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post #331 of 353 Old 10-29-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

What amplification do you have?  AVR power?  I would put my most capable amplification on the lower sensitivity speakers......

My AVR puts out 100 watts x 7. But I don't want to make a big deal out of "correcting" this. This is only a temporary situation. I was only pointing out the imbalance to show how much more power I'm getting out of my new mains over the prior generation's "efficient" speaker and also to point out that my mains are being held back by the current surrounds. I will soon have 5 channels of SEOS goodness. eek.gif
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post #332 of 353 Old 11-03-2012, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Time to Build Surrounds

I got my stuff from Erich today, so my surround build has started.

Here's the build thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437288/seos-surround-build
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post #333 of 353 Old 11-03-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Java View Post

Time to Build Surrounds
I got my stuff from Erich today, so my surround build has started.
Here's the build thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437288/seos-surround-build

I was hoping that I would get my stuff today. I would have been building boxes rather than working on the leaves. frown.gif

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post #334 of 353 Old 11-15-2012, 09:23 AM
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Java,

THANK YOU for putting together an EXCELLENT build thread - well done!
I'm late to this party but I have a pair of 2512's and SEOS12s on order for my mains.
As for my 2512 mains, still struggling with a decision: 1) duplicating your sealed boxes? -or- 2) going with the SEOS12 ported towers?

I also have a wall mounted FP screen setup and was faced with the same center channel height / placement issue you struggled with. I'm going to try a "Big Malcolm" (4 - NS6 drivers)?

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post #335 of 353 Old 11-15-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Java,
THANK YOU for putting together an EXCELLENT build thread - well done!
I'm late to this party but I have a pair of 2512's and SEOS12s on order for my mains.
As for my 2512 mains, still struggling with a decision: 1) duplicating your sealed boxes? -or- 2) going with the SEOS12 ported towers?
I also have a wall mounted FP screen setup and was faced with the same center channel height / placement issue you struggled with. I'm going to try a "Big Malcolm" (4 - NS6 drivers)?

Hey Cuzed,

Thanks for your kind words and congrats on joining the fold.

As far as sealed vs ported. I lean toward sealed for a couple of reasons.
  • Mule kick. The 2512's kick like a mule in mid bass. Even sealed, my mains really kick. I cross them at 80hz with my sub.
  • 2512 like sealed. You may have seen Coctostan's comment on 2512's: "The 2512 is a good midrange or high midbass woofer. IMO it is best used when excursion is kept under control like how you are doing with the sealed box HPF'd around 80hz. It will definitely give you that punch feeling in the 80-200hz range and does well over the rest of its range too. For the money it is great."
  • Ease of use. Many will disagree, but for a noob like me, sealed are much easier

As far as center, how high is your screen off the floor? If you can, you should try to mirror the left/right. You may have seen my concerns about using a Malcolm as surrounds as far as sensitivity. The Designer 8's (DS-115-8) sensitivity is 85.5 vs the 2512's sensitivity of 99.9. I'm sure using 4 will increase the sensitivity, but there still has to be a gap.

If you don't mind trimming your left and right speakers down to match the center, then you may not have a problem. I still love BWaslo's ingenious design in the Malcolms!!

Good luck on your build!!
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post #336 of 353 Old 11-15-2012, 12:49 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement and thoughts on sealed vs ported.
My "wilson-art" DIY screen bottom is currently 20" from the floor. Although I can (and probably will) move it to 24" high, before it hits my overhead soffit. I wish I had the room depth to allow ~30" behind an AT screen, however I do not frown.gif

My current setup utilizes 2 Klipsch RF35 towers (claim to be good to 35 Hz?, but I have my doubts)
Built into my overhead soffit is a Klipsch RC7, that is about 30" forward of the screen surface and angled down towards my front row.
I am picking up the bottom end with 3 -16Hz SVS cylinders (EQ'd thru a Velodyne SMS1). I have them crossed over high, at 100 Hz; this allows the various sub-woofer locations to help out with a nasty null at the seating position

Although I am generally happy with this system; I sometimes feel that dialogue from my center could be improved. This should be a good test for a "Big Mal"
And besides; I have the "bug" to try DIY speakers

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post #337 of 353 Old 11-15-2012, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Thanks for the encouragement and thoughts on sealed vs ported.
My "wilson-art" DIY screen bottom is currently 20" from the floor. Although I can (and probably will) move it to 24" high, before it hits my overhead soffit. I wish I had the room depth to allow ~30" behind an AT screen, however I do not frown.gif
My current setup utilizes 2 Klipsch RF35 towers (claim to be good to 35 Hz?, but I have my doubts)
Built into my overhead soffit is a Klipsch RC7, that is about 30" forward of the screen surface and angled down towards my front row.
I am picking up the bottom end with 3 -16Hz SVS cylinders (EQ'd thru a Velodyne SMS1). I have them crossed over high, at 100 Hz; this allows the various sub-woofer locations to help out with a nasty null at the seating position
Although I am generally happy with this system; I sometimes feel that dialogue from my center could be improved. This should be a good test for a "Big Mal"
And besides; I have the "bug" to try DIY speakers

I hear you on an AT screen. I'm itching to get one, but I got a new Carada a year ago. What was I thinking...

You got some serious subage going on with 3 SVS subs. I can see no reason to go ported now. Especially if you cross it at 100 hz.

Are you thinking about putting the center above the screen? 20" is pretty low. BWaslo beat me repeatably rolleyes.gif until I understood the CD needs to be at ear level. I pushed mine all the way to 32" and put a +5° angle on the boxes to try to get it close.
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post #338 of 353 Old 11-15-2012, 02:01 PM
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If you built a very shallow on-wall design, you could cut the depth needed for an AT screen considerably - I wonder if anyone else is considering such a design?
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post #339 of 353 Old 11-15-2012, 02:44 PM
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Java,
Yeah; I saw Dr. Waslo making that point quite clear smile.gif
I cannot go above; unless I want to completely rip out and re-do my overhead soffit (including a ceiling - front wall bass trap). Even then I would be limited, because of some HVAC dusting that is encased in that front overhead soffit.

Java/Brad,
You can bet that next time around I will have a scope-screen AT setup. I'm just trying to make the best of this layout, without MAJOR changes until I get to start over with theater number 2 (when we become "empty-nesters" in 3~5 years...)

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post #340 of 353 Old 11-20-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Java View Post


I played around with a template, and butted the guide and woofer together and it looks like 1" will work. I have to a little careful with the thinner material due to recessed area.
Thanks, again!!
Guide and Woofer touching
400
1" wide board
400

Java,
Thanks for sharing this photo. From this photo; I might assume the "underside width" of the SEOS "lip" is 1/2", and the underside width of the delta-lite flange is also 1/2" ?
I don't have my horns yet and am trying to optimize the height and spacing for my Malcolm baffle

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post #341 of 353 Old 11-20-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

If you built a very shallow on-wall design, you could cut the depth needed for an AT screen considerably - I wonder if anyone else is considering such a design?
This is why I went with the AE TD12M's. They can go in a small box. My speaker is 10.75" deep exterior measurement. Helps to fit them in my not so deep room, behind my curved AT screen. Speakers sound great.

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post #342 of 353 Old 11-21-2012, 06:36 AM
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Very shallow design - And looks great!!

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post #343 of 353 Old 11-21-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Java,
Thanks for sharing this photo. From this photo; I might assume the "underside width" of the SEOS "lip" is 1/2", and the underside width of the delta-lite flange is also 1/2" ?
I don't have my horns yet and am trying to optimize the height and spacing for my Malcolm baffle

Hey Cuzed,

Yes on the SEOS and I thinks on the 2512.

I have a loose SEOS12 ready for my surround build so I double checked. Per below, it is a little more than a 1/2". For what it's worth, the "rise" is gradual after that, so you may be able to cheat a bit more.

On the 2512, I don't have any loose drivers, so I checked the front. I believe the front and back are the same size, so you have a 1/2".

Last, you may have seen in my build thread that I "wimped out" and gave myself a 3/4" gap between the WG and Woofer: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417294/seos12-2512-build/150#post_22261040. My concern was that since I was using two layers for the front baffle and the outer layer was 1/2", I way get some deformation (i.e., the gap might break).

SEOS12 Lip Width


2512 Exterior [Sorry for the crap image]
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post #344 of 353 Old 11-21-2012, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

This is why I went with the AE TD12M's. They can go in a small box. My speaker is 10.75" deep exterior measurement. Helps to fit them in my not so deep room, behind my curved AT screen. Speakers sound great.

Awesome build, Mike!!

I'm a little confused over your statement that you went with the AE TD12M for the shallow depth. Is there something beyond the mounting depth you considered? Per below, the TD12M mounting depth is 6.556 in. vs 6.06 in. for the 2512.


AE TD12M


2512
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post #345 of 353 Old 11-21-2012, 09:13 AM
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I believe it has to do with the cooling design of the drivers - the 2512 has a pole vent on the back, so needs clearance between that and the back of the cabinet to allow for airflow / cooling, whereas the AE does not, so can get closer to the back of the cabinet.
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post #346 of 353 Old 11-21-2012, 09:26 AM
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I wonder how much clearance is needed for a pole vent. I've been wondering about this for in-wall ideas. Anybody know?
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post #347 of 353 Old 11-21-2012, 09:28 AM
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I wonder how much clearance is needed for a pole vent. I've been wondering about this for in-wall ideas. Anybody know?

I wouldnt go less than an inch and optimally would keep it around 2 inches if possibly.

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post #348 of 353 Old 11-21-2012, 09:40 AM
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Hey Cuzed,
I have a loose SEOS12 ready for my surround build so I double checked. Per below, it is a little more than a 1/2".

Java,
WOW - That is exactly what I was hoping you could re-confirm,
THANK YOU for double-checking that measurement, I appreciate it !!

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post #349 of 353 Old 11-25-2012, 05:18 PM
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great tread, thanks..


wound one be able to do a extra unit in this build, maby if you made all 3 compartments sealed, as one for each speaker unit Tweeter - extra 10"mid - 12 or a 15" bass unit.

how do you like thise vs your old, you old had 3 way or? do you miss that whit 2 way? and how it the tweeter handling voice.
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post #350 of 353 Old 12-01-2012, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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great tread, thanks..
wound one be able to do a extra unit in this build, maby if you made all 3 compartments sealed, as one for each speaker unit Tweeter - extra 10"mid - 12 or a 15" bass unit.
how do you like thise vs your old, you old had 3 way or? do you miss that whit 2 way? and how it the tweeter handling voice.

Sorry for delay, simple100

I'll let the experts weigh in, but my understanding is that the SEOS wavguide and CD (compression driver/tweeter) mitigate the need for a mid speaker. The SEOS/DNA360 can reach much lower than a "plain old" tweeter, so you can achieve a flat response without adding a mid. At least that what this noob thinks...

As far my old speakers, they were Paradigm Titans (bookshelf two ways) for L/R and CC-170 v2 for center. The paradigms did me well, but I wanted an upgrade on power, presence, and clarity. I got all of that and then some with the SEOS build. As reference, I was leaning heavy toward a Klipsch setup, before I got bit by the DIY / SEOS bug.

Bottom line, I am extremely happy on how they turned out. We all have different starting points for reference, but at least for me it was night and day upgrade. I am missing absolutely nothing from the paradigms.

Does that help answer your questions?
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post #351 of 353 Old 12-01-2012, 05:50 PM
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That's a timely post:
I'm stealing from Java's excellent build to create some SEOS12/2512's as step up from my Klipsch reference point...

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post #352 of 353 Old 12-30-2012, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Update on my surround build

They are done: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437288/seos-surround-build#post_22553829
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post #353 of 353 Old 01-01-2013, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Time for new Subs

With my surrounds done, it's time for me to look toward upgrading my wimpy Paradigm PDR-12 to keep up with the SEOS system.

I've been kicking around doing a 'Lil Wrecker build, but I'm also planning on room treatments and I'm thinking there won't be enough room. I need to build a screen wall and would like to put the sub(s) behind the wall. Also, my "very front" seating (ikea chairs on sides) will be pressed for space with future side panels so the subs need to be up front.

So unless Mike and dB-Kicker have some thoughts, I think I'm going with sealed boxes. Below are my initial plans:
I'd like to do a dual build, but I may do one at first. That is why I'm thinking a plate amp would be easier.

Thoughts on overall plans?

Thanks
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