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post #1 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,

I am thinking I would like to get into the DIY audio hobby, but I'm not sure with which project I would like to enter. I'm thinking either front speakers in my home theater or with a subwoofer. my current setup consists of b&w cdm nt fronts and center and a svs pb12-nst/2 subwoofer.

Im looking for value components in DIY, but certainly want to upgrade the performance from my current components.

What would be an easier entry project? What type of driver and component cost would I have to upgrade performance, NOT including cabinet coats for the fronts and sub? . In your opinion, what project is more likely to hook me on the hobby? For the sub idyllic I would pay for a recent part or it with the proceeds from the se of the svs.

My room is roughly 15*30*8 and open to a hallway and staircase.

Depending on which project you think would best meet my goals, could you recommend me a specific build?

Thanks, and sorry for the disjointed post!
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post #2 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 12:56 PM
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I would start with a subwoofer build. It is much easier as there is no crossover to worry about. If you are going to build mains, I would definitely go with a proven design, There are tons of established designs out there.

Are these mainly for music or movies?

Do you have a budget in mind?
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post #3 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick response. Given my excitement to jump in, i knew id forget to give some of the necessary info. This system is almost exclusively home theater.

If I were to do a subwoofer build first, I'd say my budget would be 500 bucks or so, provided I can best my current subwoofer with that budget. If I can't, ill have to evaluate I suppose.
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post #4 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 01:54 PM
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You can definitely best that pb12 for $500. Do you have size limits for the sub?
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post #5 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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As far as size requirements, not really. The enclosure for my current sub is pretty large ( I'm just guessing maybe 18w by 24h by 28d) and while smaller would be ideal I understand with a limited budget the enclosure size will likely not be compact!

Just to confirm, the subwoofer I have now has 2 12 inch drivers. Not sure on the amp, maybe 350 watt plate amp? It's an older sub I think I bought back in maybe 2003.
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post #6 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 05:53 PM
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take a look at lilmike's f20.

it is big, easy to build, very low cost, and will belt out the bass.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #7 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I suppose I should have said previously...being new to the DIY scene those very large (at least to me) cabinets wouldn't be my preference as I have no way to hide something like that.

I suppose I could consider something like but, but would rather consider more "conventional" (to me) alternatives first.

More thoughts, input, opinions? Thanks everyone!
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post #8 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 08:06 PM
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The easiest build would be 6-8 ft3 ported with a 15" and a 500 watt amp. For example a 24"x24"x28" box (outer dimensions, built with .75" material), would get you a little over 7.5ft3, after adding a pair of 4" x 21" long ports (just buy a long piece of 4" ABS pipe at lowes and cut down) and plenty of bracing you will have a little over 7ft3 and a 20hz tune. Take the classic DVC385 15" which has good sensitivity and solid xmax, and pair it with a nice 500 watt amp and you will have a very capable sub that makes the most out of a 500 watt amp.

320
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post #9 of 21 Old 06-11-2012, 08:37 PM
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I would recommend Bill Fitzmaurice's Tuba HT, it's 36"x36"x24.5" and comes in at $500 or less depending on sales. I built mine 3 months ago and it's a wonderful addition.
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post #10 of 21 Old 06-12-2012, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the continued thoughts all! I really would rather do something more traditional, I think. although, are there any comparing say the f20, tuba ht, and something like jay1's suggestion above.

Just for the sake of being different what about a 18 inch driver or dual 15? Or would I be better off with two subwoofers with a single 15 inch driver?
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post #11 of 21 Old 06-12-2012, 08:12 AM
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"Just for the sake of being different what about a 18 inch driver or dual 15? Or would I be better off with two subwoofers with a single 15 inch driver?"

each driver has different parameters. if you just stick two 15's in a cab designed for one, in some respects performance goes backwards.

if you want two 15's that jay mentioned, build two cabs or one cab with two drivers that is twice as large as the single driver cab and uses twice as many ports.

the horn subs give about 6db more spl on average and are the best for folks with limited budgets who want the most spl per $ possible.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #12 of 21 Old 06-12-2012, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ltd, thanks. The trapped horns give up a bit on extension, correct? If I were willing to give up a bit of aol for more extension what might I pursue? And what might I need to increase my budget to to achieve lower extension?
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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In order to have more ability to upgrade in the future, I'm thinking a stand alone amp may be more useful to me long term than a plate amp. Thoughts? If so, what do people recommend? It would not be going in a rack now, just in a tv stand.

Also, if i were to go with a stand alone amp, should I change my driver?
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post #14 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdchambe View Post

Hi everyone,
I am thinking I would like to get into the DIY audio hobby,...My room is roughly 15*30*8 and open to a hallway and staircase. ...
The enclosure for my current sub is pretty large ( I'm just guessing maybe 18w by 24h by 28d) ...
I really would rather do something more traditional, I think. ... [\quote] (quotes don't work???)

First off welcome to AVS forum, and DIY speakers. Please be aware that every internet forum has its unique characteristics, and this one loves horns. If you'd like a bias toward more traditional approaches, try some other forums. More ideas usually yield better solutions.
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=6

Second, what's your goal, beyond "getting into DIY?" Subs are a good starting project, but only if you need more subwoofage. A second sub is certainly beneficial, but it helps to know what you don't like about your set-up. Or do you just have the itch to build something? If so, you'll find a lot of understanding here.

If your current sub is "pretty large" are you looking smaller or similar size?

What degree of LF extension do you want? HT needs an octave or two more than music, depending on taste, and horns, while good designs, are not practical if designed to deliver extremes of LF extension.

How loud do you listen? Sealed designs have tremendous distortion if pushed to high SPL, while horns are extremely clean at the same sound level.

This is reality - Hoffman's Iron Law. Size, Extension, Sensitivity, pick two.
- small with extension: sealed, low sensitivity
- small with sensitivity: use a pro-sound driver, won't have the Xmax to dig low bass
- large with extension: ported, extends output, but does nothing to increase output above tune
- large with sensitivity: horn, length limits LF extension, but with broadband increase in output.

Lots of variations with driver characteristics, but the law stands; pick two and live with the third. Welcome to Trade-off-land!

Have fun,
Frank
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post #15 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdchambe View Post

In order to have more ability to upgrade in the future, I'm thinking a stand alone amp may be more useful to me long term than a plate amp. Thoughts? If so, what do people recommend? It would not be going in a rack now, just in a tv stand.
Also, if i were to go with a stand alone amp, should I change my driver?

A Behringer NU3000DSP would be a good option, as it should put out about 500 wpc into 4 ohms, and you get full DSP controls (dont forget to set a 20hz HPF)
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post #16 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

A Behringer NU3000DSP would be a good option, as it should put out about 500 wpc into 4 ohms, and you get full DSP controls (dont forget to set a 20hz HPF)


I second this as I'm loving my iNuke right now. Very flexible and plenty of power for what I'm using it for.
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post #17 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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So, say I wanted to sacrifice some output but gain deep bass response below 20 Hz thinking that I could always add a second sub to increase output it necessary. What might I do or choose differently from the box jay detailed above with the Dayton driver?

I was also looking at lilmike t6 trapped horn. I know it is contradictory to what I just said regarding extension, but I do like its size.
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post #18 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, that behringer is ugly, or at least not my cup of tea! Given that in my current setup its going to be in out in full view, any products similar in quality, performance, and price? If not, ill probably just bite the bullet, but thought it was worth asking!
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post #19 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 08:50 PM
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Could be worse, the Peavey IPR's light up like a roadhouse.

Regards,
Dan
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post #20 of 21 Old 06-14-2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdchambe View Post

Wow, that behringer is ugly, or at least not my cup of tea! Given that in my current setup its going to be in out in full view, any products similar in quality, performance, and price? If not, ill probably just bite the bullet, but thought it was worth asking!

An EP4000, with a miniDSP is pretty much the standard equipment

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001U5JFNM/ref=asc_df_B001U5JFNM2056409?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B001U5JFNM&hvpos=1o1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18833608621523551549&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=

http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/detail/15-minidsp-in-a-box/flypage/62-minidsp-2x4-reva?sef=hcfp

You have to have some kind of HPF if you want a ported box, the DSP gives you this capability down to 10hz, with with the ability to EQ the response. Plate amps have HPF's built in around 18-20hz. You would also be able to tune lower then 20hz easily with the miniDSP because of the ability to set a lower HPF. You will need a stronger driver then the DVC15 to use more power (650 wpc) lower in frequency. Now you're playing the game of how much more do you really want to spend, and is it worth the performance gains. The price of a DVC15 and 500 watt plate amp is pretty much the cost of an EP4000.
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post #21 of 21 Old 06-15-2012, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks jay.

Fbov, thanks for the informational post. I like my equipment now, so really this is just something I want to do because. I like to listen to movies at decent levels, )it can't quantify as I have no measuring equipment. Based on the Hoffman law, if I wanted to go ldeep extension and small sie, then I give up volume correct? Could I overcome this by using multiple subwoofers?

If so, what kinda of enclosure size, roofer, and amplification would I be looking at ( and cost!). Would the epik4000 do to power two subwoofers in smaller sealed cabinets to decent output levels? If so, using whatdriver?


Thanks again everyone.
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