My F-20 w/ DVC385-88 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 69 Old 07-24-2012, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, we're in full swing now!

Started my rendition of lilmike's F-20 today. Obviously the sizes are exactly the same. Picked up the 15" driver on sale from PE.

I went with rabbit joints on the carcass and will biscuit the fold:

I got smart after my last subwoofer build and didn't route the rabbits where I didn't need them:
IMG_1020.JPG

IMG_1021.JPG

Starting the fold:
IMG_1023.JPG

IMG_1026.JPG

Tim
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post #2 of 69 Old 07-25-2012, 06:07 AM
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the biscuits aren't necessary, as the right glue will be stronger than the wood at the edge. i've never even heard of a horn panel "blowing out" when glued in. the weak point is the center of the panels...they will vibrate like drums and suck energy out of your build. the place to go overboard in a horn is the bracing, not the joinery. :-)

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post #3 of 69 Old 07-25-2012, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the biscuits aren't necessary, as the right glue will be stronger than the wood at the edge. i've never even heard of a horn panel "blowing out" when glued in. the weak point is the center of the panels...they will vibrate like drums and suck energy out of your build. the place to go overboard in a horn is the bracing, not the joinery. :-)

About two decades ago I did a bit of building.. furniture, cabinets etc. Nothing major, but I have an interest in woodworking. These projects are the first I've done since then (excepting basic trimwork, door hanging etc), so beyond the pleasure of a new sub, the journey is just as gratifying. Some guys spend hours on a piano black finish.. by obsession is joinery!

In short order I will be making a new built-in entertainment center, so getting back into sync with the tools is a good thing.

Besides, the biscuits make it really easy to get the pieces lined up smile.gif

I have the bracing diagrams for the F-20. I think I may make a few changes, but I'll post them here before I commit.

Probably won't have any more progress until the weekend.

Thanks for checking out my thread!

Tim
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post #4 of 69 Old 07-25-2012, 02:36 PM
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"beyond the pleasure of a new sub, the journey is just as gratifying...my obsession is joinery!"

:-) if you haven't already, check out member passinginterest's (i think i've got that right) builds. he is one of the best woodworkers around here. i'm sure that you would enjoy reading his threads.

"the biscuits make it really easy to get the pieces lined up"

i knew that you were going to say that...and of course, you are right. :-)

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post #5 of 69 Old 07-29-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I wanted to add some bracing at the unsupported ends of the folds. I used a single piece of 3/4 ply 2-1/2" wide. The brace goes thorough the second fold (the one that is 90 degrees) and joins to the two outside folds:

IMG_1030.JPG

Like a glove:

IMG_1031.JPG

I made a 1/4" recess for the driver so I could line it up properly:

IMG_1033.JPG

Things are starting to move.. working time of the glues starts to become an issue:

IMG_1034.JPG

All the folds finished:

IMG_1036.JPG

Just need to add a brace on the backside and the mouth, cut the access hole for the driver and closer her up.

Tim
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post #6 of 69 Old 07-30-2012, 04:30 AM
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You will like this sub. With careful EQ, flat to around 15-17Hz (if your room allows it) will be possible at low THD. If your room does not support much down low, you still have solid 20Hz capability, better than any cinema around, whose -3dB point is 25Hz and falls off the table below that.

The only question will be when will you build a second one to even out freq response at more than one seat?

JSS
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post #7 of 69 Old 07-30-2012, 04:58 AM
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Nice woodworking, I need to work on my joinery.

A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free.

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post #8 of 69 Old 07-30-2012, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

You will like this sub. With careful EQ, flat to around 15-17Hz (if your room allows it) will be possible at low THD. If your room does not support much down low, you still have solid 20Hz capability, better than any cinema around, whose -3dB point is 25Hz and falls off the table below that.
The only question will be when will you build a second one to even out freq response at more than one seat?
JSS

At this point I think I am going to build 3 more. My theater is wired for four. Plywood and labor is cheap smile.gif

Not sure if I can afford the drivers ATM, but now that my test run is complete I can crank out some more fairly easy. I have a spare Buttkicker amp, so I already have the juice to power them.

I will definitely have 2 in the theater and work from there.

I also have 3 stens and 4 sten II's to make. I have a box full of aura drivers. I need to quit my day job smile.gif

Tim
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post #9 of 69 Old 07-30-2012, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice woodworking, I need to work on my joinery.

Thanks. The rabbits were made with a rabitting bit in the router. It's fairly easy once you get the depth set right (which is the only adjustment you have to make). As 3/4 plywood really isn't 3/4 it took a little while to figure out the right depth. Once I had it figured out I used calipers to make sure I set it correctly each time.

Tim
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post #10 of 69 Old 07-30-2012, 05:26 PM
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Thanks, I will look into getting a rabbit attachment for my router. I will making 5 enclosures next summer and they need to be perfectly square and solid. My last few builds have been good, but I like woodworking and am always trying to get better.

A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free.

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post #11 of 69 Old 07-30-2012, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I picked this set up: CMT 7 pc. Grand Rabbet Bit Set

I have to say I am extremely pleased with the quality of the CMT bit. I've used Freud and Amana before. Freud usually gets high marks, but frankly I'm not terribly impressed. Decent enough, but nothing spectacular. I like Amana better than Freud. This CMT cuts smoother than anything else I've had.

Tim
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post #12 of 69 Old 08-02-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

You will like this sub. With careful EQ, flat to around 15-17Hz (if your room allows it) will be possible at low THD. If your room does not support much down low, you still have solid 20Hz capability, better than any cinema around, whose -3dB point is 25Hz and falls off the table below that.
The only question will be when will you build a second one to even out freq response at more than one seat?
JSS

I find that I don't need a second F20 to even out FR at all the seats in my living room. Maybe it's because the F20 takes up over 50% of my room...tongue.gif
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post #13 of 69 Old 08-02-2012, 08:54 PM
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NICE outdoor build!! It looks almost identical to the pics I took of my f-20 build. Working outdoors is just so much more gratifying!!! You'll love the f-20, I certainly did!!!! I had two with tempest x-2's built in, and they absolutely rocked, I just had a thirst for more systems and with cabs that size, I really had NOWHERE to keep them so I had to offload em' They found a new happy home with another AVS member biggrin.gif

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post #14 of 69 Old 08-03-2012, 03:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, working outdoors is nice since I don't have to deal with the dust. The glue also dries extremely fast!

Probably won't get much done this weekend. I ordered the speakon connectors from PE, they should arrive today. I forgot to order the H-Nuts.. I think that I can source them locally.

Currently trying to decide on finish. I think I am going to use General Finishes black tinted WB polyurethane. Hopefully I can get the cabinet sprayed next weekend.

Tim
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post #15 of 69 Old 09-16-2012, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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After being on the back burner for about a month, I pushed ahead. I installed the rest of the bracing:
IMG_1317.JPG


I had installed a brace at the end of the horn.. but when I went to close up the coffin I found the bottom piece of plywood had warped about a quarter of an inch.. so the brace was too short. Had to pop it out. Made a new one, but decided to finish the coffin BEFORE I install it this time smile.gif

Also got the t-nuts installed and got the access panel cut. Now I just need to round over the corners, install the speakon connector and get some paint on it.. oh.. and install the driver.

I suspect this will happen in rapid fashion, as the F-20 is now residing in my kitchen. Although I had carried it up and down the basement stairs before I buttoned it up, carrying the complete unit is a different story. I got the completed unit to the top of the basement stairs and said to myself... "uhmmmm.. no."

Just getting it up the 3 steps to the kitchen was a feat.
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post #16 of 69 Old 09-17-2012, 07:26 AM
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Two words....

Appliance dolly.

A standard 2-wheel dolly and a ratchet strap will work in a pinch though.
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post #17 of 69 Old 09-17-2012, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Mike. I wished I had one yesterday!

Maybe you should add that to the bill of materials? biggrin.gif

One thing is for sure, this isn't going in the basement until it's done. No way am I carrying it back up.

Tim
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post #18 of 69 Old 09-17-2012, 02:12 PM
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Mr Tim the sub looks awesome! I had to recruit help from the wife to get mine to the basement. She is a trooper!
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post #19 of 69 Old 09-18-2012, 05:18 AM
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Mr. Tim, I was wondering if you could tell me how you measured and marked those angle cuts that were required on the internal horn pieces inside your F-20? Also, what type of tool and how did you go about making the angle cuts themselves? I am relatively new to all of this wood working stuff so please don't think I am an idiot!
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post #20 of 69 Old 09-18-2012, 05:25 AM
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Haha I helped a buddy integrate two of those beasts some time back.  One word comes to mind when your faced with those big boys Refrigerator.  An appliance cart would be required if moving by oneself......

 

If you haven't decided on finish I would just mention Duratex if you havent heard about it.  It is very well reguarded and gives a nice durable finish when done.  I do like the finish better when done with a fine sponge roller as opposed to their coarse finish roller but anyhoo thought it worth a mention.

 

Very nice work.

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post #21 of 69 Old 09-18-2012, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

NICE outdoor build!! It looks almost identical to the pics I took of my f-20 build. Working outdoors is just so much more gratifying!!! You'll love the f-20, I certainly did!!!! I had two with tempest x-2's built in, and they absolutely rocked, I just had a thirst for more systems and with cabs that size, I really had NOWHERE to keep them so I had to offload em' They found a new happy home with another AVS member biggrin.gif

I know they found a happy home, fret not Sir Beast.

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post #22 of 69 Old 09-18-2012, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Mr. Tim, I was wondering if you could tell me how you measured and marked those angle cuts that were required on the internal horn pieces inside your F-20? Also, what type of tool and how did you go about making the angle cuts themselves? I am relatively new to all of this wood working stuff so please don't think I am an idiot!

You can go into sketchup and use the tape measure and protractor tools to get the lengths and angles.

From there is just a matter of setting the angle on the saw. I used both a table saw and circular saw. Some pieces were too big for the table saw, so I used a fence and a circular saw. You could easily construct the entire thing with a circular saw, as long as you have a good clamping fence to guide the saw. Most (all?) of the angles were less than 10 degrees, which is a piece of cake.

Tim
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post #23 of 69 Old 09-18-2012, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha I helped a buddy integrate two of those beasts some time back.  One word comes to mind when your faced with those big boys Refrigerator.  An appliance cart would be required if moving by oneself......

If you haven't decided on finish I would just mention Duratex if you havent heard about it.  It is very well reguarded and gives a nice durable finish when done.  I do like the finish better when done with a fine sponge roller as opposed to their coarse finish roller but anyhoo thought it worth a mention.

Very nice work.

Thanks, Nick.

I have looked at the Duratex and it would definitely be my choice if I didn't have other projects that also need paint. I ended up with General Finishes Black Undercoat because I am also painting columns and wainscoting in the theater with it. It is a fantastic finish and sands extremely well. I'll be using a waterbase poly with crosslinker over it.

It's supposed to be a tough finish, but muscling the F-20 into place will surely test that notion.

Tim
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post #24 of 69 Old 09-25-2012, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Painted Pics:
IMG_1329.JPG

IMG_1330.JPG

I ran out of black undercoat, so I ended up doing 3 coats of black-tinted waterbase poly. You can see the grain showing through, but in person it's pretty darn black. It's not a piece of furniture, so I wasn't too concerned.


I am now an official member of the h-nut club (does H stand for HELL??):
IMG_1337.JPG

After having the driver in-and-out 3 times, I finally got all the h-nuts threaded. I had to replace 2 and PL premium them in there. Just using the tap caused one of them to come loose, and I drilled the holes 1 size smaller than the 1/4" I was supposed to. Those things are the worst. There has to be a better way.

Here's the cable I made for the driver:
IMG_1340.JPG

It's just a single piece.. I stripped the insulation from about 2" in the center of the run, bent it over and tinned it. Tried to find 0.187" faston terminals (refuse to go to Radio Shack), and couldn't find any, so I just soldered the wire to the tabs.


I wanted the access panel to look a little classy:
IMG_1342.JPG

I managed to screw up two of the h-nuts on the panel.. still need to fix them, but seems to be fine for now. I chiseled out for the speakon connector so it sits flush.



Listening impressions...

I am not a big audio guy. To be honest, I am happy with my 1992 Bose speakers.. AFter our first kid it became clear that investing in high-priced equipment was a bad idea. My second kid literally tore the glass door off the entertainment center. And ripped the knobs off the last stereo. It wasn't pretty.

I've never had a dedicated subwoofer.

That being said... holy c-r-a-p. I have this powered with a 1000W Buttkicker amp (gain turned down), and the thing is insane. WHen I first fired up the test tone, my daughter ran downstairs with a concerned look. "WHAT WAS THAT?". My young son had a look of shear terror on his face "BIG BOOMS!"

Extremely impressed. I have nothing to compare it to.. but I can't imagine what having more of these will sound like.

My daughter is rocking "phantom of the Opera" from her iPod on it right now. Insane.

Tim
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post #25 of 69 Old 09-26-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

I wanted the access panel to look a little classy:
IMG_1342.JPG

If you want it to look classy, might I suggest you wipe off all the fingerprints before you take the picture? tongue.gif

Just kidding of course, the finished cabinet looks great. Glad to hear everyone is enjoying it.

Chris

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post #26 of 69 Old 09-26-2012, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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If you want it to look classy, might I suggest you wipe off all the fingerprints before you take the picture? tongue.gif
Just kidding of course, the finished cabinet looks great. Glad to hear everyone is enjoying it.

Obviously you don't have kids. Wiping fingerprints was a task eliminated from my list 8 years ago smile.gif

My daughter is getting a real kick out of it.. she' been playing her iPod nonstop.

Again, I'm not any type of audiophile, but the bass is so low coming out of it. It doesn't necessarily need to be loud.. it just goes so low. I really would never have imagined it.

'course all you experts know all about that. For me, I never really had a system that plays low. Very cool.

Tim
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post #27 of 69 Old 09-26-2012, 03:45 PM
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Glad you like it.
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post #28 of 69 Old 09-27-2012, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Glad you like it.

Thanks for sharing your design! I'm thinking.. 2 more should be good smile.gif

Tim
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post #29 of 69 Old 12-10-2012, 05:49 AM
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That's some excellent work on your F-20 and ported sub. Can you tell me what kind of seal you used on your F-20's access panel? It doesn't make the access panel protrude much.
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post #30 of 69 Old 12-10-2012, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I used 1/2" speaker gasket tape. It compressed down very well. I haven't noticed any leaks.

Tim
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