Half Scott.............Bass Brother(RCF clone) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 07-10-2012, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Since reading Not's thread on the LG clones I have asked Sanway what other equipment do they sell. SO they told me they clone just about everything they sell and you can buy separate speakers from them such as 6.5's or 10s, 12's and 15's. SO I was able to get some T/S info from them in regards to a pair of Matin F15 clones and they seemed to simulate just fine for me. They are no AE's or anything but at $79 each I am willing to live with only 5mm xmax.

SO after deciding to build a "Half Scott," 3 way with dual 15's each. I began to simulate the clone drivers and save my coins to start my project. I still have to save up and buy the minidsp, AVR and other components of the 3way but wanted to tell others about the clone drivers.

After speaking to Sanway about purchasing four 15's from them they also suggested the RCF clones that they had. They are $82 each but they dont have the T/S available yet. Sanway insisted that the RCF cloned speakers are better in all areas then the F15 so I wanted ti try. SO instead of buying four F15's I bought two RCF clone 15s and the WT3 software from PE..

I have received the WT3 software and should receive the woofers by Monday next week. Once I receive the woofers I will use the software to get accurate T/S and other numbers I am sure others will find useful.

If others have any questions in regards to these woofers feel free to ask.

And Scott feel free to add pictures......lol
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post #2 of 39 Old 07-17-2012, 12:40 AM
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Did the drivers come in yet? How much was it to have them shipped?

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post #3 of 39 Old 07-18-2012, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Some how something went wrong with the shipping and Sanway got them back. I never received them yet. The shipping was about 150 dollars for shipping to Australia. I am waiting for todays update and will have another reply.
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post #4 of 39 Old 07-19-2012, 12:56 PM
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Thanks for the update. I contacted Sanway about the "clones" and they seem like a good deal, but the shipping costs look like they might kill it for me. However, if they measure and perform well they still might be a viable choice.

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post #5 of 39 Old 07-27-2012, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Well after some issues with shipping for some reasons I finally have a tracking number and my pair of 15's are on there way. I will probably get these woofers next Thursday, I hope. Then I will test them with my software.
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post #6 of 39 Old 08-02-2012, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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After much delay the 15's finally got here. I was trying to start my cabinet build already but the local store here did not have any 18mm MDF. :crying: I was bummed.

I will be going out today to look at another location to get the mdf.

First glance at the box from the post man and I wonder how do these things even make it intact anywhere. :scratch: Wife said they just dropped the box in the living room for her.

The boxes were packed......ok. One of the dust caps has a dent in it but thats about all.

I am free air testing the drivers at 20hz to guestimate the Xmax.(thanks Ricci) I seem to be hearing a rub of the rubber gasket against the surround when doing so. When I place my hand on the gasket the sound goes away. IDK I will be most likely taking the gaskets off anyways.

The pair of these woofers will be going in a 3cuft ported cabinet tuned to 42hz roughly.

Here are some pics of the package and me unpacking. The other woofer has no dents and sounds fine.
[IMG]IMAG0418.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0420.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0421.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0422.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0422.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0423.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0424.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0425.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0426.jpg
[IMG]IMAG0427.jpg

I think if you live in the USA there are so many choices that why bother with the clones. I always have to pay about 125 or such for shipping on any 15 I get so I wanted to try these.
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post #7 of 39 Old 08-02-2012, 08:09 PM
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WOOFERS!!!

biggrin.gif

Hope you like them. smile.gif

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post #8 of 39 Old 08-02-2012, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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SO far I do.....after sending 20hz sine wave through the driver to try and find Xmax I am thinking it looks like about 12-14mm. So I am guestimating about 6mm for Xmax. This weekend I should get the cabinetes built.

Scott I asked Ricci but I will ask you. On the port .....woud a 19mm roundover be enough?

I saw the subwooferbuilder website or whatever it is called and he mentioned trying to use a bigger one like a 25 or 32mm roundover. Those are about 125 dollars each so thats not happening. Although maybe I should look at one anyways with the saving I am making.

I also still have to pull the dent out of the dust cap.
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post #9 of 39 Old 08-02-2012, 09:37 PM
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That's a good question. Honestly, I don't know but would think you'd be alright with that size. Just as long as the port diameter isn't severely compromised in the first place.

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post #10 of 39 Old 08-02-2012, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I will just be stacking mdf scraps and cutting out 6" circles. Then with the cicles about 1" thick and the back baffle being 1.5" thick I will roundover the rear baffle. It only needs to be 10" I think so pretty easy and cheap with the scraps.

So it will just be a 6" port 10" long.
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post #11 of 39 Old 08-03-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

]
I think if you live in the USA there are so many choices that why bother with the clones. I always have to pay about 125 or such for shipping on any 15 I get so I wanted to try these.

We do have some good deals, but not drivers of this caliber for $80. Even with a high shipping cost, the drivers are still a very good deal. If you find that the specs are good, I'm seriously considering these to play with.

JP
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post #12 of 39 Old 08-28-2012, 09:57 AM
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Any progress here, Chrapladm?

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post #13 of 39 Old 08-28-2012, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Well so far it seems like something always keeps getting in the way of progress.

I just received my minidsp last week and finally got it unboxed. But need to go get a walwart to power it up. Have to finish the cabinet for the PHL and finally got the TPL's. Wow these things are heavy. Not super heavy I just was not expecting the weight.


SO hopefully in the next week I will at least have a finished 3 way speaker. SO far the 15's are being used like a subwoofer. They sound alright but probably need a lot of EQ. And they need a Hpass also. They at times make a weird suspension or turbulence noise when they have to move a lot and quickly. But 95% of the time they sound fine. So I will past no judgement yet.
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post #14 of 39 Old 08-31-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

I will just be stacking mdf scraps and cutting out 6" circles. Then with the cicles about 1" thick and the back baffle being 1.5" thick I will roundover the rear baffle. It only needs to be 10" I think so pretty easy and cheap with the scraps.
So it will just be a 6" port 10" long.

Can you post up a picture of this? Sounds cool, but I am not sure I follow what you are doing 100%.

Chris

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post #15 of 39 Old 09-25-2012, 11:57 AM
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IMAG0887_zps8c35569e.jpg

This picture is proof that there is little upkeep in here. Whatcha doing, bass brother?

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post #16 of 39 Old 09-25-2012, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hahaha.....sorry. I have had the 3 cabinets for a little while but dont have any preouts on my AVR. So I have to save for that.

I am trying to get my Minidsp working but seem to not have 12Vdc going to it properly. Once I have the minidsp working I will just be using my computer and its L/R outs for preouts. I still have to buy either a Fp10Q or a few Crest Pro lites 2.0 or 3.0s.

Right now I only have a 500hz manual Hpass on the TPL-150. I just wanted to hear them for the first time. I listened to the TPL and my SLA together with the SLA down -6dbs. It sounded pretty good but clearly needed to finish my Minidsp so I can cross at 1600 or so. The 10" PHL is in only .25cuft. The cabinet is roughly 2/3 solid 18mm mdf. The outside is 12mm Pine.

I have played my PHL and TPL together off of my receiver and the SLA sounds like I dont have any highs in it when comparing the sound.. The only way I have gotten to listen to the whole setup was with the AVR powering the mid and high and the sub preout for the dual 15's. So with the AVR sub out crossed at 200hz it all sounded pretty good. Simulation wise it said these 15's wont be able to do much below the tuning(42hz). But after watching a few movies with no Hpass on the dual 15 it shook the room just fine and I never heard any complaints. And I still have to build the other dual 15 cabinet for the other channel. This WAS before any Audyssey EQ also. So who knows.

My room was a huge mess with the dual 15 cabinet in the middle of my room for a while and the dual 21's in their boxes on the floor in the room also. I told the wifey I would have the room cleaned up so I just made some quick cabinets for the 21's I then just moved everything into place for now.

I am looking for my port pictures and cant find them yet. I will find them and upload them soon. I bought a 25mm/1" roundover. for this project also. I rounded over the dual 15 cabinet and the entry and exit for the port. In the picture you can see on the 21" cabinet the top right is where my flush bit guide bearing disappeared. It was an old bit but was doing fine. At least I thought. I am making grilles for the L/R 21' cabinets. The grilles will be 2" thick and have a metal grille material I have leftover from another subwoofer project. Plus I will be adding some foam flooring material I have also just in case the woofer were to hit the grille. But the woofer would have to explode if it did.. So the grille will be foam with a metal grille on top of that. Then black fabric to cover everything. Just a simple cheap Spotlight/ Joan Fabric material.

The dual 15 cabinet will get some very similar for the grille also. I wont be adding the flooring material though. Not sure if i want to try out the 18sound 15 LW14001 or not. They are double the price of these clone 15's but would smash them also. Very tempting.

But for now I have to save up and buy:
1. Clone Fp14000
2. AVR Sherwood 972 or the Denon 3312
4. Fp10Q x 2 or Crest Pro lite 2.0/3.0. Less wattage but i know they will work.
5. Then build center channel CBT.
6. Then a motorized drop down screen and projector
When all that is done I will then replace my SLA's with simple 2ways with the TPL and PHL drivers.So this will be a while before completion. I dont have the money that a lot of users here do. I am still paying off the TPL's.

But there is a bit of an update for ya.biggrin.gif Brother
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post #17 of 39 Old 09-25-2012, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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post #18 of 39 Old 09-26-2012, 09:55 AM
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Wow. I had no idea that you have done so much yet have so far to go still. That's quite a list of gear to pick up. Still, the 3-way speaker as shown lookf f**king fantastic. Great work.


Keep it up, Bass Brother. smile.gif

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post #19 of 39 Old 09-26-2012, 02:40 PM
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Thanks for the picture of your home made round port, that looks pretty cool. I figured that was what you were doing, but didn't know if you were leaving the outside square or if you circle cut that as well..

Chris

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post #20 of 39 Old 09-26-2012, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Wow. I had no idea that you have done so much yet have so far to go still. That's quite a list of gear to pick up. Still, the 3-way speaker as shown lookf f**king fantastic. Great work.
Keep it up, Bass Brother. smile.gif
Ya .....quite a ways to go yet. Getting there very slowly.

Dont forget I also have four children from 4-13yo. So everything takes time. But thanks for the kind words.
Quote:
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Thanks for the picture of your home made round port, that looks pretty cool. I figured that was what you were doing, but didn't know if you were leaving the outside square or if you circle cut that as well..
I had to cut them out because they would not have fit in my cabinet. And after this fun project I am not working with MDF any more.Only Plywood. It is 3x's as expensive here but at least I dont have the stuff all over me.
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post #21 of 39 Old 09-28-2012, 02:05 PM
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And after this fun project I am not working with MDF any more.Only Plywood. It is 3x's as expensive here but at least I dont have the stuff all over me.

A lesson we all learn sooner or later...smile.gif

Chris

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post #22 of 39 Old 09-28-2012, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Money always being short I just use MDF 99% of the time. But always hate working with the stuff. But my next future projects all require plywood so I think I will just stick with that. I have a few horn projects and BFM DR200's to build.

Still dont have my Minidsp working yet but the TPL/PHL are night and day compared to my SLA. I know they should but was amazed at how good the SLA was when I first listened to them. I started this project because this was to hold me off from building my " Never building another speaker again," system. That was a 3way line array. I was going to use PHL1120's b ut for the normal 3 way decided to try the 3451. Just because I liked the transition from a 10" to a 15 better than a 6 to a 15. I am talking only aesthetically.

Pushed the bass bin(dual 15's) a bit today to see what she could do. For only having about 7mm excursion these things pound out the bass. I cranked the music yesterday and they dont ever move much past around 3mm one way. But they are very loud. I need six more than I will be done. biggrin.gif

Scott any pics yet of your small LCR bass brother?.
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post #23 of 39 Old 09-28-2012, 11:00 PM
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Hell yeah, bro. Get the full dozen. biggrin.gif

So yes... I have one recent picture but it will probably be quite disappointing to fans waiting for the build. Rest assured. There is little left to 'build' even though it doesn't look like it.

WP_000107.jpg?psid=1

It doesn't look like much but I have piles and piles of the rest of it in other rooms. The entire space behind the seats in my HT room is pack with stuff as is the den with others. Here, I took some pics of the gear piles just for you. Skydrive is awesome. smile.gif

These two pics show more than half of the JBL 2226's I have. I think there are ten of them in these pics. Also, three DCX's and about two EP4000's...plus other odd's and end's

WP_000139.jpg?psid=1

WP_000140.jpg?psid=1

JBL 2445 compression drivers and a horn or two. Plus the other two RLp18's in their original boxes and somewhere in these is two more JBL 2226's. Yeah, not in the pic but just between the RLp's and amps from MKtheater.

WP_000141.jpg?psid=1

WP_000142.jpg?psid=1

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post #24 of 39 Old 09-29-2012, 04:13 AM
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What does TPL and PHL stand for? Just curious.

OP- You have a PM from me.
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post #25 of 39 Old 09-29-2012, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I still wonder what I am going to do for my 3-120hz bass system. Crazy shipping prices have me always trying to think of different routes. I was going to just have four 21's but there is not enough room in my living room room now. But my future room will be enclosed so maybe I should just get them for the future. I like building dual opposed and wish the UXL was out. Then I could have my four UXL's in the same amount of space as my 21's.

I was thinking of just buying more of these clone 15's because they are cheap and perform good enough for me. They have their negatives but for the price I am willing to live with it. They do make a clone BC 18" also I want to try. SO I will have to decide on what I want to do. Dual 18's per cab would be nice. Sealing the cloned 18's still smashes the ported 15's by a lot. But they should they are 18's..

Scott will your four 18's be able to keep up with your 15's?

I simmed twelve 2226's in about 12cuft and four of my 21's cross your 15's at about 80hz. After that your 15's take off. I am guessing your mids will be the weakest link? Along with your body. LOL

What are your surrounds going to be.

For me I will just have SLA's. In the future I will make some full range surrounds with clone 15's. But that is just a dream for now.
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post #26 of 39 Old 09-29-2012, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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post #27 of 39 Old 09-29-2012, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Scott is that a 18" baffle also in the sealed 2226 cabinet pic?
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post #28 of 39 Old 09-29-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

I still wonder what I am going to do for my 3-120hz bass system. Crazy shipping prices have me always trying to think of different routes. I was going to just have four 21's but there is not enough room in my living room room now. But my future room will be enclosed so maybe I should just get them for the future. I like building dual opposed and wish the UXL was out. Then I could have my four UXL's in the same amount of space as my 21's.
I was thinking of just buying more of these clone 15's because they are cheap and perform good enough for me. They have their negatives but for the price I am willing to live with it. They do make a clone BC 18" also I want to try. SO I will have to decide on what I want to do. Dual 18's per cab would be nice. Sealing the cloned 18's still smashes the ported 15's by a lot. But they should they are 18's..
Scott will your four 18's be able to keep up with your 15's?
I simmed twelve 2226's in about 12cuft and four of my 21's cross your 15's at about 80hz. After that your 15's take off. I am guessing your mids will be the weakest link? Along with your body. LOL
What are your surrounds going to be.
For me I will just have SLA's. In the future I will make some full range surrounds with clone 15's. But that is just a dream for now.

Will the quad's keep up? Hell yes they will. Each RLp18 will get 2,200w and the JBL's (for now) will get 225w each. The JBL's have the advantage from the upper double digit hertz on into the hundreds but the RLp's dominate down low. It's all about blending and level matching all that mumbo jumbo fun-ness. DCX-win! biggrin.gif Also, I am cheating with routing LFE into the 12 JBL's. Midrange is ~110dB efficient with 100-200w on them. Same with the highs. The only weak part of this system will be my ears and body.

Surrounds? Same one's I've had for a while. Emotiva ERD-1's. Weak but they should 'keep up' only because I wouldn't be listening to movie above reference anyway. New surrounds of higher sensitivity are a planned upgrade for a future project.

Quote:
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Scott is that a 18" baffle also in the sealed 2226 cabinet pic?

That baffle laying against the dozen midbass boxes is the baffle for the RLp subwoofer and it's 21" wide.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #29 of 39 Old 09-29-2012, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I guess you will have the 60-250hz area taken care of. biggrin.gif I always worried more about this area than ULF.

Funny just talking about your system has me sold on at least just doing a dual 18 bass bin instead of a dual 15. Craziness. I cant fit the quad 15 unless I get rid of the 21's.(space wise)

Are you Hpassing your 15's at 20hz or anything?
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post #30 of 39 Old 09-30-2012, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Well I guess you will have the 60-250hz area taken care of. biggrin.gif I always worried more about this area than ULF.
Funny just talking about your system has me sold on at least just doing a dual 18 bass bin instead of a dual 15. Craziness. I cant fit the quad 15 unless I get rid of the 21's.(space wise)
Are you Hpassing your 15's at 20hz or anything?

High passing the midbass? Absolutely not! The capability of 12 sealed 15's (even low Xmax rated) and allowing them to run all the way to the bottom was a large design feature from the get-go. Otherwise I would have just vented them out for even more SPL.....but in a narrow range. Bwahaha!

Yeah, that section will definitely be taken care of and there are very little of us that go about crushing that zone only to concentrated on the 80hz and down. "Hmmm... lack of punch you say? No ****. Two 15's is enough, yeah? Oookay." tongue.gif We hear it all too often. *nods* Yup. But the subwoofers will handle ALL the bass, right? Yeah.... no. Oh well.

If you can fit them, dual 21's (for midbass) would have the same surface area as quad 15's. Much narrow baffle for dual 21's than quad 15's in a cube like I'm doing. Something to think about if you aren't going to do the quad 15's... but don't you have the 15's already? What will you do with them if you don't use them for the mains? I say knock a wall down if you have to, man! Lol! biggrin.gif

But yeah, had things really gone my way.... prolly just have dual AE TD18h+'s instead of quad 2226's but I'm sure they won't be much a slouch. wink.gifbiggrin.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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