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post #181 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 06:08 PM
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I was just telling popalock that I wanted to remove our king bed from the master bedroom and replace with a WALL of 16 of these drivers. Incredibly inexpensive here, I really hope they come to production soon and hope they can keep up with demand. smile.gif
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post #182 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 07:10 PM
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Impressive... Thanks Ricci! 4 D4s to an inuke 6000 for 900W a piece and some great bang for the buck. Tempting...
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post #183 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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Has anyone tried entering Ricci's values into WinISD? It fails the consistency check for me when I try to save the file. It's been a while, so I don't know what I've done wrong.
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post #184 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 07:48 PM
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most likely just rounding errors that winisd is very sensitive to.

i'll go give it a shot just to confirm.

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post #185 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 07:49 PM
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How would one extrapolate the max SPL results in Ricci tests to a limited power scenario?
e.g. What numbers could one expect from , say, inuke3000 (1KW RMS 1.5KW peak @ 2 oHm)?
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post #186 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 07:54 PM
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i entered the data...works just fine. here is what to do...

make sure all fields are clear, then
enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material

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post #187 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 08:05 PM
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"How would one extrapolate the max SPL results in Ricci tests to a limited power scenario?
e.g. What numbers could one expect from , say, inuke3000 (1KW RMS 1.5KW peak @ 2 oHm)?"

that is kind of difficult to say. winisd has 108db @1m @20hz for 1kw in 4 cubic foot sealed at 1000 watts per driver.

the dual 4 ohm option allows for a better match to the behringers in sealed configuration.

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post #188 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 08:40 PM
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Thanks LTD02, it works now. Entering uH as mH in LE makes for some interesting models. eek.gif
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post #189 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

that is kind of difficult to say. winisd has 108db @1m @20hz for 1kw in 4 cubic foot sealed at 1000 watts per driver.

thank you.
the test shows 104.2 @ 20 Hz with 80v applied. For 4ohm load it is 1.6kW signal if I am not mistaken. It seems like at the low frequencies, where THD is the limiting factor, the power consumption was within the capabilities of the iNuke 3000.

But what to do with higher SPL numbers where extreme voltage was applied? We know for example that with 283v (20kW ?!) signal the driver delivers 122.3dB SPL @ 60Hz. For the estimate, can I just cut the power in half and subtract 3dB from the max SPL number until I reach the target power level? This approach would give me approx 110dB @ 60Hz with 1.25kW signal. Does it seem reasonable?

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the dual 4 ohm option allows for a better match to the behringers in sealed configuration.
can you expand on this? I was wondering which version to get, given that I am only buying 2 at this point, but may want to double the number of drivers down the road.
thank you.
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post #190 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 08:49 PM
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np fred, glad you got it working.

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post #191 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 09:25 PM
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Sigh, tonight is just not my night. Now I get wonky results on the Mach 5 UXL I input. Can someone tell me how two of the SI 18s compares to a single UXL in a ported enclosure. I'm thinking either of these would be ok tuned in the 14Hz range.

I would play around some more, but I'm actually supposed to be working...
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post #192 of 2273 Old 11-29-2012, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfish View Post

I would play around some more, but I'm actually supposed to be working...

That's where setting up a quick minimize button on your mouse comes in handy. biggrin.gif

I'm really having conflicts now. I was all set to go with the 4 Daytons, but for a couple hundred more I could do 6 SI's and really go over the top. smile.gif If this lineup is anything like their mobile drivers, I will be a happy camper. Very nice SQ woofers with nice output to boot.

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post #193 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I was just telling popalock that I wanted to remove our king bed from the master bedroom and replace with a WALL of 16 of these drivers. Incredibly inexpensive here, I really hope they come to production soon and hope they can keep up with demand. smile.gif
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Heheh. No problem. smile.gif
Argh! Now I want to order four of these, myself. redface.gif

Edit: Reserved pending research.
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post #194 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 02:24 AM
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"can you expand on this? I was wondering which version to get, given that I am only buying 2 at this point, but may want to double the number of drivers down the road."

the inuke 3000 and the ep4000 both reach max power with a 2 ohm load on each channel. in 4 cubic feet, it would appear that the si ht18 can take 1000 watts.

the dual 4 ohm voice coil allows for wiring each driver for a 2 ohm load.

the inuke 6000 requires a minimum of 4 ohms per channel, so you'd put 2 drivers per channel. in that case series wire the drivers for 8 ohms each and parallel two together for a net 4 ohm load.

again, approximately 1000 real watts per driver.

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post #195 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 04:35 AM
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josh, in the review, you mention, "The slight hump in response is likely due more to a high system Q in this enclosure than inductance." which suggests a high q.

when i enter your t/s specs into winisd, i get a different result.

with your measurements, i get a q=0.702 in the 4.2 cubic foot test enclosure. that should have no 'high q hump'. all the rolloff appears to be inductance related.

maybe i made a mistake. here is what i'm looking at.


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post #196 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"can you expand on this? I was wondering which version to get, given that I am only buying 2 at this point, but may want to double the number of drivers down the road."
the inuke 3000 and the ep4000 both reach max power with a 2 ohm load on each channel. in 4 cubic feet, it would appear that the si ht18 can take 1000 watts.
the dual 4 ohm voice coil allows for wiring each driver for a 2 ohm load.
the inuke 6000 requires a minimum of 4 ohms per channel, so you'd put 2 drivers per channel. in that case series wire the drivers for 8 ohms each and parallel two together for a net 4 ohm load.
again, approximately 1000 real watts per driver.
I knew I was missing something. I obviously did not know what dual voice coil means. the noob shines through wink.gif
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post #197 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 09:03 AM
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John,

Good catch. For some reason I thought it was up around 0.8. Shoulda double checked. I will correct it.

Btw this driver is dual 2 ohm not 4. Dcr with coils in series is 3.5 ohm.
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post #198 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 02:58 PM
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the si website mentions that the ht18 is available in either dual 2 or dual 4 configurations.

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post #199 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 03:08 PM
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Well I am on a streak then. Didn't know that.
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post #200 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 04:53 PM
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minor details...just thought i'd kick it out there for folks who might be interested in pairing up si drives with behringer amps. iirc, they just recently updated the website with that data anyways.

technical question josh. at the bottom of the results http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=90&mset=97 there are the cea thresholds mapped in red and the response harmonics in blue. all of them are limited by the red except the 10hz blast. many of those harmonics rise over the red threshold. that would seem to be a fail and spl would have to be lowered to get a pass. i've seen the blue up past the red in a few other tests as well. am i reading the results right or is there more to it?

as for the driver, very good performance, not too shabby looks (and no crappy logo!), great price, optional wiring...i can see folks getting stoked on this one.

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post #201 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 05:49 PM
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I'll probably be getting the 4.5ft flatpack for mine. Will I be selling the potential severely short by using a 500w Bash plate I already own?

I have the 2 ohm dvc, as tested by Ricci.

In any case, I'll eventually get a bigger amp for it, but am now wondering how limited my options are (for low cost pro amps) having the 2 ohm variety.
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post #202 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 06:08 PM
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post #203 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 06:21 PM
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inuke 3000 can do 2 ohms and its pretty cheap

It is $345 at Amazon right now and they take another 15% off at checkout. So under $300 shipped....

I grabbed one, I believe it is the cheapest I have seen it.
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post #204 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 06:35 PM
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Since Ricci reported that the suspension is very compliant, limited Watts and a little larger box sounds very efficient down in ulf territory. That is one of the huge advantages of an IB, little power necessary to really get the cones moving. 8 of these bridged on on the Cerwin Vega amp with larger than 4 cubic boxes sounds supremely efficient. Am I off in my thinking?
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post #205 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 06:37 PM
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"Will I be selling the potential severely short by using a 500w Bash plate I already own?"

i wouldn't put it that way. that amp wants 4 ohms, so you have the right driver for it (coils in series of course).

"In any case, I'll eventually get a bigger amp for it, but am now wondering how limited my options are (for low cost pro amps) having the 2 ohm variety."

in theory 3db max. in reality, a couple db or so. we are really talking about optimizing the last bit here...not if the overall system is kick-azz or not.
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post #206 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

It is $345 at Amazon right now and they take another 15% off at checkout. So under $300 shipped....
I grabbed one, I believe it is the cheapest I have seen it.

Ummm, it's 270 shipped at Musicians Friend.

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post #207 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
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technical question josh. at the bottom of the results http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=90&mset=97 there are the cea thresholds mapped in red and the response harmonics in blue. all of them are limited by the red except the 10hz blast. many of those harmonics rise over the red threshold. that would seem to be a fail and spl would have to be lowered to get a pass. i've seen the blue up past the red in a few other tests as well. am i reading the results right or is there more to it?.

That is correct. Red line is the limit. Above is fail below is pass. The 10hz is an obvious highly distorted fail. That is the result from the max spl regardless of distortion. The red output spl in the right of the cea2010 chart. I usually throw one or two of those in the low bass range to show what the output looks like when the system is severely over driven.
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post #208 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 08:09 PM
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roger.

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post #209 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 08:24 PM
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OK, honest question.

What are the advantage to the more expensive drivers in comparison to these less expensive ones? I'd assume a lot of people on here are looking at spending a realistic amount of funds on a sub project (say less than 2k). Having had a LMS 5400 in the past, why would one go that direction over these drivers?

You could run 4 Daytons or 4 SI's for the price of one 5400; or if you really got crazy an 8 to 2 ratio. I'm a big believer in the TC, but it can't work miracles.

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post #210 of 2273 Old 11-30-2012, 08:33 PM
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each has its place.

the two low cost drivers that you mention like much more cab volume.

big throw drives and big power work fine in small cabs. not the cheapest solution, but not everyone is always looking for the cheapest solution. ;-)

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