My Lil Mike Cinema F-20 build and random pictures of my in progress theater. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey all. I have had my F-20 in my theater now for a few months and I am extremely pleased with it. I am getting usable output down to at least 17hz. I managed to take random pictures during the build process and would like to share them with other people who may appreciate them. I will also add some pictures of my home theater as it sits currently.

Theater Hardware:

Receiver - Onkyo tx sr608
Blu ray - Panasonic DMP-BDT220
Time Warner Cable box
Projector - Epson 8350
Projector screen - Elite screens sable frame 106"
Mains - Polk audio monitor 70 series 2
Center - BIC America FH6-LCR
Surrounds - Infinity
Sub - DIY Lil Mike Cinema F-20 with the dayton audio RSS390-HF
Sub Amp - Behringer Inuke - NU3000DSP
Seating is from Nebraska Furniture Mart

On to the pictures. These will be somewhat random. I know when I click on a thread I love to see pictures of what others are doing so this thread will have lots of them. Enjoy. (Excuse the quality of some of them as they were taken with my phone.)






F-20 compared to my attempt at a sonosub.

This will be the final resting place after paint.

Old Setup before seats and projector. It is a sony 60" DLP

My helper doing a little dancing

Painted flat black and added a speakon connector

Father's day present from my wife. She is very good at surprising me with the presents she gives.

Riser built out of 2x12's for the frame and then 2x8's 16" on center. I then used 1/2" osb for the floor. All screwed together.

Test fit of the chairs

Test fit of reclined chairs

Test fit of carpet

The wife and I picked this thing up and moved it around the basement so that we could carpet it.


Not too bad for our first carpet job ever.


Visualizing the screen. The pocket door on the right is to a closet. This kind of screwed me on fixed screen size. I know I could have gone with the manual pull down or motorized but the fixed seemed to be the way to go. The 106" that I selected fits perfectly between the bulkhead and the trim around the closet door with about 1/16" to spare.


Picked up the component cabinet at schaffers electronics.



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post #2 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 01:29 PM
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Very nice, like the progress so far! Keep it up!!!

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #3 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 01:47 PM
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Looks great so far. Dig the sub! Like the shot of your little helper too smile.gif
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post #4 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some more
















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post #5 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 03:04 PM
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Nice job! How did you secure your access panel? I'm thinking of using h-nuts and some cap screws to give it a little "industrial" feel.

PE also has a right-angle speakon plug, if you see the need. That's what I got for mine.

I used PL premium on the final piece when I closed her up.. love that stuff. Since I couldn't see the inside I made sure I used plenty smile.gif

I see you used the HF driver; are you able to measure the response? I have the DVC driver.

Tim

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post #6 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 05:22 PM
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props...

is there anyway that sub would fit in the nook/closet on the right?

also, a little absorber material at the first reflection on the walls might help clean up speech intelligibility.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #7 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Nice job! How did you secure your access panel? I'm thinking of using h-nuts and some cap screws to give it a little "industrial" feel.
PE also has a right-angle speakon plug, if you see the need. That's what I got for mine.
I used PL premium on the final piece when I closed her up.. love that stuff. Since I couldn't see the inside I made sure I used plenty smile.gif
I see you used the HF driver; are you able to measure the response? I have the DVC driver.
Tim

Thanks Mr. Tim! I just used screws into the flange that I built. Seems to be working fine. As far as I can tell I don't have any obvious leaks. The cap screws will look great. I will have to look into the right angle speakon to maybe hide mine a little better. I have been having avs member Kwarny come over with rew and his mic to take measurements. He was just over here last week to measure but there was a problem saving the files. I will try to have him come over again to measure and I will post them.
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post #8 of 26 Old 09-17-2012, 06:37 PM
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That was pretty awesome of the wife! Wish I could get a little more support with the theater from my better half.
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post #9 of 26 Old 09-18-2012, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

props...
is there anyway that sub would fit in the nook/closet on the right?
also, a little absorber material at the first reflection on the walls might help clean up speech intelligibility.

Thanks LTD! I imagine if I took down the metal shelving in the closet there would be room for the sub. Hadn't really thought about putting one in there. I have contemplated an infinite baffle manifold in there but have not calculated to see if the space is big enough. I will look into the Absorption material for the reflections
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post #10 of 26 Old 09-19-2012, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slickwilly8 View Post

That was pretty awesome of the wife! Wish I could get a little more support with the theater from my better half.

I was very shocked when I came home and they were just sitting in my basement. I have to throw a chick flick on every other movie to keep her interested in the theater as she is not much of an action fan.
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post #11 of 26 Old 01-07-2013, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I have finally found some time to take some measurements with REW. Can anybody tell me if this normal or if I did something wrong please? Thanks!

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post #12 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 08:00 AM
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That response looks to be inverted from what it should be.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


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post #13 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

That response looks to be inverted from what it should be.

I used an audyssey mic that came with my receiver. Could that be the problem? I have radio shack spl meter but I didnt have a long enough cable for it to use for the measurement. I will see if I can find a longer cable and compare using the spl meter. Any other ideas to what is making the response look weird?
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post #14 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03roadking View Post

I used an audyssey mic that came with my receiver. Could that be the problem? I have radio shack spl meter but I didnt have a long enough cable for it to use for the measurement. I will see if I can find a longer cable and compare using the spl meter. Any other ideas to what is making the response look weird?

The Audyssey mic needs no calibration file for bass measurements.

A couple comments:

Your levels are very low

I don't see a loopback calibration of the sound card, but that is not the main issue.

If you used the Audyssey mic, you've still got the RS meter's cal file loaded, which is inflating the low-end response.

Remove the RS meter's cal file, and uncheck C-weighting if it is checked. Things should be more accurate.

And....do not trust consumer gear as you dip below 20 Hz. With a bit of work, I can get to where I trust the data to 10 Hz, but not beyond that.

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post #15 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

The Audyssey mic needs no calibration file for bass measurements.
A couple comments:
Your levels are very low
I don't see a loopback calibration of the sound card, but that is not the main issue.
If you used the Audyssey mic, you've still got the RS meter's cal file loaded, which is inflating the low-end response.
Remove the RS meter's cal file, and uncheck C-weighting if it is checked. Things should be more accurate.
And....do not trust consumer gear as you dip below 20 Hz. With a bit of work, I can get to where I trust the data to 10 Hz, but not beyond that.




It seems I need to sharpen up my REW knowledge a little. Do you think I would have better results using the SPL meter as the mic vs. the Audyssey mic?
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post #16 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 11:11 PM
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I had no idea you started a thread. I need to backup my new SSD with my external and I may have measurements from past times. If not, measurements should go much faster even when I'm only running at 1/4 write/read speed. I may also order a Samsung 830 for my older computer if you would like to try either out sometime.

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post #17 of 26 Old 01-09-2013, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

I had no idea you started a thread. I need to backup my new SSD with my external and I may have measurements from past times. If not, measurements should go much faster even when I'm only running at 1/4 write/read speed. I may also order a Samsung 830 for my older computer if you would like to try either out sometime.

No biggie Kyle. I knew that your hard drive took a crap so I thought I would see if I could get some measurements. If you manage to salvage any off of your old harddrive though please post them whenever you have a free minute.. Oh and I still have one of your speaker wires that you left at my house from last time. Swing by whenever.
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post #18 of 26 Old 01-09-2013, 10:56 AM
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If the rest of the system is flat, I'd probably use the audyssey mic, it is more accurate, and does not need a calibration file.

Depending on the RS meter - it may or may not need a cal file. Notnyt posted comparisons a while back.

Sometimes the Mic input of the sound cards have a different rolloff than the line inputs though.

It all comes down to knowing what you have and knowing how it all works together.

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post #19 of 26 Old 01-09-2013, 08:14 PM
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Nice thread! I have now had my F20 running in my theatre room for over a year and I can honestly say I think its been the single biggest impact, literally! The other day I was adjusting some settings and my wife and 5 year old daughter were in their craft room on the opposite side of the house. When I was done my wife said that our daughter asked her "Is Daddy doing tests in the theater room or is this an earthquake, because I really think it's an earthquake!"


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post #20 of 26 Old 01-09-2013, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice thread! I have now had my F20 running in my theatre room for over a year and I can honestly say I think its been the single biggest impact, literally! The other day I was adjusting some settings and my wife and 5 year old daughter were in their craft room on the opposite side of the house. When I was done my wife said that our daughter asked her "Is Daddy doing tests in the theater room or is this an earthquake, because I really think it's an earthquake!"


haha! Too funny. I am very pleased with the output that I get from mine. Just watched the dark night rises the other night and the first time you see Batmans Aircraft was a really good workout for my F-20.
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post #21 of 26 Old 01-09-2013, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok after removing the Radio Shack SPL Meter cal file and a couple of other tweaks I have what looks to be a better looking measurement. Please critique.


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post #22 of 26 Old 01-09-2013, 10:38 PM
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I couldn't find it. Found the old sonotube measurements though haha.

That last measurement looks about right. I was thinking it rolled off around 18 Hz at your main position. Is your measurement with Dynamic EQ or a crossover on your AVR or with any EQ/low-pass filter/crossover on your Inuke ? I figure you are still running without the high pass too. I remember your room being pretty flat before you added some processing to taste wink.gif.

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post #23 of 26 Old 01-09-2013, 10:54 PM
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Sort of hard to see with your scale. Typically, I try to present a 60 dB range on the vertical axis, there is no need to take it down to zero. I also try to limit the horizontal axis to the range I'm worried about - in this case - something around 10 Hz to 200 Hz.



Looks like a strong room mode or some noise near 15 Hz, then the sub sort of comes into its own. Nulls at 47 and 60 could be due to mic placement or the room dimensions, likely a combination of both.

It appears that the sub is tailing off by 70 Hz, and is down 20 dB by 90 Hz.

Are you running Audyssey or some other auto-eq? Looks like it is crossing over around 70 Hz. depending on your mains, this might be a little early.

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post #24 of 26 Old 01-10-2013, 03:14 AM
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Nice additions! I know your enjoying the hell out of that larger fixed screen vs the tv. Big sub with big screen, whats not to like smile.gif Having the other half on board does make it easier. I'm sure she'll like the bass heavy scenes. Mine had to replace a recessed CFL light the other day from watching the avengers again.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #25 of 26 Old 01-10-2013, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

I couldn't find it. Found the old sonotube measurements though haha.

That last measurement looks about right. I was thinking it rolled off around 18 Hz at your main position. Is your measurement with Dynamic EQ or a crossover on your AVR or with any EQ/low-pass filter/crossover on your Inuke ? I figure you are still running without the high pass too. I remember your room being pretty flat before you added some processing to taste wink.gif.

Ha the ol Sonotube im curious how the measurements compare to the F-20. As far as EQ my receiver is the onkyo TS-XR608 so it is running the older Audyssey that does not eq the LFE. On the NU3000DSP I know I am not running a Highpass filter. I will check to see what I am running eq wise and for lowpass tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Sort of hard to see with your scale. Typically, I try to present a 60 dB range on the vertical axis, there is no need to take it down to zero. I also try to limit the horizontal axis to the range I'm worried about - in this case - something around 10 Hz to 200 Hz.



Looks like a strong room mode or some noise near 15 Hz, then the sub sort of comes into its own. Nulls at 47 and 60 could be due to mic placement or the room dimensions, likely a combination of both.

It appears that the sub is tailing off by 70 Hz, and is down 20 dB by 90 Hz.

Are you running Audyssey or some other auto-eq? Looks like it is crossing over around 70 Hz. depending on your mains, this might be a little early.

All good points Lilmike! I will adjust the scale to make it easier to read. Receiver is using the older Audyssey that does not EQ the LFE. I am going to check what lowpass filter I have my NU3000DSP set to.
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post #26 of 26 Old 01-10-2013, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

Nice additions! I know your enjoying the hell out of that larger fixed screen vs the tv. Big sub with big screen, whats not to like smile.gif Having the other half on board does make it easier. I'm sure she'll like the bass heavy scenes. Mine had to replace a recessed CFL light the other day from watching the avengers again.

The fixed screen is just awsome. After paying what I paid for that old sony dlp back in 2006 versus what the screen and the projector cost altogether it was really an easy decision to make. The wife is not as big as a Basshead as I am but if I get her to sit down long enough to watch a movie she really does enjoy it.
Quote:
Mine had to replace a recessed CFL light the other day from watching the avengers again

eek.gif wow I havent had anything like that happen yet. I must not be watching loud enough lol.
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