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post #181 of 233 Old 10-18-2012, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

congratulations mfrey.
Thanks, LT I totally enjoyed doing this...

Got my spikes on today. I was in a hurry to try and finish before dinner so I forgot to take pics but I used the large chrome ones from Dayton. They seem very nice, well made. I have carpet over concrete, so having the box flat on the ground wasn't going to cut it.

Making 4 new holes in my cabinet makes me paranoid, but I drowned them all in Liquid Nails.

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post #182 of 233 Old 10-19-2012, 03:14 AM
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OP I am looking for an update as to which driver did you end up going with? Was it the TC Sounds Epic-12? Did you end up going with a sealed enclosure? What are the enclosures specs?
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post #183 of 233 Old 10-19-2012, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Sweet 105db is not too shabby!
If your clipping on the low stuff you might try using these scenes: WOTW- Pods emerge scene, Inception- dunk scene and marketplace scenes. Those are some of the hottest program materials Ive found on bass.

+1

Nice scenes for sure! I'd also add Hulk - Pulse Cannon and Cloverfield - Military Engage Monster in Street sceens to your must demo list. Those scenes are ridiculously intense and both go really low.

Gosh, we could get off topic quick with all of the recommendations for awesome bass scenes.

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post #184 of 233 Old 10-19-2012, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

OP I am looking for an update as to which driver did you end up going with? Was it the TC Sounds Epic-12? Did you end up going with a sealed enclosure? What are the enclosures specs?

Yes, I went with the Epic 12" in a 3.4 cu ft sealed enclosure with the Dayton SPA500 amp. Enclosure is cubed, 20" x 20" x 20" (outside). It's cool man, it's like this big black cube that rumbles at you...it's like, Q Bert lost his black cube and it ended up in my living room.

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post #185 of 233 Old 10-20-2012, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone tell me what the "level" function is on my meter? It has settings of 30, 50, 60, 80 with the word "below" on the screen also...

When I take measurements at 30 and 50, the DBs are much lower...when I take measurements at 60 and 80, they are much higher...

Which one to use when? I have an Intell Instruments Smart Sensor Digital Sound Level Meter AR824.

Also, since I have moved my sub and plugged it into my Monster HTS-2000 the ground loop hum has ceased. However, I still received my isolator via the mail yesterday. Would there be any benefit to installing it even though my problem has disappeared?

Just measured a 20hz-250hz sine wave at close to reference level. Hit 127db in the 50-60hz range at the speaker using c weighted slow level 60 under. Also hit 118db at 18hz after taking sub level on receiver down to -9db and upping the gain on the sub.

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post #186 of 233 Old 10-20-2012, 02:55 PM
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great to hear that you are set up and getting some good results.

many measurement devices are designed to be used in a range. the level is to set roughly what you expect to measure. the fact that you get different readings depending on the level that you choose on the meter is odd.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #187 of 233 Old 10-20-2012, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, I just got 133db at 50hz at the speaker...is that possible or too high?

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post #188 of 233 Old 10-20-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfrey0118 View Post

Yeah, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, I just got 133db at 50hz at the speaker...is that possible or too high?
At the speaker, possible. At 1 meter not so much.
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It has settings of 30, 50, 60, 80
Most meters won't read below 50dB, as that's about as low as you can get before ambient noise corrupts the measurement.

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post #189 of 233 Old 10-23-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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OK I've run this baby through some rigors...

I'm very impressed with this sub. Silky smooth bass, very accurate, never too far behind or off key. Major excursion, this thing does move some air.
It rocks, too. I can hear it from the street at Reference level. I call it the Little Sub That Could because man, everytime I think the room is going to completely swallow my one 12" up, it says "I think I can, I think I can!", lol...

Definitely a major upgrade from what I had. Right now I'm listening to dubstep at -10db and my ears are vibrating sitting 30' away.

This is probably the best 12" sub out there for less than $200, IMO. The Dayton amp works perfectly, also. Really pushes this Epic.

At first, I heard nothing but rattling and distortion <20hz...now I'm getting over 100db easy at 18...

At first, the sub would bottom out and distort when pushed too hard...now after the suspension has broken in a bit, it just stops getting louder and bows out gracefully. This thing is really stiff and needs a healthy break-in period. And yes, you 'holics were right, this sub is a little too small for the airspace I have to deal with...but this thing rocks and I'm impressed as hell with just how well one little 12" is handling it. Of course, regular people hear it and think it's super loud and they think I'm crazy to want more. but we know better, don't we?

I can't wait for my miniDSP, going to order one next week.

Prometheus' DTS MASTER HD 7.1 track sounded fantastic.

This thing has been a smashing success for me. I got my feet wet, and I know I can do it now. So now I have the confidence to continue and try something more challenging.

So master future plan is this is perfect for the bedroom and I'm gonna build a box for the Axis 15" for the LR in a few months...biggrin.gif
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post #190 of 233 Old 10-24-2012, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey I have a question...

I just replaced all the screws that came with the Epic with 1/4" hex head bolts and t nuts...wow...no such thing as stripping out, now!

I'm worried about overtightening, though...I figured I'd just hand tighten every bolt as far as I could...and it worked...all of them tightened down reeeallly tight..but then I put everything back together and I noticed now I have bulges in the speaker frame where the bolts go through..I think I tightened so hard I warped the metal frame itself...is that possible and can I damage the speaker or cause loss of seal? Should I back them out until the bulge goes down or is it ok to leave them?

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post #191 of 233 Old 10-24-2012, 04:55 PM
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well I would say they should NOT be that tight.. I would back thme off a bit and tighten enough as to not cause any vibrations on the frame to the Cabinet..I know with my HSU sub I have them barely hand tight probally not many inch pounds..

I wish I could be more precise like so many inch or foot pounds but all I knoiw I tighten them to they touch then just a little bit more of a turn just to make them Snug..

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post #192 of 233 Old 10-24-2012, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

well I would say they should NOT be that tight.. I would back thme off a bit and tighten enough as to not cause any vibrations on the frame to the Cabinet..I know with my HSU sub I have them barely hand tight probally not many inch pounds..

I wish I could be more precise like so many inch or foot pounds but all I knoiw I tighten them to they touch then just a little bit more of a turn just to make them Snug..

Crap, I made them as tight as I could and I'm pretty strong... frown.gif

Did I just mess my sub up?

I backed one off and the bulge didn't go down so whatever I did it's permanent...ok, I just backed them all off.

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post #193 of 233 Old 10-24-2012, 05:24 PM
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well looks like you bent the frame wink.gif but it should not effect the Sub. try tightening them up to make it so the Sub is not making any buzzes or vibrates annoyingly?? but dont overtighten

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post #194 of 233 Old 10-24-2012, 05:37 PM
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If you strip a Tnut itll be PITA, they just need to be tight enough to seal the cab. Your spreading the load over 8-10 screws they dont need to be hella tight.

If you bent the frame a lot make sure its still sealed and if your worried add another layer of woofer gasket or thicker gasket.

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post #195 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

If you strip a Tnut itll be PITA, they just need to be tight enough to seal the cab. Your spreading the load over 8-10 screws they dont need to be hella tight.

If you bent the frame a lot make sure its still sealed and if your worried add another layer of woofer gasket or thicker gasket.

Yeah, this is just a case of my inexperience...I'm thinking sealed enclosure needs to be airtight, so tighten all screws till my elbows burn, lol...

OK so here's the development....heard that damn farting noise on 20hz sine wave came out of nowhere...found that when I tighened all the way one of the bolts on the bottom, the noise got worse, when I backed it off about half a turn or so it went down and backed it off some more and it went away...also heard some kind of slight metallic tapping sound from the center of the cone, but as I moved up to reference level it went away...

What does it all mean? I'm still in my 45 day no hassle return window so I was thinking of playing it safe, chalk it up to "lesson learned" and getting a new Epic...or maybe a Dayton HO...which is better (read an interesting thread about them HERE)?

Like my wife said, why keep it and be paranoid when I worked so hard to make this work, just better be safe than sorry and return it..? But it still sounds good, just hit 127db at the speaker @ 20hz...biggrin.gif

What to do? I don't want to lose my bass for a week!

EDIT: Just took some measurements...all sine waves at speaker:

18hz: 120db
20hz: 125db
30hz: 127db
35hz:129db
50hz: 131db

Would any of these be different if my speaker was damaged or their was too much air leakage?

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post #196 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Just for fun, how hard would it be to turn my 12" box into a 15? Could I do it by hand with a router without tearing the box apart? How to center the hole and get measurement lines proper?

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post #197 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 10:24 AM
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I think you are being paranoid and your driver is fine. The slight bend in the mounting circle of the frame isn't going to pull the coil out of alignment in the gap or anything. Opening the hole up to 14" is difficult. You need to attach a sacrificial board inside the box or temporarily attach a sheet of 1/4" ply to the outside of the box so that you have a center for the router circle jig. Also, you would be better off w/ 2 12's in opposite corners of the room than 1 15 in a box that is not optimal for that driver.
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post #198 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

I think you are being paranoid and your driver is fine. The slight bend in the mounting circle of the frame isn't going to pull the coil out of alignment in the gap or anything. Opening the hole up to 14" is difficult. You need to attach a sacrificial board inside the box or temporarily attach a sheet of 1/4" ply to the outside of the box so that you have a center for the router circle jig. Also, you would be better off w/ 2 12's in opposite corners of the room than 1 15 in a box that is not optimal for that driver.
Actually I could cut a hole in some scrapand just use it as an outline, right? But I agree, its better for a 12.
Still I am paranoid, I think ill audition the Dayton HO 12 too while I'm still in my return window...

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post #199 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 11:19 AM
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Didn't you go with the TC Epic? That driver will clobber a Dayton HO. I don't know why you are second guessing that driver. If it's not enough then you need to add a second one. And with output like this it doesn't look like it's doing too shabby:
18hz: 120db
20hz: 125db
30hz: 127db
35hz:129db
50hz: 131db


Also the 45 day return window is for items in new condition:

"Restocking fees (up to 30%) or denied returns may apply when conditions are not met."
Non-returnable Products
"Products with visible signs of use such as mounting marks*, scratches..."
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post #200 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 12:09 PM
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Just a guess, but I'd say 'more power to the Epic'... the OP should swap out the Dayton amp for something more powerful, I bet that driver isn't getting enough juice. If a second sub is an inevitability, a 2-channel pro amp (hello iNuke 6000DSP) would be the right choice. As for the driver... I think very early on the notion that one 12" would be enough once the OP caught the bass bug seemed unrealistic to those members who've already been through this process.

Still I think the OP made a good choice with the Epic, assuming they are willing to follow through with the plan to add another.
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Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

Didn't you go with the TC Epic? That driver will clobber a Dayton HO. I don't know why you are second guessing that driver. If it's not enough then you need to add a second one. And with output like this it doesn't look like it's doing too shabby:
18hz: 120db
20hz: 125db
30hz: 127db
35hz:129db
50hz: 131db
Also the 45 day return window is for items in new condition:
"Restocking fees (up to 30%) or denied returns may apply when conditions are not met."
Non-returnable Products
"Products with visible signs of use such as mounting marks*, scratches..."

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post #201 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 12:59 PM
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Read through this:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434409/what-are-the-advantages-of-stereo-subs

Especially the post by arnyk with all the charts and you will see why 2 12's would be better than trying to squeeze a 15 into that box.
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post #202 of 233 Old 10-25-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Just a guess, but I'd say 'more power to the Epic'... the OP should swap out the Dayton amp for something more powerful, I bet that driver isn't getting enough juice. If a second sub is an inevitability, a 2-channel pro amp (hello iNuke 6000DSP) would be the right choice. As for the driver... I think very early on the notion that one 12" would be enough once the OP caught the bass bug seemed unrealistic to those members who've already been through this process.

Still I think the OP made a good choice with the Epic, assuming they are willing to follow through with the plan to add another.
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Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

Didn't you go with the TC Epic? That driver will clobber a Dayton HO. I don't know why you are second guessing that driver. If it's not enough then you need to add a second one. And with output like this it doesn't look like it's doing too shabby:
18hz: 120db
20hz: 125db
30hz: 127db
35hz:129db
50hz: 131db
Also the 45 day return window is for items in new condition:
"Restocking fees (up to 30%) or denied returns may apply when conditions are not met."
Non-returnable Products
"Products with visible signs of use such as mounting marks*, scratches..."
Ok so if I decide to go with the iNuke 3000DSP, what's the best way to plug the hole in my box? Just cut a piece of MDF with like a 1" overlap all the way around and silicon it in?
And just so you know I'm not one of those shady return types who buys things just to try them out, I was just curious what another driver would sound like in my box.

Do you guys with more experience think there would be a noticeable (i.e. justifiable) improvement in performance with the iNuke?

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post #203 of 233 Old 10-26-2012, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

Read through this:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434409/what-are-the-advantages-of-stereo-subs

Especially the post by arnyk with all the charts and you will see why 2 12's would be better than trying to squeeze a 15 into that box.

Agreed...and don't get me wrong guys, I'm not Mr OCD or anything...I just get freaked out when stuff goes wrong on something I worked hard at and consider to be complicated, you know?

I was listening to my sub last night on a bass channel and just enjoying the riffs and rolls...this really is an impressive driver and I guess it's not damaged to the point where SQ suffers...I love SPL as much as the next man, but for home theater, for me at least, SQ is king.

Those Dayton HOs intrigue me though...5 year warranty (TC only offers one year). I may use one Dayton 12 for the bedroom...

But, yeah I can definitely see how two of these would fill my room pretty darn well. This one already does an admirable job.

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post #204 of 233 Old 10-26-2012, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the amp issue is moot now...PE.com just put the Dayton SPA1000 up for sale for the exact same price as I paid for the SPA500...so even if Dayton's RMS is below stated specs, the 1000 should offer just the right amount of headroom (figure, what, 700-750W rms maybe?) for the Epic...

So I get twice the amp for the same price. And yes, the SPA500 is free from damage due to use so I can return it with a clean conscience...smile.gif
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post #205 of 233 Old 10-26-2012, 10:53 AM
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Yeah, since you already have the hole in the box you will probably be happier with the spa1000.
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post #206 of 233 Old 10-26-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

Yeah, since you already have the hole in the box you will probably be happier with the spa1000.
My thoughts exactly. It will be interesting to see what kind of readings I get with the more powerful amp.

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post #207 of 233 Old 10-26-2012, 12:41 PM
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Well, should be about 3db.
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post #208 of 233 Old 10-27-2012, 06:28 AM
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I think you are about go on a music re-listening adventure! Definitely get the 1000 and rock out. I've come to appreciate moderate volume, perfectly flat EQ'd listening. Often music has transient peaks that take advantage of the headroom, those moments really stand out and everything just sounds perfect. I think the amp will be enough to get you there.
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My thoughts exactly. It will be interesting to see what kind of readings I get with the more powerful amp.

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post #209 of 233 Old 10-27-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I think you are about go on a music re-listening adventure! Definitely get the 1000 and rock out. I've come to appreciate moderate volume, perfectly flat EQ'd listening. Often music has transient peaks that take advantage of the headroom, those moments really stand out and everything just sounds perfect. I think the amp will be enough to get you there.

Sweet.

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post #210 of 233 Old 10-31-2012, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone comment on this:

 

 

 

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In my opinion, unless they're incredibly robust and over sized, I'd never feed an amplifier through a power conditioner/surge protector. They don't need them, and they can do harm in dynamics limiting via voltage drop/current limiting. YMMV

 

I thought it was always prudent to have your higher end electronics hooked up to a PC/SP..?


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