amp upgrade for 2x lms-r 15" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 09-22-2012, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Right now I have a crown xls 1500 and a ep4000 both bridged to power 2 15" LMS-R's.. I was looking to upgrade to maybe just 1 amp and also get a bump in wattage. I have the Denon avr2113c with Audyssey XT receiver with the art cleanbox pro 2.

I guess I have a couple of options.

1) Behringer inuke 6000 with the DSP
2) QSC gx7
3) crown xti 4002

Kind of leaning towards the inuke.. I was hoping the DSP would also give me some boost and/or add more room correction. I'm guessing the inuke would give me a little less than double an ep4000? That being said the QSC is only around 250 watts more per channel and no DSP.. Do you think I should still look into some sort of addition DSP?

The crown has the most wattage but also costs around 800 to 1000 bucks.. no DSP either...

I'm just not sure how much more I would be getting if I added a DSP in the mix or if I should just grab the QSC (can get a local deal on one).

Thoughts? Just looking to see what my best option would be.. Open to other ideas as well.

thanks,
Mike
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post #2 of 17 Old 09-22-2012, 01:00 PM
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2x the power gives a 3dB increase, which is barely noticeable at LF. None of the amps you mention seem to offer much of an improvement over what you have.
If you want EQ get a MiniDSP.
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post #3 of 17 Old 09-22-2012, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

2x the power gives a 3dB increase, which is barely noticeable at LF. None of the amps you mention seem to offer much of an improvement over what you have.
If you want EQ get a MiniDSP.

Yeah, I realized what I posted later when I revisited the specs of the xls 1500.. Guess it goes 1500 watts @ 4 ohms bridged... Just seems like I'm not getting close to xmax at these ratings...

Definitely waiting to see if PE ever carries the minidsp.. also waiting to see if they get in some nice 18" HF 18+ xmax subs...

thanks,
Mike
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post #4 of 17 Old 09-23-2012, 09:11 PM
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The best amp south of $10k is a FP14k clone, get one and be done with it wink.gif
(The best...at least that *I know of...)

Otherwise you are wasting your money.
From your list I pick "none of the above", based on sure-fire choices that I know of.

If you can't bring yourself to send money to china, then the next best option is two bridged MA-5050's, at twice the price and half the efficiency.

The other options are a: K10, IT8000 or PL380 (in that order).

You can thank me later biggrin.gif
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post #5 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

The best amp south of $10k is a FP14k clone, get one and be done with it wink.gif

Do you mean south of $1k? If you go with the Clone be careful man... Using the Clone you will he pushing out approximately 4,400 watts in stereo at 4ohms... That is A LOT of power for a single LMS-R. Technically you could run 4 LMS-R's per channel and still exceed their 1,000 RMS rating...

 

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post #6 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Do you mean south of $1k? If you go with the Clone be careful man... Using the Clone you will he pushing out approximately 4,400 watts in stereo at 4ohms... That is A LOT of power for a single LMS-R. Technically you could run 4 LMS-R's per channel and still exceed their 1,000 RMS rating...
There is a considerable difference between power applied with test tones or white noise, vs that with a dynamic varying signal.
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post #7 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 05:47 AM
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If the clean box has not been modified, you loosing a lot under 20hz. I would look for a used QSC 4050HD. They are good to roughly 5 hz..
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post #8 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

There is a considerable difference between power applied with test tones or white noise, vs that with a dynamic varying signal.

To expand upon this comment I believe the point A9 is getting at (in reference to my comment about pushing 4 LMS-R's per channel) is that you would be within the thermal handling capability of the LMS-R unless you were torturing it with serious sine wave test tones...

Was that the point A9?

Or was your comment in response to my statement about being careful pushing 4,400 watts to a single LMS-R? If so, I can't concur with your throw caution to the wind when playing a dynamic varying signal comment.

Cabinet specs aside, I have Dual LMS-U's and it's been proven that the FP14K Clone can bottom them out with relative ease... Regardless of how dynamic of a signal you feed the FP14K, unless you have the necessary filters/protection implemented, you have to exercise caution... Unless you want your subs looking like this. Also keep in mind that the LMS-U is rated @ 2000/8000.

787e999d.jpg
ce81f3a7.jpg

 

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post #9 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 09:43 AM
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I've modeled the LMSR15 with 1,100w and it does fine as long as the enclosure space isn't too large. Four per channel (while expensive) on a 14k clone is an awesome combo.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #10 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

To expand upon this comment I believe the point A9 is getting at (in reference to my comment about pushing 4 LMS-R's per channel) is that you would be within the thermal handling capability of the LMS-R unless you were torturing it with serious sine wave test tones...
Was that the point A9?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Or was your comment in response to my statement about being careful pushing 4,400 watts to a single LMS-R? If so, I can't concur with your throw caution to the wind when playing a dynamic varying signal comment.
Wanna show me where I said "throw caution to the wind"? I never said or implied that, so don't put words in my mouth.

Stay within Xmech, but otherwise applied power can be very high short term with no damage, especially with lots of EQ.
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post #11 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I've modeled the LMSR15 with 1,100w and it does fine as long as the enclosure space isn't too large. Four per channel (while expensive) on a 14k clone is an awesome combo.

Getting you to run one of those famous Scott Sims would have been my next response...lol

Man, 8 LMS-R's in dual opposed boxes would...be...signifigant...

 

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post #12 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Getting you to run one of those famous Scott Sims would have been my next response...lol
Man, 8 LMS-R's in dual opposed boxes would...be...signifigant...

Yeah, they are. I use them as reference to what I'd need to get if I wanted more RLp18's.... sort of. They model identically. It's awesome. Using the dual-opposed cabs that I've designed and plan to install soon, I only have room for three subwoofers so if I had to get more bass behind the upcoming wall O JBL's then a quad LMSR15 cab would be my first or second choice with dual opposed XXX18's being my other choice..... or Aura 18's but...expensive-O!

Here is a comparison and a sim for you. biggrin.gif FYW, I'm using complex inductance model on the RLP18's so the response from about 50hz and up would be identical in reality most likely. Or something in between the two lines for the both of them, actually.

LMSR15vsRLP18.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #13 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 10:45 AM
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Off the chart... Sorry for getting a bit off topic Mike... Just giving you idea of how to best utilize a Clone if you ended up getting one.

 

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post #14 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Yes.
Wanna show me where I said "throw caution to the wind"? I never said or implied that, so don't put words in my mouth.
Stay within Xmech, but otherwise applied power can be very high short term with no damage, especially with lots of EQ.

My bad. Didn't mean to make assumptions. Guess I assumed your response to my post was disagreeing with my caution...

 

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post #15 of 17 Old 02-08-2013, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to bring up an older thread but I've made some changes and I'm back to maybe upgrade my amp for the 2 LMS-R's.. right now I have 2 LMS-R's and 2 dayton 18" subs. I have the ep4000 hooked up to the LMS-R's and I have a crown 1500 xls hooked up to the 2 18's. I was thinking of repurposing my crown xls 1500 for the fronts and moving the ep4000 to the 2 dayton's. So I'd be left with trying to upgrade an ep4000.

Has anyone posted before to dealt with the Peavey CS 4080HZ? Seems like I might be able to get one new for the money in my budget.. A clone would be fun/nice to have but I just can't see spending the money and having a fault or something.

another option might be to just ditch the LMS-R's cause I'm really not getting much overall from them.. they really only play from 50 Hz down and even with movies I'm not getting enough out of them. I could reuse the boxes and get 2 15" UM15-22's..

Any other thoughts?

thanks,
Mike
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-09-2013, 01:20 PM
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Noah Katz had the Peavey CS4080HZ, and ended up replacing it with another amp, IIRC, it was an IPR series amp. You could try pinging him for more information.

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post #17 of 17 Old 02-09-2013, 03:06 PM
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What about ditching the LMS and grabbing two more Daytons or two 18 SI's? Keep the ep4000, modify your boxes a bit, and probably by the time you sell the 15's you'd be about cost neutral.
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