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post #901 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 12:53 PM
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PL,

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post #902 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Man, I hope they sound the same or at least REAL close. Hearing the Daytons in my room was extremely impressive, not just for output. The sound quality was every bit as good as the submersive so that's the gamble I'm taking by buying the SIs instead of the Daytons

Im going to a buddy's house this saturday who has both the SI and Dayton's in dual opposed boxes. There's another person going with a SubM, im gonna ask him and see if he'd be up to bringing it over.

I think that would make a GREAT comparison. smile.gif
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post #903 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Im going to a buddy's house this saturday who has both the SI and Dayton's in dual opposed boxes. There's another person going with a SubM, im gonna ask him and see if he'd be up to bringing it over.

I think that would make a GREAT comparison. smile.gif

Interested to hear what you guys think! Will they both be using the same boxes and same amp?

I thought they sounded very similar - with the dayton having a slightly 'deeper' tone, but that's only to my ear and based only on some short listening sessions. Realistically in a blind test it's likely I couldn't tell them apart. I hadn't yet grabbed measurements and really didn't get to compare them as much as I had liked to since the one SI driver had an issue. I do have 4 more of the SIs now but it will be some time before I have them up and running in boxes.

I'm going to be making some speaker stands next for my new mains and I can't get the idea of cramming more subs into the stands out of my head. biggrin.gif
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post #904 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Interested to hear what you guys think! Will they both be using the same boxes and same amp?

Im not positive, but i think the cabs are the same size. Same for the amps.
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post #905 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 01:30 PM
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Are you guys adding Polyfil in your boxes running these, or is there no need? Dual opposed at ~ 6.5-7 cu ft. should be good right?
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post #906 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Im going to a buddy's house this saturday who has both the SI and Dayton's in dual opposed boxes. There's another person going with a SubM, im gonna ask him and see if he'd be up to bringing it over.

I think that would make a GREAT comparison. smile.gif

Props to that Submersive owner if he comes through... Those three players were going to be the primary focal point of Rilla's 15 Dec GTG. Receiving a damaged SI Sub and not being able to find a Submersive owner interested in bringing out their their toy totally shat all over that idea...

 

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post #907 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Props to that Submersive owner if he comes through... Those three players were going to be the primary focal point of Rilla's 15 Dec GTG. Receiving a damaged SI Sub and not being able to find a Submersive owner interested in bringing out their their toy totally shat all over that idea...
Yeah no kidding huh?? To be honest after this comparison I would not be surprised if he did some changes to his bass system. Dont get me wrong his dual SubM's sound great! But after my last visit to his place i got the impression that he's looking for more. And unlike myself, he's got plenty of room to go with the Popa-special!biggrin.gif
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post #908 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Im not positive, but i think the cabs are the same size. Same for the amps.

There the same size, approx. 6.5cuft. They will both get about 2000 watts/1000 watts each driver.

I only had a chance to take a quick 30 min listen a couple of nights ago but they do sound pretty similar.

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post #909 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Im going to a buddy's house this saturday who has both the SI and Dayton's in dual opposed boxes. There's another person going with a SubM, im gonna ask him and see if he'd be up to bringing it over.

I think that would make a GREAT comparison. smile.gif

Cool, looking forward to what you guys think. The consensus over here between the Submersive and the dual opposed Dayton was that it was very close in both output and sound quality. Most scenes the max output was almost the same db level. When push came to shove though on the x-men beach scene, the Submersive made a couple bad noises and the Dayton cruised through it.
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post #910 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I thought they sounded very similar - with the dayton having a slightly 'deeper' tone, but that's only to my ear and based only on some short listening sessions.

Andrew I've seen you post this before and this is what makes me just a touch nervous. Like I've said, the Dayton sounded very similar to the Submersive - on movies it would be really hard to tell them apart. However, for music the Dayton has this "weighty" sound to it that may be what you describe as a "deeper tone". Whatever it is, I love it and hope I won't be losing that with the SI's. I need to chill, but I'm paranoid by nature. I guess if worse came to worse I could probably sell the SI drivers and buy Daytons, hopefully it won't come to that though.
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post #911 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Andrew I've seen you post this before and this is what makes me just a touch nervous. Like I've said, the Dayton sounded very similar to the Submersive - on movies it would be really hard to tell them apart. However, for music the Dayton has this "weighty" sound to it that may be what you describe as a "deeper tone". Whatever it is, I love it and hope I won't be losing that with the SI's. I need to chill, but I'm paranoid by nature. I guess if worse came to worse I could probably sell the SI drivers and buy Daytons, hopefully it won't come to that though.

I wouldn't sweat it. Andrew made a quick assessment without any eq'ing etc. The Si is spec'd for a larger box so this might have some bearing on the sound discrepancy. This is all talking out my butt, but I think the Daytons might have a slight advantage in a smaller cab than the Si's.

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post #912 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 03:33 PM
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PL,

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post #913 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 03:57 PM
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post #914 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 04:04 PM
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Is this me?

If it is, thanks. smile.gif

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LOL. I was lazy and decided to slang abbreviate your name. smile.gif

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post #915 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I wouldn't sweat it. Andrew made a quick assessment without any eq'ing etc. The Si is spec'd for a larger box so this might have some bearing on the sound discrepancy. This is all talking out my butt, but I think the Daytons might have a slight advantage in a smaller cab than the Si's.

This. The response from both the dayton and SI model almost identically, with a slight edge in output to the SI. Definitely no need to worry man. Now get started on those things!!!
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post #916 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Yeah no kidding huh?? To be honest after this comparison I would not be surprised if he did some changes to his bass system. Dont get me wrong his dual SubM's sound great! But after my last visit to his place i got the impression that he's looking for more. And unlike myself, he's got plenty of room to go with the Popa-special!biggrin.gif

Selling two Subm's would definitely free up the funds!

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Andrew I've seen you post this before and this is what makes me just a touch nervous. Like I've said, the Dayton sounded very similar to the Submersive - on movies it would be really hard to tell them apart. However, for music the Dayton has this "weighty" sound to it that may be what you describe as a "deeper tone". Whatever it is, I love it and hope I won't be losing that with the SI's. I need to chill, but I'm paranoid by nature. I guess if worse came to worse I could probably sell the SI drivers and buy Daytons, hopefully it won't come to that though.

Man, with the T/S parameters being soooo close in almost every regard, it makes me wonder if this "deepness" could be from the cone matetial itself? Aluminum vs paper...or is that way out in left field?

 

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post #917 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 04:32 PM
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Reminds me of my comparison between the SVS pb13 ultra and the rythmik fv15hp. The rythmik was super clean sounding. The SVS had what I called a "thicker" sound to it that I also preferred. Thing is, the rythmik was aluminum and the ultra was a type of composite so this would be opposite. Although they were very different drivers beyond their cone material.

I'm betting it had to do with EQ.

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post #918 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 04:58 PM
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...I'm betting it had to do with EQ.
When we did the SubMersive and Dayton listening session, the frequency responses were almost identical. Like, it was scary how close they were. And I agree with carp, there was some (fairly slight) weight or thickness or something to the Dayton's, I subjectively liked it, but several of us agreed it was there. *shrug*
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post #919 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:10 PM
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mrsmithers

it was my understanding they were purposely eq'ed to be close frequency responses for that comparison, no?

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post #920 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MrSmithers View Post

When we did the SubMersive and Dayton listening session, the frequency responses were almost identical. Like, it was scary how close they were. And I agree with carp, there was some (fairly slight) weight or thickness or something to the Dayton's, I subjectively liked it, but several of us agreed it was there. *shrug*

Dang. Isn't the Submersive dual 15"? That's impressive that it can keep up with the dual 18's. up to a certain level I'm guessing.

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post #921 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Dang. Isn't the Submersive dual 15"? That's impressive that it can keep up with the dual 18's. up to a certain level I'm guessing.

I'd like to compare the SI 15's I bought to the SubM. Turns out I just happen to have a DO box built to SubM dimensions...

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Now just need a SubM to see how the SI's stack up...

 

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post #922 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Selling two Subm's would definitely free up the funds!
Man, with the T/S parameters being soooo close in almost every regard, it makes me wonder if this "deepness" could be from the cone matetial itself? Aluminum vs paper...or is that way out in left field?

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post #923 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

mrsmithers

it was my understanding they were purposely eq'ed to be close frequency responses for that comparison, no?

No eq for either, but he did boost the low end (it's not called that but I'm ignorant and don't pay attention) to the Dayton's using the minidsp.
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post #924 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:43 PM
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mrsmithers

it was my understanding they were purposely eq'ed to be close frequency responses for that comparison, no?
Nosir, no parametric EQ used at all. Just a SubM on top of a DoD, level matched.
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Dang. Isn't the Submersive dual 15"? That's impressive that it can keep up with the dual 18's. up to a certain level I'm guessing.
Correct. You can make an awfully small single woofer "keep up" as long as the sweep is run down in the noise floor biggrin.gif The SubM is an awfully capable subwoofer system, it's more bass than a huge percentage of people would ever want and it almost always sounds exceptionally smooth while doing it. carp's reference above to the X-Men: First Class beach scene is the first time I've EVER heard it make bad noises (and subsequently the first time I've seen either the yellow or red light come on..we saw both). Also Gorilla's Dayton's would have a touch more output than mine, and you could get a touch more with an even bigger box but the excursion would also increase and we're talking, if I remember right, like 1 dB difference between 7 and 8 cubes in a sim.
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No eq for either, but he did boost the low end (it's not called that but I'm ignorant and don't pay attention) to the Dayton's using the minidsp.
Correct, there was an L/T, I think it was 6dB and I wasn't comfortable doing more than that given that we didn't have time to test and fine-tune after taking the SMS out of the chain.
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post #926 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:52 PM
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and just to add. were not both the SI drivers Gorilla had prototypes? not to mention there was something wrong with one. i know how you feel carp, but im personally not worried about it.

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post #927 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 05:55 PM
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MK, I guess what I'm missing is why you need to upgrade. If your already capable of well past reference at 10hz and turn down the subs when you're actually watching movies....plus you like the sound better than any system you've had before? I understand the upraditis, but most people aren't anywhere close to your system's capability. I like what someone wrote about whenever they feel that itch to upgrade--they just turn the subs up 10 db and the feeling goes away.
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More money than sense. tongue.gif

This!
I won't give my subs away but things have to happen in my direction for me to change. I would gain zero output because I could turn mine up already and just have it coasting, the SI's would be turned down even more. Still I am thinking the dimensions of the boxes would perfectly create a baffle wall or I would build a baffle and just put these in the wall.
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post #929 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 08:14 PM
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Props to that Submersive owner if he comes through...
Looks like the Submersive is a GO!
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post #930 of 2273 Old 01-10-2013, 09:36 PM
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That's how I have mine running. What size are the boxes for your XXX's?

They are about 7.5 cuft each so they would do well with 2 each at 1,100 watts per driver. Really I am rebuilding the two that i have, and adding two more for the final product, just adjusting the depth so the rear drivers don;t bang against the rear wall when they are running hard.

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Are you guys adding Polyfil in your boxes running these, or is there no need? Dual opposed at ~ 6.5-7 cu ft. should be good right?

See above, but yes, polyfill will be used at least in mine. Not to make the drivers see a "larger" cabinet but to quell the resonant freq's of the box itself. I always use poly as well.

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Andrew I've seen you post this before and this is what makes me just a touch nervous. Like I've said, the Dayton sounded very similar to the Submersive - on movies it would be really hard to tell them apart. However, for music the Dayton has this "weighty" sound to it that may be what you describe as a "deeper tone". Whatever it is, I love it and hope I won't be losing that with the SI's. I need to chill, but I'm paranoid by nature. I guess if worse came to worse I could probably sell the SI drivers and buy Daytons, hopefully it won't come to that though.

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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Selling two Subm's would definitely free up the funds!
Man, with the T/S parameters being soooo close in almost every regard, it makes me wonder if this "deepness" could be from the cone matetial itself? Aluminum vs paper...or is that way out in left field?

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Originally Posted by MrSmithers View Post

When we did the SubMersive and Dayton listening session, the frequency responses were almost identical. Like, it was scary how close they were. And I agree with carp, there was some (fairly slight) weight or thickness or something to the Dayton's, I subjectively liked it, but several of us agreed it was there. *shrug*

Not cone material but more the fact that the SubM if it was active, had a HPF setup on it where the dayton did not. I know you measured them equal but I would think the SI's with their extra displacement would be able to delve deeper than the dual 15's and that was what you actually were hearing. The additional displacement of the SI's even if the subM was passive would still account for this fact.

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