Modeling help please. SP4 18" and SSD 18" - AVS Forum
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I am in the planning phases of adding some low end to my existing HT. I have tried to work with WinISD but have never been successful. I am very interested in building a single dual opposed build using one of these drivers. I know they are different but am curious how this translates into a model with different power. If anyone would be willing to help me, I would be grateful.

A little background:
My current equipment;
Yamaha RX-V2400, PS3 for BR playback, Direct TV HD/DVR
(L&R) Cerwin Vega VS120 (C) Boston CR85 (Rear L&R) JBL8330 guts in cabs I built, (Sub) 1-Dayton Audio Titanic 15" kit with the provided 1K plate amp.

My Cerwin's I bought new in 94' when I graduated HS. I have 5 Boston CR85's I bought in 02' and all but the one I use for my center are in my closet. Since adding the 8330's I realized how inefficient they were. I also think they lack some level of dynamics, thus I went to the CV VS120's to help with my front stage. It is better, but I am killing the center trying to keep up. My long term plan is to replace the L,C,R's with either 4pi or a SEOS variant. I am waiting specifically for the SEOS 12 or 15 to be mated with the JBL 2226H before making that decision. So I decided to work on what I can until then.

Which brings me to my above call for help and potential ideas for my build. The SSD's have been used as a go to budget HT driver for a while and are readily available. I could potentially power 4 drivers in this case instead of only 2 of the SP4's. My ultimate goal here is to end up with a pair of dual opposed 18"s. The initial build will be for a single dual opposed cab as that is all I can justify at the moment.

I didn't want to make any decisions about amps as I was still unsure about which drivers and what potential each driver had given its potential to handle power and how they perform with that power. I will entertain any suggestions with regards to power. I do not have any current plans to run a dedicated line to the living room for this sole purpose, but I am not opposed to it as a future upgrade. My initial choice was the tried and true EP4K for cost/watt value and seemingly great reliability. I planned one per pair of drivers. I do want a built in crossover of some kind as I won't be able to get a DSP yet. That is in the final plan as well.

I am keeping a close eye on NUBE's dual opposed SSD 15" build thread as this is my inspiration. I am not opposed to doing 15"s instead of 18"s, but I am trying to get the most cone area I can within the cabs footprint. If 15"s make more sense, then I can go that route as well.

Here are the published specs for each driver"

SP4 18" http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp418/
DUAL 1 | DUAL 2

Fs: 24.7 Hz | 24.9 Hz
Re: 0.65 Ohms/coil | 1.27 Ohms/coil
Qms: 7.45 | 7.38
Qes: .60 | .59
Qts: .55 | .55
Mms: 555g | 544g
Cms: 0.74mm/N | 0.74mm/N
Sd: 1210cm^2 | 1210cm^2
Vas: 153.7 l | 153.7 l
Spl: 87.8dB 1W/1m | 87.9dB 1W/1m
Bl: 13.7 N/A | 19.1 N/A
Xmax: 33mm | 33mm
Rms: 2500W | 2500W
Sealed box: 4-6 cuft | 4-6 cuft
Ported box: 6-8cuft | 6-8cuft
Sub OD: 18.500” | 18.500”
Cut ID: 16.750” | 16.750”
Mounting depth:11.750” | 11.750”
Displacement: 0.26cuft | 0.26cuft

SSD 18" http://store.ficaraudio.com/ssd18/
DUAL 1 | DUAL 2

Fs: 27.6 Hz | 27.6 Hz
Re: 0.7 Ohms/coil | 1.4 Ohms/coil
Qms: 9.56 | 9.56
Qes: .47 | .47
Qts: .45 | .45
Mms:338g | 338g
Cms: 0.098mm/N | 0.098mm/N
Sd: 1210cm^2 | 1210cm^2
Vas: 201.4 l | 201.4 l
Spl: 91.4dB 1W/1m | 91.4dB 1W/1m
Bl: 13.1 N/A | 18.7 N/A
Xmax: 20mm
Rms: 1000W
Sealed box: 3.5-5 cuft
Ported box: 6-10 cuft @ 33Hz
Sub OD: 18.500”
Cut ID: 16.750”
Mounting depth: 9.500”
Displacement: 0.22cuft

Here is an older picture of my room (pre toddler) It looks the same now except the floor is covered with toys:

DSC02695-1.jpg

I have divided the room into three areas. The main square is the room less the spaces on either side of the fire place. This is 12' 6"x 16' (200sqft). The spaces to either side of the fire place are 4' 3"x 3' 6" (29.2sqft/2). So just shy of 230sqft of total floor space. The build ins will almost fill the floor space on the sides of the fireplace. 23.5" deep and the full 4' 3" wide. The room is open to the dining room in the rear (107.7sqft) and the foyer (61.5sqft). the foyer is open to the hall that runs the length of the house and both connect to the kitchen. I would call it an open floor plan. So I know I have my work cut out for me as there is a lot of area to steal my SPL.

The ceiling is vaulted in the center and the low side, where the tv and opposite side where the couch sits are 8' 6" and the center is 11" 1" at the center peak.

If there is any other information that would be helpful please let me know. Thank you for taking a look and I look forward to everyone's input.

Chris
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the SSD 15" and SP4 15" if someone is feeling froggy.

SSD 15" http://store.ficaraudio.com/ssd15/
DUAL 1 | DUAL 2

Fs: 29.6 Hz | 29.6 Hz
Re: 0.7 Ohms/coil | 1.4 Ohms/coil
Qms: 8.73 | 8.73
Qes: .43 | .43
Qts: .41 | .41
Mms: 288g | 288g
Cms: 0.10mm/N | 0.10mm/N
Sd: 810cm^2 | 810cm^2
Vas: 93.0 l | 93.0 l
Spl: 89.3dB 1W/1m | 89.3dB 1W/1m
Bl: 13.1 N/A | 18.7 N/A
Xmax: 20mm
Rms: 1000W
Sealed box: 1.5-2.5 cuft
Ported box: 3-4 cuft @ 33Hz
Sub OD: 15.625”
Cut ID: 14.125”
Mounting depth: 8.000”
Displacement: 0.17cuft

SP4 15" http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp415/
DUAL 1 | DUAL 2

Fs: 27.6 Hz | 27.9 Hz
Re: 0.65 Ohms/coil | 1.27 Ohms/coil
Qms: 6.56 | 6.45
Qes: .52 | .52
Qts: .48 | .48
Mms: 434g | 424g
Cms: 0.77mm/N | 0.77mm/N
Sd: 810cm^2 | 810cm^2
Vas: 70.4 l | 70.4 l
Spl: 86.4dB 1W/1m | 86.5dB 1W/1m
Bl: 13.7 N/A | 19.1 N/A
Xmax: 33mm | 33mm
Rms: 2500W | 2500W
Sealed box: 2-3.5cuft | 2-3.5 cuft
Ported box: 3-5cuft | 3-5cuft
Sub OD: 15.625” | 15.625”
Cut ID: 14.125” | 14.125”
Mounting depth: 11.250” | 11.250”
Displacement: 0.21cuft | 0.21cuft
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:54 PM
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if you are having trouble entering drivers into winisd, this is what i do:

make sure all fields are clear, then
enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material

there are other ways to enter data conflict free, but the above method works.

since you have been around a while, learning the technique will serve you better than having a particular model posted.

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Old 09-25-2012, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

if you are having trouble entering drivers into winisd, this is what i do:
make sure all fields are clear, then
enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material
there are other ways to enter data conflict free, but the above method works.
since you have been around a while, learning the technique will serve you better than having a particular model posted.

I totally agree with you, I do need to learn the program. I have used the method above but stop as there is no place to enter mms. I will detail what I do so you can help me correct my errors.

Open WinISD beta v0.44. The program opens and there is a single Plot Window open in the center. Select (New) from the main menu bar. Check Own Drivers and select (New). This opens the Driver Editor window. In this window I can name the driver and enter specifications. The available boxes are as follows; Qts, Vas, Fs, Re, Le, Xmax, Z, Qms, Qes, SPL, Pe, BL, dia, and finally Sd. I have entered the Qes and hit tab then selected Qms and hit tab several times but Qts is not calculated. There is also no place to enter mms. I feel as if I am missing something earlier in the process. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:14 PM
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In the WinISD help section they detail the suggested procedure for entering parameters.

I just went ahead and copied this for you from the help section:


The suggested procedure for entering driver parameters is following (check first that "Auto calculate unknowns" option is checked):

1. Enter Mms and Cms

This gives fs. If either is not available, then enter fs and other parameter.

2. Enter Sd, Bl and Re

Now, you should get all but Qms (and Qts), Vas. Please note that Vas may not match exactly what is specified by manufacturer, because exact value of Vas depends on environmental parameters. See FAQ.

3. Enter Rms or Qms.

Either one will do, although I tend to prefer Qms over Rms, because it can usually be measured in driver measurement procedures.

4. Enter Hc, Hg and Pe.

If Hc or Hg or either is available, then enter Xmax and optionally either Hc or Hg if available.

5. Enter number of voicecoils.

This procedure is most accurate. Also note that it also calculates true SPL (1W/1m) value. So it might not match the marketing SPL value, which is generally somewhat vague. Not in all cases, though.

6. Correct Znom, if necessary.

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Old 09-25-2012, 10:21 PM
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I don't have the time tonight to model anything for you but a quick thought is I would do 4 SSD over 2 SP4's for about the same price. I think you mentioned you could only do 1 dual opposed box at this time but best to get the drivers for the second and store them to make sure they are available once your ready for the second sub. In this economy there is no guarantee that any sub company will be around in 6 months to a year.

I can model up something for you tomorrow night though.

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Old 09-25-2012, 10:28 PM
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ah! we seem to be using two different versions of winisd.

i'm pretty sure, this is what i am using (winisd pro alpha 0.50a7): http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro

i downloaded and installed it years ago, so i'm not sure if there have been any upgrades.

for what it is, it is an incredible tool. thanks juha hartikainen and team!

once you get a hang of it, a new driver can be entered in about 15 seconds or so. then you can play with all kinds of different models in order to see what works best for your application.

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Old 09-26-2012, 02:11 AM
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I can model either of these... I'm not sure what the question is though. confused.gif

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Old 09-26-2012, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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mjaudio, John, and Scott, thank you for going through this with me. I just down loaded the pro alpha version linked above by John I am hoping when I get a free minute to experiment with it the mms box is available. mjaudio, which version do you have as I will be trying your steps. The Help menu in the 0.44 beta version I have does not do anything but direct me to a link that is broken. Keeping my fingers crossed and I will keep you posted.

Chris
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

mjaudio, John, and Scott, thank you for going through this with me. I just down loaded the pro alpha version linked above by John I am hoping when I get a free minute to experiment with it the mms box is available. mjaudio, which version do you have as I will be trying your steps. The Help menu in the 0.44 beta version I have does not do anything but direct me to a link that is broken. Keeping my fingers crossed and I will keep you posted.
Chris

I struggled with Win for a while too before I realized you can download the driver files at hometheatershack Play around with some of the driver files on HTS to better orient yourself with WinISD. For my money I would go with the 4 SSD's
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:27 AM
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I used to be able to use this fine back in my car audio days, but I also can't get any rational results from the current WinISD 0.50a7.

If I use LTD's method on the specs for the SSD you quoted, filtor, for instance, I get an error box with no help. If I use the method outlined in Help that mjaudio copied, I get completely irrational box suggestions (such as 0.026ft^3 recommended box size, etc.), even after converting cm^2 to in^2, and mm to inches.

Downloading pre-made files is good advise, but, for instance, the files for my SSD-15 D1 create, again, wacky results. For instance, it claims a dual sealed box wants 47ft^3 with the params from the downloaded HTS file. Plus, when looking at lots of the params when opening a new project, they're significantly different from what's listed on the FiCar website.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, my son decided to take a nap and I took a shot at this version. It is much easier to use. One issue is during installation I selected to use cf instead of L and all of the specs are given as the latter. Is there a way to change this or should I uninstall and reinstall the .exe?

Edit: I uninstalled and re-installed the program. I am able to enter all the data but keep getting errors using both methods during entry. I am going to start from the begging again with each.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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mjaudio, I went through again using your step by step. I find the results a little confusing. I entered all the values for the SP4 18 in the order you posted. The program gives me and Fs of 947.35Hz and a Qes of 9.398. I know I am missing something.

John, when I use your method I get a Parameter error list telling me there is a consistency check on the following parameter group failed. Qms, Fs, Cms, Rms etc. The Fs I get here is 250.84Hz.

I am determined to get through this though.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgse3 View Post

I struggled with Win for a while too before I realized you can download the driver files at hometheatershack Play around with some of the driver files on HTS to better orient yourself with WinISD. For my money I would go with the 4 SSD's

I was leaning toward the SSD's as well but wanted to not limit myself and look at another option that "could" have the potential for even more output. I appreciate your input.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

I used to be able to use this fine back in my car audio days, but I also can't get any rational results from the current WinISD 0.50a7.
If I use LTD's method on the specs for the SSD you quoted, filtor, for instance, I get an error box with no help. If I use the method outlined in Help that mjaudio copied, I get completely irrational box suggestions (such as 0.026ft^3 recommended box size, etc.), even after converting cm^2 to in^2, and mm to inches.
Downloading pre-made files is good advise, but, for instance, the files for my SSD-15 D1 create, again, wacky results. For instance, it claims a dual sealed box wants 47ft^3 with the params from the downloaded HTS file. Plus, when looking at lots of the params when opening a new project, they're significantly different from what's listed on the FiCar website.

I just keep trying them with the assumption I am missing something. I also see significant variance between the published specs with respect to both drivers when compared to the Fi web site.

When I click the (help) button, I get a message telling me that the help file is not installed on my computer. I am determined to not let this program whip me. smile.gif

Edit: I am glad I copied the driver information here, the Fi site is currently down.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2010/06/winisd-entering-new-driver-data.html

This guy makes it look so simple. Going to give this one a shot.

Update: I followed the instructions in the video and was able to successfully create the file without errors. Awesome! Now after selecting the driver in the New Project window, selecting Closed, now I am unsure about the available alignment. Ei: 0.707 Max flat amplitude response, or any of the other selections. I am going to try and run with that for the time being.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:06 AM
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Fi specs have always been a little off when adding to WinISD, I had to follow a different way to add in the SP4, I added mms but skipped cms and added FS instead then the rest of the instructions and it came out fine.

The SP4 will take more power but with the same power the SSD 15's have a mid-bass advantage from about 35hz on up, the SP4 has a small 1db advantage below that which is basically nothing. I am really pressed for time again today but here is a screen capture with both dual sub getting 2250 watts, the SSD dual 15" in a 4.25cuft box and the dual SP4 in a 5.7cuft box.

SP4 is the BLUE line, SSD is the RED line


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Old 09-26-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

mjaudio, John, and Scott, thank you for going through this with me. I just down loaded the pro alpha version linked above by John I am hoping when I get a free minute to experiment with it the mms box is available. mjaudio, which version do you have as I will be trying your steps. The Help menu in the 0.44 beta version I have does not do anything but direct me to a link that is broken. Keeping my fingers crossed and I will keep you posted.
Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgse3 View Post

I struggled with Win for a while too before I realized you can download the driver files at hometheatershack Play around with some of the driver files on HTS to better orient yourself with WinISD. For my money I would go with the 4 SSD's

Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

I used to be able to use this fine back in my car audio days, but I also can't get any rational results from the current WinISD 0.50a7.
If I use LTD's method on the specs for the SSD you quoted, filtor, for instance, I get an error box with no help. If I use the method outlined in Help that mjaudio copied, I get completely irrational box suggestions (such as 0.026ft^3 recommended box size, etc.), even after converting cm^2 to in^2, and mm to inches.
Downloading pre-made files is good advise, but, for instance, the files for my SSD-15 D1 create, again, wacky results. For instance, it claims a dual sealed box wants 47ft^3 with the params from the downloaded HTS file. Plus, when looking at lots of the params when opening a new project, they're significantly different from what's listed on the FiCar website.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

I just keep trying them with the assumption I am missing something. I also see significant variance between the published specs with respect to both drivers when compared to the Fi web site.
When I click the (help) button, I get a message telling me that the help file is not installed on my computer. I am determined to not let this program whip me. smile.gif
Edit: I am glad I copied the driver information here, the Fi site is currently down.

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Old 09-26-2012, 11:29 AM
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Actual SSD 18D2 in a roughly 4 cube sealed box is shown compared with the simulation of it using the Inductance and not using the inductance factored in. It's a rather dramatic difference. A LOT of drivers behave this way BTW.


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Old 09-26-2012, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Fi specs have always been a little off when adding to WinISD, I had to follow a different way to add in the SP4, I added mms but skipped cms and added FS instead then the rest of the instructions and it came out fine.
The SP4 will take more power but with the same power the SSD 15's have a mid-bass advantage from about 35hz on up, the SP4 has a small 1db advantage below that which is basically nothing. I am really pressed for time again today but here is a screen capture with both dual sub getting 2250 watts, the SSD dual 15" in a 4.25cuft box and the dual SP4 in a 5.7cuft box.
SP4 is the BLUE line, SSD is the RED line

Your post along with me toying with the version of WinISD that I have both lead me to the impression the SSD is the better suited driver for what I am looking for. Is the version you are using something you paid for? I am curious as it appears very different. I will be able to focus on modeling a little more tonight when my wife can take over duties with my son.

It seemed to me as I was adjusting the box and power that I would need a huge box 10cf or larger and massive power 3K or more for the pair of SP4's and would never even come close to running into cone excursion issues. I think this route would also involve some electrical upgrades to the room.

I think this has solved the issue as to which driver I will choose. Next I will try and see what the differences would be by stepping up to the SSD 18" and if it will be worth the additional cabinet size. I can guarantee the wife will be much more likely to accept the smaller version. With driver displacement at .17 and .22 respectively, It looks like a 31"x18"x18' will yield 4.648cf and 4.308cf after 2x.17cf driver displacement with the 15". 32"x20"x20" would yield 6.041cf and 5.601cf after 2x.22cf driver displacement. After laying it out on the floor, I think 20"x20" would be the biggest foot print I would want to do. I have a good bit of wiggle room with height. I will need to figure out how to "tune" the end caps. I don't even know where to start. there though.

So the next logical step for me is to solve the 15" or 18" issue as I think both are doable with respect to cabinet size. I have a giant cardboard box I can use to mock this up tonight. Any suggestions as to optimal enclosure size or any adjustments are very welcome. I guess we can estimate the additional height the spacing and end caps will require as well.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Actual SSD 18D2 in a roughly 4 cube sealed box is shown compared with the simulation of it using the Inductance and not using the inductance factored in. It's a rather dramatic difference. A LOT of drivers behave this way BTW.

Forgive my ignorance, when taking actual inductance into consideration in modeling, what impact will this have outside of actual power the driver sees.



Scott, I chose Fi for several reasons. Mainly cost/performance and availability.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I can model either of these... I'm not sure what the question is though. confused.gif

I seemed to have skipped right over this post. Sorry about that Scott. I wanted to see if someone would help model the two drivers and try to optimize things for my environment. In the process I have figured out how to input drivers into WinISD and not get errors. Optimization I think will come after the other details are sorted.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Actual SSD 18D2 in a roughly 4 cube sealed box is shown compared with the simulation of it using the Inductance and not using the inductance factored in. It's a rather dramatic difference. A LOT of drivers behave this way BTW.

Good point on the Inductance but I could not find it listed anywhere for the 15" Fi subs. I checked data-bass but only the 18" inductance is listed.

Have you ever had a chance to play around with the Fi SP4 subs? Which would you recommend the OP use?

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:15 PM
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Your post along with me toying with the version of WinISD that I have both lead me to the impression the SSD is the better suited driver for what I am looking for. Is the version you are using something you paid for? I am curious as it appears very different. I will be able to focus on modeling a little more tonight when my wife can take over duties with my son.
It seemed to me as I was adjusting the box and power that I would need a huge box 10cf or larger and massive power 3K or more for the pair of SP4's and would never even come close to running into cone excursion issues. I think this route would also involve some electrical upgrades to the room.
I think this has solved the issue as to which driver I will choose. Next I will try and see what the differences would be by stepping up to the SSD 18" and if it will be worth the additional cabinet size. I can guarantee the wife will be much more likely to accept the smaller version. With driver displacement at .17 and .22 respectively, It looks like a 31"x18"x18' will yield 4.648cf and 4.308cf after 2x.17cf driver displacement with the 15". 32"x20"x20" would yield 6.041cf and 5.601cf after 2x.22cf driver displacement. After laying it out on the floor, I think 20"x20" would be the biggest foot print I would want to do. I have a good bit of wiggle room with height. I will need to figure out how to "tune" the end caps. I don't even know where to start. there though.
So the next logical step for me is to solve the 15" or 18" issue as I think both are doable with respect to cabinet size. I have a giant cardboard box I can use to mock this up tonight. Any suggestions as to optimal enclosure size or any adjustments are very welcome. I guess we can estimate the additional height the spacing and end caps will require as well.

I got this version of WinISD here: http://www.linearteam.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21&p=83 I use the older version at home which in a lot of ways I prefer but version 0.7 is OK as well.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:25 PM
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nube, i suspect that you aren't entering values using the correct units. that can cause the errors that you are describing.

in the version that i have, clicking on the units will change them, such as changing liters to cubic feet.

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Old 09-27-2012, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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We are back to the drawing table and exploring some other option at this point. If anything this thread taught me how to properly enter data in WinISD and is going to help me with the final decision.

I went through the DIY Gallery sticky and another viable option is 4-15/18"s under the tv. WE would need to find a spot for the buffet that is there now, but she saw http://www.avsforum.com/t/646455/diy-gallery/780 (post 809).
We could easily do 4 ported 18"s in this area. Another option is using half of the bottom build ins on either side of the fireplace. There is a little over 19cf on each side so half would be around 9.5cf and port it out the bottom where the kick panel would be. We can't make up our mind anymore. tongue.gif

I am afraid of having all those frequencies coming from the left side. Any input on this fear? Is there something I should be afraid of with this huge cab in one corner or all the low end coming from the left side?

I could use just the front left and use the entire 19cf and use the left side of the build ins for storage. Sorry for rambling. She is giving me too much freedom here.

Chris
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Outside of the prev posted question, I would like to get opinions on the iNuke6000DSP. If you think I should start a thread for potential amps I will do so.

Thanks,Chris
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

Forgive my ignorance, when taking actual inductance into consideration in modeling, what impact will this have outside of actual power the driver sees.

It will affect current and power to the driver, response shape, maximum output, sensitivity, efficiency, excursion,etc.

The main reason to care is because often when someone chooses a driver they do so because they compared a couple in a modeling program and picked the one that looked best. Then they buy that driver and design a sub around it using the modeling system. The point is what if all of your modeling that you based these decisions on and your design on was way WAY off from what the actual driver behaves like? You spend all of that time and base a decision on incomplete and inaccurate information. Anyway the SSD models great but does not act anything like that winisd model. I'm not saying it is a bad driver or can't be used to good effect. Just do not choose it based on the winisd model.
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Good point on the Inductance but I could not find it listed anywhere for the 15" Fi subs. I checked data-bass but only the 18" inductance is listed.
Have you ever had a chance to play around with the Fi SP4 subs? Which would you recommend the OP use?

They don't list inductance and neither do a lot of others. So far the Q,SSD and the SSA Xcon which is built by Fi all look similar to the SSD trace above, with a big hump in response and a rolled off top end. I'd expect the SP4 to be similar or even more exaggerated. It has an even bigger coil and motor but no mention of shorting rings. This type of response makes sense for the car audio crowd. They typically HPF everything below 25Hz and above 80Hz. The way the SSD and Q series Fi drivers behave boosts the output in the 35-70Hz octave which is pretty much where the majority of their direct customer base want maximum boomy boom boom.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Ricci, thank you for your input. Do you think my best coarse of action would be to build what I am going to build and then tame with EQ afterward?

There is no inductance ring on the SP4. I agree as their main market is car audio, I think you are right about the designs being more oriented to them. I wish they would bring a competitive HT specific offering to the market that addresses these issues. I saw the SI offering in the other thread about their driver, but not enough is known about it for me to consider it.
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