My F-20 w/ DVC385-88 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 69 Old 07-22-2013, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So care to post your observation and thoughts about the various subs you've built or owned ?

I am curious to hear opinions about the differences of them, and which route you think I should take for my build.

Any particular reason you mixed them up how you did ?

Originally I thought the F-20 spanked my ported sub (in my sig). I think for music the F-20 does sound better. Now that the F-20 is in the theater I have been using the ported sub in the living room. We watched Toy Story 2 and 3 and the ported sub was rockin. SO I would say the ported sub is good for movie content.

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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Bump, I would like to know this as well!
I have been wondering how something like 2 duel opposed Dayton HF15's would compare to 2 F-20's.
I currently have 2 Dayton UM15 that are in sealed enclosures, but to me, they just don't have the extension
nor the output that I would like. I have been considering building either 2 F-20's or 2 duel opposed HF15's.
I need to pick up a MiniDsp or some other EQ devise for my subs, then I could use the EQ features to boost
the low end on my current sealed UM15's.

I dunno, that's 4 drivers versus 2. If you have sealed I think you will need some EQ to counter the roll off. The F-20 and ported builds are flatter to the tuning frequency. If yo are running sealed now without EQ I think you would probably love the F-20s. I built 2 sealed subs I am going to try to incorporate only for <30Hz. I'll see how the phase issues work out. Bottom line is ported or horn is not gonna give you anything below the tuning freq, whereas sealed will give yo something all the way down.

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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

great work and post mr. tim!


Thank you!
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Great work, and great to see the measurements come in so similarly.

For clarification, the directions call for 18.5", so the change was only a 1/2 inch reduction in internal width.

Oops, sorry about that! I should measure (with a tape measure) and see, maybe I build the first one too wide (or rather, wider than the plans called for). I will check and reconfirm. Thanks again for the excellent design and for stopping by!

Tim

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post #62 of 69 Old 07-25-2013, 06:43 AM
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So the F20 just has more volume ? Or it has better sound ?

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post #63 of 69 Old 07-25-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So the F20 just has more volume ? Or it has better sound ?

I can't quite explain it.. I think it may be because it digs deeper. I can't do an a/b test because the f-20 is downstairs now. All I can say is I'm happy with it for movies.

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post #64 of 69 Old 07-25-2013, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So the F20 just has more volume ? Or it has better sound ?

The way the F20 is built, the excursion of the speaker follows that of a sealed enclosure, so distortion is quite low.

Actually I'd like more clarification on this as well, because I am under the impression that in a ported sub, signals below port tuning tend to rob the speaker of its excursion for content above tuning which in turn would decrease its performance. Unless of course a proper HP filter is used to prevent signals below tuning - which would then cause some loss at tuning frequency anyways.

The F20's sealed arrangement prevents the driver from reaching any type of xmax until below 10hz. So a high pass can be used around 12hz and the sub can be pushed as much as the speaker was designed for - which wouldn't affect the F20 tuning, effectively -3db around 18hz.
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post #65 of 69 Old 07-25-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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The F-20 definitely kills it at 22Hz. You can see it from the graph.. but it is definitely something to hear. It is plainly, without-a-doubt audible when I did my a/b test.. the F-20 is the clear winner.

I never used a HPF on either subs and I have 1000w. I just don't play it loud. I have the option of using a HPF (one amp has a 20Hz selectable filter and I have a DCX2496 for the F-20's)

IIRC you have to HP the F-20 at at least 19 because the excursion goes way up below tuning. A quick check of the F-20 thread would confirm.

Same is true of the ported sub but I think the ported does perform a little better below tuning. I don't have time to check my graphs at the moment.

Also remember that there will be some PVG with both, so that can also effect how they sound.

I hope to test the ported sub outside and get some true measurements. The In-room measurements weren't too impressive.

Tim

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post #66 of 69 Old 07-26-2013, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Great work, and great to see the measurements come in so similarly.

For clarification, the directions call for 18.5", so the change was only a 1/2 inch reduction in internal width.

Right you are, I did build the first one per plan and it is 18.5".

Building it 1/2" narrower loses you a dB here and there.

So the real question is.. what happens when you build it 2' wide? biggrin.gif

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post #67 of 69 Old 07-29-2013, 06:01 AM
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Can I ask a rather simple question?

The F20 design is basically to give increased output right ? That's really the only point ?

How does someone go about designing such a beast ?

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post #68 of 69 Old 07-29-2013, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

The F-20 definitely kills it at 22Hz. You can see it from the graph.. but it is definitely something to hear. It is plainly, without-a-doubt audible when I did my a/b test.. the F-20 is the clear winner.

I never used a HPF on either subs and I have 1000w. I just don't play it loud. I have the option of using a HPF (one amp has a 20Hz selectable filter and I have a DCX2496 for the F-20's)

IIRC you have to HP the F-20 at at least 19 because the excursion goes way up below tuning. A quick check of the F-20 thread would confirm.

Same is true of the ported sub but I think the ported does perform a little better below tuning. I don't have time to check my graphs at the moment.

Also remember that there will be some PVG with both, so that can also effect how they sound.

I hope to test the ported sub outside and get some true measurements. The In-room measurements weren't too impressive.

Tim

Excursion isn't the issue, distortion is.

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post #69 of 69 Old 07-29-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Can I ask a rather simple question?

The F20 design is basically to give increased output right ? That's really the only point ?

How does someone go about designing such a beast ?

I kind of discussed that in the F-20 design thread. The idea was to get as much low-distortion bass as possible from the MFW-15 drivers that Erich had a pile of.
I chose the front-loaded, offset driver horn with a sealed back chamber as the best alternative, as that's what the driver wanted.

As far as how to do it? There are a few how-to's linked in my signature.

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