected to start arriving around 2p. Tom plates at 4p. Hang until we're done hanging. Message me for directions / contacts if you would like to be there, I'll email particulars tomorrow.


speaking of tapped horns, how is the house wrecker treating you?
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post #18 of 77 Old 06-07-2012, 09:49 PM
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I've yet to build my first sub from what I see here on AVS but this would be a fantastic time! And it's only an hour away! Sadly I've already made plans for this Saturday...plus there's a great EuroCup soccer match on at the same time. tongue.gif
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post #19 of 77 Old 06-08-2012, 05:24 AM
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Bummer!! I'm busy Saturday already. I would have loved to be there.
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post #20 of 77 Old 06-09-2012, 06:32 AM
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About an hour and a half away!wink.gif

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #21 of 77 Old 06-09-2012, 11:19 AM
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From the photo is hard to find the size of your build and what is the weight smile.gif. Thanks.
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post #22 of 77 Old 06-09-2012, 03:01 PM
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How did this all go down? Measurements?

JSS
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post #23 of 77 Old 06-09-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Walter View Post

Ladies (who am I kidding?) and Gentlemen,
I present; The AlpineGeists
450

NICE!!!
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post #24 of 77 Old 06-09-2012, 06:34 PM
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Well, we just killed Pinkney MI's power grid. Reading on the C weighted meter we were in the 116dB at the listening position before the town brown'd out lol

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So basically this is how it went down. The Matrix is real. Final chapter turned off electrons to the neighborhood.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #26 of 77 Old 06-10-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

Here's a lil Teaser pic of what Jimbo's building......

450

That's a really interesting design. Basically, it looks like it combines a woofer in a 4th order bandpass box (sorry, "front loaded 'horn'") with two woofers in a small sealed chamber and two very large port openings on opposite sides, rather than a 6th order bandpass box (sorry, "tapped 'horn'").

Assuming I'm reading the diagram right and not missing a gap in the chamber that appears to enclose the woofers' back wave, at least.

What did the bandwidth of the box end up being?

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post #27 of 77 Old 06-10-2012, 07:55 AM
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man I have to check in a bit more often... Kansas isn't that far from ann arbor....
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post #28 of 77 Old 06-10-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Basically, it looks like it combines a woofer in a 4th order bandpass box (sorry, "front loaded 'horn'") with two woofers in a small sealed chamber and two very large port openings on opposite sides, rather than a 6th order bandpass box (sorry, "tapped 'horn'").

That would be a tapped horn with a compression chamber wink.gif
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post #29 of 77 Old 06-10-2012, 03:39 PM
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Hornresp models it as a tapped horn with a compression chamber, feel free to call it what you wish.

I inverted one driver into the smallest compression chamber I could draw.

Bandwidth? 14.5 Hz to 80 with minimal eq, only highpass, lowpass, and cutting 4 peaks.

Pre eq we were flat from 15 to 64 Hz. We clipped an EP 4000 into each cabinet, showed it no mercy at all, and no complaints.
Had the grid not failed us, we'd have kept trying, but the area went dark just as we were getting started. No power till this morning.
I've been cleared to share, so the plans, models, measurements, and details will be posted when I have a chance.
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post #30 of 77 Old 06-10-2012, 04:42 PM
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Just got home from dropping the guys off at the airport. Man, what a weekend! Always great seeing old friends, even better meeting new ones! Looking forward to the next round.

We all agreed on 8 TH'd 18s, right?


700

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