Titanic MK III 15's making europower clip at 4000watts? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 47 Old 09-20-2012, 11:34 AM
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Not sure what calculation you did which told you "sealed boxes only" but the titanic does fine ported and doesn't need that big of a box.  If you don't want ported, no worries they only deliver twice the spl all things considered equal.  Food for thought: There is a reason no commercial theater or IMAX you've ever seen uses sealed subs(that I'm aware of).  It takes an army of sealed 15s to displace enough air to work a space the size of yours.  As others have said 4 sealed 15s are a start but nowhere close to reference. 

 

As previously stated(by another member) your box is currently almost twice the size it needs to be.  I cant model on this computer but from memory the titanics in 3ft cubed nets about a .7Q.  You could fit two more drivers in the boxes you already have and do dual opposed if your bracing permits.  You will be very slightly on the small size but it will help protect you from excursion problems and driver damage.

 

Also, how do you know your not seeing x-max?  You might be there and not even know it.  Distortion is more difficult to hear from a sub and unless its complaining loudly mechanically you prob wouldn't even know.  Just sayin'

 

Corner loading is good for spl not so good for a flat response unless you load all four in a sealed rectangular room.  I agree though if you need some bump corners are free spl and worth using if the system runs out of steam.

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post #32 of 47 Old 09-24-2012, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I have not checked in. I did what Bill did and pointed them into the corners about a foot out, holy moly what a difference. EASILY had twice the volume, and really reduced the "dead spots" in the room, it made a HUGE improvement. I had to fiddle with the eq a bit, it was a little boomy at first, but I got her cinched in now. I will be starting another 2 15's project going to make them identical to the ones I currently have. But ty for the advice of pointing them into the corners...really made a good improvement.

As far as sealed vented goes, I used an online calculator on the diy site. You put your speaker parameters in, and it tells you which box your particular driver would work best IN.
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post #33 of 47 Old 09-24-2012, 10:55 AM
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As far as sealed vented goes, I used an online calculator on the diy site. You put your speaker parameters in, and it tells you which box your particular driver would work best IN.
'Best' is a relative term. In this case it means maximally flat response, which may or may not be best for your application.The Titanic 15 does have maximally flat (0.7Q) response in a 4.1 cu ft (net) box, but F3 is only 38Hz. In the same size vented box you can get the F3 down to 27Hz, with higher sensitivity throughout the passband. Response isn't maximally flat, but where subs are concerned that's usually a secondary consideration.

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post #34 of 47 Old 09-24-2012, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I now have them pointed straight into the corners of the room, about 2 out from corner. This is the best it has sounded yet. Thanks to all of you that gave be pointers along the way. I am going to build two more exactly like the first two, and stack them on the first two..wooo eeeeee should be fun! As of right now I actualy have a little bass almost at the other end of the room, about 40 feet away. Never had anything at all before. I usually listen to jazz, maybe a little ambient. I might put on some house stuff I have tonight see what it sounds like. Thanx again everyone.
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post #35 of 47 Old 09-24-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by aardvark1355 View Post

I now have them pointed straight into the corners of the room, about 2 out from corner. This is the best it has sounded yet. Thanks to all of you that gave be pointers along the way. I am going to build two more exactly like the first two, and stack them on the first two..wooo eeeeee should be fun! As of right now I actualy have a little bass almost at the other end of the room, about 40 feet away. Never had anything at all before. I usually listen to jazz, maybe a little ambient. I might put on some house stuff I have tonight see what it sounds like. Thanx again everyone.

Download or stream some of these highres tracks:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424334/the-truth-hz-your-diy-setup-cant-handle-this-a-compilation-of-infrasonic-music-by-dub-king/0_100#post_22383394

Be careful and good luck. =)
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post #36 of 47 Old 09-25-2012, 09:09 AM
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Much good advice given, for sure.

Nice room, I'd hate to destroy the entire space with a dividing wall. I just really dig that room, very 70's to me,...and that's a good thing cool.gif

If any room is made for corner loading subs, that room is.

Personally, I think you're on the right track,...in that you're going to add additional identical subs. As stated, be mindful of the internal volume, and excessive excursion. As Nickshitachi said, you could go dual opposed. Remember, theoretically, a doubling of drivers with the same power yields 3dB, a doubling of power yields 3dB, and of course a doubling of drivers and power yields 6dB.

You may wish to experiment with the corner loading some more. If you can get the drivers even tighter into the corner, you may likely experience even a bit more upper bass and maybe additional coherence. Be mindful to experiment appropriately with the mains as well to maintain a well blended reproduction through the crossover range.

"I now have them pointed straight into the corners of the room, about 2 out from corner. This is the best it has sounded yet."

If you've already tried closer into the corner, forget my previous suggestion about tight into the corner. You may experiment with co-location of both (all) subs in the center of the wall, or centered between the mains. Anyway, you're on a great track, maximizing the benefits of boundary loading, minimizing the destructive interference as well. With all the amplifiers, give some consideration to sufficient amperage and the negative effects of voltage drop as well.

Welcome to AVS and good luck.

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post #37 of 47 Old 09-25-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Download or stream some of these highres tracks:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424334/the-truth-hz-your-diy-setup-cant-handle-this-a-compilation-of-infrasonic-music-by-dub-king/0_100#post_22383394
Be careful and good luck. =)

Thanks for the heads up,...the vast majority of Dubstep I encounter does little for me, but this track has some characteristics that really set well with me,...smooth, more groove like and musical, sweet.

Yep, I appreciate it.

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post #38 of 47 Old 09-25-2012, 05:52 PM
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Thanks for the heads up,...the vast majority of Dubstep I encounter does little for me, but this track has some characteristics that really set well with me,...smooth, more groove like and musical, sweet.
Yep, I appreciate it.

It's not dub"step". iMagic had labeled his genre "minimalistic dub."

Pretty cool stuff. VERY taxing on most capable systems...
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post #39 of 47 Old 09-26-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

It's not dub"step". iMagic had labeled his genre "minimalistic dub."

Thanks, I saw that ... I know what I like,...but that's about it


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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

VERY taxing on most capable systems...

Yeah, I bet it is cool.gif

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post #40 of 47 Old 10-03-2012, 10:04 PM
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You should also check the speaker wiring polarity of your mains compared to the subs. You would be "out of phase" between them if this is incorrectly wired which would cancel out a significant amount of perceived bass power giving you the exact issue you are describing. Also be aware that while you may visually see that your positive and negative connections are the same between all speakers, one of the amps could be inverting the signal internally effectively reversing the polarity causing the same issue. The simple test is reverse the positive and negative speaker wire connections on both your main speakers and listen to how that effects the bass output. Listen to the same track and in the same seating location with the wiring both ways and the one with the most bass will give you the right polarity....generally speaking.

This is a very basic solution to look at as there are many other factors involved with room modes, crossover points etc that will cause the same issues but you have to get the polarity right first. Hope the suggestion helps.
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post #41 of 47 Old 10-04-2012, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Those samples are awesome.....post more 8-) Really tested ALL parts of my system. I run all balanced cables, a polarity switch would be nice, but my eq which has a dedicated sub out does not have one. But I will try your idea it does make sense. I have the materials (mdf), just need 2 mark 15's and another euro4000, then I will start that project. 4 15's in the corners, should blow the roof off (cross fingers). Thanx again everyone for all the ideas and support. I spend WAY to much time in these forums 8-).
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post #42 of 47 Old 10-04-2012, 06:38 AM
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You can also adjust "phase" of the subs with the distance setting on the AVR.  This will however affect your impulse response, but if I had a huge gap in FR due to a phase issue I would take a flat FR with misaligned impulse in almost every case........

 

You really need measurement capability to get the most out of this, but measuring FR can be done with a spl meter although laborious.  IR, you'll need REW or other measuring software.

 

Additionally:

 

  • What are your mains?
  • Are they ported or sealed?
  • If ported what are their port frequencies?
  • Do you run your mains as LARGE?
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post #43 of 47 Old 10-04-2012, 06:42 PM
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You can also adjust "phase" of the subs with the distance setting on the AVR.  This will however affect your impulse response
Yeah, slide it forward and backward in time, not change the shape of it.
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post #44 of 47 Old 10-04-2012, 07:09 PM
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You can also adjust "phase" of the subs with the distance setting on the AVR.  This will however affect your impulse response
Yeah, slide it forward and backward in time, not change the shape of it.

Not sure what this means.
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post #45 of 47 Old 10-04-2012, 07:16 PM
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Not sure what this means.
The distance controls on the receiver control delays that are intended to be used to make sure the sound from each speaker reaches the listener at the same time. Contrary to what you said, adding or subtracting delay from any channel of a receiver won't change the impulse response of what's connected to it. It simply changes when in time it arrives at the listener's position relative to the other channel.
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post #46 of 47 Old 10-04-2012, 07:27 PM
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Not sure what this means.
The distance controls on the receiver control delays that are intended to be used to make sure the sound from each speaker reaches the listener at the same time. Contrary to what you said, adding or subtracting delay from any channel of a receiver won't change the impulse response of what's connected to it. It simply changes when in time it arrives at the listener's position relative to the other channel.

Im quite aware of what it does. Changing the distance changes the time alignment which is measured in the impulse response window of REW.

Furthermore, thats why i put phase in "", changing the distance of the sub can smooth out FR at the expense of time alignment. While it doesnt change the overall phase of the sub it changes the relative phase of the sub to the mains which is the point I was trying to make. There are many caveats such that they can only be perfectly in phase at one frequency unless they are equidistant, etc, etc.

Listen StereoDUDE. I release you from any obligation you feel you have to correct any of my posts. My contributions are free and generally contributory and should be taken as such. Dont be TrollDUDE.
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post #47 of 47 Old 10-05-2012, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I am running straight from a pretty high end pre-amp, but it is older and I do not have delay features.
My mains I switch between, are a pair of Peavey mains, ported running full range, and an older pair of Mirage M3's which are also ported. Peavys have a 15' woofer, and a horn for highs, my Mirages have 10' woofers, and have drivers front and back. If I want loud I use Peaveys, if I want quality I use Mirages.
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