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post #1 of 10 Old 08-04-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I'm a complete newb to speaker builds. But let me start out to how I got to this point:

I have looked at all the top brands that sell you "Home Theatre Systems", I mainly liked what Klipsch had to offer. What I don't like, as many who have posted these kinds of threads, the cost is absolutely nuts on these speakers, even second hand.

So I basically said the same thing to my Dad and he said, "Hell we could build speakers"... So It got me interested into what it would take to accomplish this task..... I have combed over some threads here and have found bits and pieces of information that I am looking for but not all in one, so that Is why i started this thread....

What I want to do: I want to build a home theater system that is mainly used for Movies/Sports/Music/Games in that order

What I want to Know:

Where can I learn to build speaker cabinets for my subwoofers and my 2 fronts, center, and 4 surrounds?

What are the quality drivers, components, amps pre/pro components I need to be looking for to put in my cabienets, complete audio setup

I'm not going to put a price on what price range i want to stay around as the reason i want to DIY is to save money, so I'm always looking for the best bang for your dollar deals but I want to get as close to Top tier quality as I can

I desperately need all of your help as I am ready to get this large project started!!!! Thanks ahead of time for your help!!
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post #2 of 10 Old 08-04-2012, 11:34 AM
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Building subwoofers is relatively easy to do, and can save you money if you already have the necessary power tools, or know somebody with the necessary power tools. This, for me, makes sense and is something I plan to do.

But regular speakers, on the other hand, can be a daunting task. How much is your time worth to you? It's not as simple as building a box, drilling out some circles and screwing some drivers into them. You have to think about tuning, ports, crossover frequencies, resonances, and more. It can be done, and there are people here who do it. The best scenario is somebody here provides you with a cutsheet and concise parts list. But if you want to actually design your own, you're going to have to spend hundreds of hours reading, learning mathematic formulas, and modeling before you even build your first speaker. And even after it's built, you're going to need some decent test equipment to help you iron out the bugs. If you're truly into DIY and want to build your own speakers, you're in the right place. I'm just warning you that making a good 2-way or 3-way speaker that rivals quality commerical offerings will be a highly involved task. In the end, you'll probably end up spending the same amount of money as you would on commercial speakers, unless you get really lucky and do it right on the first attempt.

Parts-express.com would be a good place to browse around and get a feel for how much individual components cost. They also have kit speakers if you want to be quasi DIY, that is, build your own speaker, but not necessarily design your own speaker.
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post #3 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 02:07 AM
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I agree with Dan re subs, but as for mains and surrounds, there are other options which make DIY worthwhile. These would be designs such as the Statement family or the forthcoming SEOS designs which would allow you to build someone else's already developed design. Everything for the Statements, including cut sheets and BOMs are available. There are many other designs out there like this and if you give budget, room size etc, something could be suggested that might suit.

All that you need to know to complete a project (subs and mains/surrounds) once a design is selected can be found by asking here. For a sub, give max size of enclosure and budget, as well as needs and future intentions, eg will build another sub later and we'll go from there.
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post #4 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thx for the responses, I know i was pretty broud in my original post as to want i was looking for. I am not really interested in "designing my own" speakers, I'm a paint by numbers kind of guy. I don't have all the tools, mainly the router and clamps but I do have spare time and I think I can build something comparable to the high end home theater systems at a fraction of the price, assuming I'm patient enough in my builds of the speakers...... So I am committed to building these things from scratch using someone else's designs....

The description of my HT Room: It is above the garage bonus room not fully enclosed due to stair off to the side, I figured hanging some currtain or something here would help "enclose" some of the sound... its an irregular sharped room, basically a 19 1/2 x 12 1/2 ft x 7 1/2 ft high ceiling. when looking at the Screen from sitting positiong there is a 4 ft deep nook to my left for 12 feet, I assume I'll be wiring up my audio cabinet over there. The screen side ceiling angles down from 7 1/2 ft to roughly 4 ft high over 3 ft, so not much of an issue as far as tv/projector. ....

I plan on using multiple subs and creating a 7.2 system and possibly add 2 subs in the future. Like I said before, this is going to be for movies/sports/music and some gaming in that order... I'm interested to here your thoughts on SEOS designs as it seems to be the most popular on this forum as of late.

If I can stay around 400 to 500 on each sub, cheaper always better, and I was planing on putting them between the center and fronts FL- Sub-Center-Sub-FR....

As far as the other speakers, I can spend as much money as needed to get those right. Like I stated in my first post, I am always looking for best bang for my buck, but the ultimate goal is building a home theater audio that rivals the likes of Klipsch and those guys....


Thanks again for the responses
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post #5 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I agree with Dan re subs, but as for mains and surrounds, there are other options which make DIY worthwhile. These would be designs such as the Statement family or the forthcoming SEOS designs which would allow you to build someone else's already developed design. Everything for the Statements, including cut sheets and BOMs are available. There are many other designs out there like this and if you give budget, room size etc, something could be suggested that might suit.

Wow, those statements are very interesting!

Boomer76: here's the link I found for the statements: http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/

I wish I knew for sure how they would stack up against a Klipsch RF-7ii/RC-64ii arrangement. If I had woodworking experience, I'd take a swing at those. Only issue I have is they don't have a dipole design for the statements. I suppose I could buy dipoles commercially, but I wonder how tonally matched they would be to the fronts. I also wonder how well the Statement towers mate with the Statement center. Time to do some extended googling...
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post #6 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

I wish I knew for sure how they would stack up against a Klipsch RF-7ii/RC-64ii arrangement.
Probably beat them in every important area, except a couple of dB efficiency (actual, not what Klipsch publish). I've heard most of the lower level K stuff now, and my opinion of it is not high. Don't take that as K bashing as I have owned Khorns, LaScala and Heresy and am a long time admired of PWK himself.
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If I had woodworking experience, I'd take a swing at those.
Cut sheets are available, and if you took them to a commercial kitchen maker that has accurate large tables and saws, you could get them all cut for modest money, very, very accurately. The rest is simple assembly, and not all that difficult.
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Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

Only issue I have is they don't have a dipole design for the statements.
First of all, almost every commercial design out there claiming to be di/bi-pole surrounds aren't. They're a kludge of drivers assembled on a weird shaped box. (Real) Dipoles may have some advantage when some of the surround channels were synthesised, but not now. ITU standards for monitoring rooms specify 5 (or 7) identical speakers, not monopole mains and diploe surrounds, so I see no different for the home.
About 3 years ago, I did some experimenting with dipoles, bipole and monos for surrounds, actually building a Jamo R909 type speaker for the dipole. Long story short, I'm building large capable monos for surrounds as they gave a better 3D soundfield.

If I were doing a Statement build, I'd do the LCR and Mini Statements for surrounds, though I expect the monitors would do fine in that regard for most people.
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Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

I suppose I could buy dipoles commercially, but I wonder how tonally matched they would be to the fronts.
They wouldn't
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I also wonder how well the Statement towers mate with the Statement center.
They would sound near identical, and certainly magnitudes better than the typical sideways MTM design, which is seriously flawed. Having the MT in a vertical array means no horizontal off axis comb filtering as below (350Hz) this the two LF drivers will still sum better off axis as they are still relatively close.

Note: I'm not endorsing the Statements, they were the first OTTOMH design as a suggestion, especially as I knew there were a number of variants and everything was worked out making a system build much less daunting for a first time DIYer, whom I'd much, much prefer was successful with the build and happy with the completed items. There are many other happy builders of these designs out there, so they must be pretty good.
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post #7 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

Wow, those statements are very interesting!
The various Statement speakers are very well-regarded as I'm sure will become apparent with some googling.

There's one very important consideration that might not pop up though: Statements need to be at least 18" out from the wall behind them to sound right. This is mentioned a few times in the original thread over at htguide, and comes up in other threads here and there, but I seem to remember seeing at least one person go so far as to start buying drivers for these intending to shove them up against a wall or build them into an entertainment center only to be told it won't work. Big bummer.

If your setup has the space, though, they'd likely be a great choice.
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post #8 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 03:48 PM
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alpha niner is right. but, you walked in at a tough time. erich has several flat pack seos kits in the works, but not quite fully baked. they will be high end performers on budget pricing. you may wish to hold out for them. see the "hey guys we need some rallying" thread post 1 for an overview and then go to diysoundgroup.com and/or subscribe to the thread for kit availability.

for the low end, it kind of depends on what you want. lilmike's f20 would be a good compromise if you don't mind the size and the extension limits and are very limited in budget. nice easy build that will blast a ton of bass. if you want to take a shot a behemoth tapped horn, we just did one for a guy in germany and got some good results. if you have some money, you could go for 8+ sealed 15" subs and pick up some good infrasonics or you could go nutz and build an 8x18" sealed system around lms ultras or re-xxx's. members notnyt and ricci are running those combinations along with a ton of power with good results. it all kind of depends on how loud and how low you want, how big and how much coin you can employ, and i know that is a tough question for a new guy to answer.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #9 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Probably beat them in every important area, except a couple of dB efficiency (actual, not what Klipsch publish). I've heard most of the lower level K stuff now, and my opinion of it is not high.

Do you consider the RF7iis to be in their lower level of stuff? From everything I've read about them, the 7s are in a different league than the 82s, so one can't judge an RF-7 based off the sound of an RF-82. I did read a thread here on AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1224991/what-does-jim-holtz-mini-statements-speakers-compare-to-commercially

and I'm not quite convinced. The 88-89db sensitivity concerns me, and the one person who listened to them said they got "loud" (distorted) before they got "loud". But at the end of the thread, everybody lambasted the guy because he went off on a post by the speaker's designer. So I'll have to check on HTGuide and try to find some more listening impressions.
Quote:
First of all, almost every commercial design out there claiming to be di/bi-pole surrounds aren't. They're a kludge of drivers assembled on a weird shaped box. (Real) Dipoles may have some advantage when some of the surround channels were synthesised, but not now. ITU standards for monitoring rooms specify 5 (or 7) identical speakers, not monopole mains and diploe surrounds, so I see no different for the home.

While I won't argue that 5/7/11 identical speakers is the ideal arrangement for a large room or a single listening position, my theater design philosophy is more toward the "no bad seats" philosophy rather than the "seat of excellence" philosophy. My current room is about 12' x 18', so for my situation, plilosophy, and desires, side dipoles would be more ideal.
Quote:
They would sound near identical, and certainly magnitudes better than the typical sideways MTM design, which is seriously flawed. Having the MT in a vertical array means no horizontal off axis comb filtering as below (350Hz) this the two LF drivers will still sum better off axis as they are still relatively close.

I wonder how well the center "keeps up" with the mains. Something else I'll have to look for in my research. I notice the center uses two 7" woofers instead of 8", and has one less midrange.

I did read through the Audioholics articles on center channel considerations. But after looking at the angles in my room, it looks like it won't be a big issue for me. My "worst seats" in the front row will put listeners ears maybe 15-20 degrees off axis from the tweeter. From what I read in the Audioholics article, things don't start getting bad until about 25 degrees off axis.

One other consideration I have is the speakers will have to be closer than ideal to the wall. But this will be true no matter which speakers I get. Hopefully when I move in 2 years, I'll have a room where the two doors to the room aren't 19" away from the front wall.

Anyhow, my interest is piqued in regards to the Statement speakers. Time to continue researching...
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post #10 of 10 Old 08-05-2012, 04:44 PM
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Another speaker to consider if your placement is near wall are the 3 or 4 Pi kits, with upgraded driver options of course.

http://www.pispeakers.com/Prices.html
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