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post #61 of 87 Old 10-23-2012, 12:24 PM
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if they are going behind an AT screen why bother painting them at all?

With a woven AT screen, you either need a black backing (adding a backing affects sound) or have everything behind the screen, black. Since my AT screen is fairly close to my front wall (at least in the center since curved screen) I have everything painted flat black behind the screen and the front wall is flat black. I will paint the phase plugs on the TD12M's black also.

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post #62 of 87 Old 10-23-2012, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With a woven AT screen, you either need a black backing (adding a backing affects sound) or have everything behind the screen, black. Since my AT screen is fairly close to my front wall (at least in the center since curved screen) I have everything painted flat black behind the screen and the front wall is flat black. I will paint the phase plugs on the TD12M's black also.

What AT screen do you have? I'm thinking of doing a Spandex build.
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post #63 of 87 Old 10-23-2012, 01:36 PM
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Screen Excellence EN4K.

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post #64 of 87 Old 10-24-2012, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Screen Excellence EN4K.

What's the pricing like for a ~100-110 inch EN4K? I know their production / warehouse is up in Ames which is a two hour and a bit drive from me.
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post #65 of 87 Old 10-24-2012, 10:37 AM
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I am really interested in the performance of these speakers and what they could be compared to in terms of price/performance.

I am building my theater now and have DefTec speakers that I like but stumbled on this thread as well JTR thread that has me looking around...
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post #66 of 87 Old 10-24-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

I am really interested in the performance of these speakers and what they could be compared to in terms of price/performance.
I am building my theater now and have DefTec speakers that I like but stumbled on this thread as well JTR thread that has me looking around...

I will be able to comment on how the SEOS and AEtd12x's compare to my previous JTR's once I get my build completed, but that will be at least a month, if not a little longer smile.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #67 of 87 Old 10-24-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I will be able to comment on how the SEOS and AEtd12x's compare to my previous JTR's once I get my build completed, but that will be at least a month, if not a little longer smile.gif

That would be very interesting to hear! Subscribed and looking forward to your impressions verses JTR speakers!
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post #68 of 87 Old 10-24-2012, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

What's the pricing like for a ~100-110 inch EN4K? I know their production / warehouse is up in Ames which is a two hour and a bit drive from me.

Please give me a call.

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post #69 of 87 Old 10-24-2012, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

I am really interested in the performance of these speakers and what they could be compared to in terms of price/performance.
I am building my theater now and have DefTec speakers that I like but stumbled on this thread as well JTR thread that has me looking around...

Hopefully in less than a month, I will be able to comment on how the TD12M's with SEOS-12 compares to the JTR T8's in less than a month. I may be only running phantom center still, but I should have a good idea on how they stack up. smile.gif

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post #70 of 87 Old 11-16-2012, 07:49 PM
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If waveguide speakers need to be toe'd in to create a bigger sweet spot, how big is the sweet spot and how much does the sound quality suffer as you move away from the sweet spot? Does this apply only for two channel listening our does the same apply for home theater?
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post #71 of 87 Old 11-16-2012, 11:28 PM
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"If waveguide speakers need to be toe'd in to create a bigger sweet spot, how big is the sweet spot and how much does the sound quality suffer as you move away from the sweet spot?"

large.

http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=10619

"Does this apply only for two channel listening our does the same apply for home theater?"

it works for both.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #72 of 87 Old 11-17-2012, 07:05 AM
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Also see:

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup%20of%20WG%20Speakers.pdf

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet
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post #73 of 87 Old 11-17-2012, 08:22 AM
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that is a nice write-up.

i'm going to steal it and put it in the first the first post of the 'rallying' thread.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #74 of 87 Old 11-17-2012, 09:53 AM
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Cool, thanks for all the info. At first it sounded ridiculous to toe the speakers so aggressively, to aim them in front of the listening area but after reading through both articles, it kinda' makes a lot of sense.

One other question though. It makes sense to my brain now with a stereo setup but in a three speaker setup, home theater style, you are getting indirect sound from the stereo speakers but direct from the center speaker. I know from playing guitar in bands that when I stand off to the side of my cab It sounds really different when compared to the direct sound from my cab. Does this indirect (L+R) to the direct (center channel) change the sound of the timber matched speakers?

Thanks

edit: My brain is slowly starting to understand....I think.
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post #75 of 87 Old 11-17-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

Cool, thanks for all the info. At first it sounded ridiculous to toe the speakers so aggressively, to aim them in front of the listening area but after reading through both articles, it kinda' makes a lot of sense.
One other question though. It makes sense to my brain now with a stereo setup but in a three speaker setup, home theater style, you are getting indirect sound from the stereo speakers but direct from the center speaker. I know from playing guitar in bands that when I stand off to the side of my cab It sounds really different when compared to the direct sound from my cab. Does this indirect (L+R) to the direct (center channel) change the sound of the timber matched speakers?
Thanks
edit: My brain is slowly starting to understand....I think.
That's why it is so important that these speaker designs feature "constant directivity" or "controlled directivity" for this type of arrangement to work. When you stand off to the side of a speaker like this, everything gets quieter but the relative balance across the frequency spectrum remains unchanged. In sharp contrast to your guitar cabinet, in which whatever high frequencies are there will "beam" straight out from the speaker, and fall off sharply (and irregularly) when you step off to the side.

So in the case of a center speaker as part of a controlled directivity front-end, it will sound the same as the L/R speakers even though you're hearing it straight-on and the L/R mains from an angle. All part of the design, and different from what folks are used to that are mostly familiar with instrument amps or traditional woofer-plus-dome-tweeter arrangements.
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post #76 of 87 Old 11-17-2012, 10:23 AM
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It's slowly starting to sink in, I'm finally starting to see, I mean hear...well not just yet but will soon; I think I'll be ordering these up here in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks again for helping my sloth like brain to understand.
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post #77 of 87 Old 11-17-2012, 10:35 AM
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"Cool, thanks for all the info. At first it sounded ridiculous to toe the speakers so aggressively, to aim them in front of the listening area but after reading through both articles, it kinda' makes a lot of sense."

jbl built asymmetric horns into their dd55000 everest speaker (the everest is their most expensive speaker) back in 1985 for precisely this reason. but, people buy things in large part based on looks, particularly at the very top end and people have an extremely strong preference for symmetry, so the current designs employ a symmetrical flare.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #78 of 87 Old 11-18-2012, 08:34 AM
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I think $370 for these is totally reasonable. They are very similar to the Bob Crites CS-1T's that I built and those were ~$320 a piece just for parts. No enclosure. although the crossover is done for you and is very nice.

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post #79 of 87 Old 11-18-2012, 08:45 AM
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I think $370 for these is totally reasonable. They are very similar to the Bob Crites CS-1T's that I built and those were ~$320 a piece just for parts. No enclosure. although the crossover is done for you and is very nice.


Also keep in mind that the woofer cost on this model is nearly twice as much as those. wink.gif There are models coming that don't use the neo magnet. Some will be priced extremely low, especially after you hear what you built for the price. There are also crossover boards coming for some models.


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post #80 of 87 Old 11-18-2012, 08:55 AM
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Also keep in mind that the woofer cost on this model is nearly twice as much as those. wink.gif There are models coming that don't use the neo magnet. Some will be priced extremely low, especially after you hear what you built for the price. There are also crossover boards coming for some models.

I didn't notice that its higher on the Eminence food chain. I great deal for sure! The extra cost of the Crites speakers is for the crossovers. They are $115 a piece by themselves.

Absolutely no reason not to build these IMO. Closest thing to being at all technical is the crossover but that looks pretty easy.

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post #81 of 87 Old 11-18-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I think $370 for these is totally reasonable. They are very similar to the Bob Crites CS-1T's that I built and those were ~$320 a piece just for parts. No enclosure. although the crossover is done for you and is very nice.


I am about to replace the CS-1s with the SEOS for the front stage.
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post #82 of 87 Old 12-14-2012, 03:32 PM
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Just a friendly bump to see how the builds are going. Was hoping to hear about impressions especially V JTR 8s.wink.gif
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post #83 of 87 Old 04-06-2013, 08:03 PM
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Hey dsl when are you going to give your audio impressions on these speakers compared to the statements?
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post #84 of 87 Old 04-08-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the delay guys. Took me a while to get my acoustically transparent screen setup with the speakers behind.

Current Setup:

Speakers: Left / Right / Center: SEOS12 Deltalite (Bwalso Crossover)
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3
Screen: Seymour AV Centerstage XD
Sub: Danley DTS-10
Calibration: Audyssey MultEQ

Brief Listening Impressions vs Statements:

The first thing that struck me with the SEOS horn was the crispness of the highs. Really clear sounding speakers throughout the range. The compression driver is excellent. For watching movies I certainly prefer them to the Statements and for anyone wanting speakers to use for home theatre I would certainly recommend the SEOS line. Nice spread throughout the room they sound great at multiple listening positions. They hit reference without issues and sound great loud. I'm very happy that I was able to have three matching speakers for the front stage. It was a big upgrade for the center channel for me.

For music both sound excellent. However, I'd have to give the edge to the Statements here. The Statements are known for the soundstage they create which is unlike any other speaker I've heard. For two channel listening it would be tough to beat, especially as they go low enough to not need a sub. The SEOS12's are no slouch either and I've done a bit of 2 channel listening. I'll elaborate after some more time with them.

Overall, really happy with the SEOS12's for my use and they will be fully replacing the Statements for me.
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post #85 of 87 Old 04-10-2013, 07:22 PM
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If they sound that good with a delta lite and DNA compression driver, then I'm pretty sure they will blow the statements out of the water with an Acoustic Elegance 12" driver and a Raal tweeter. I was on the verge of building the statements several times. Thank you so much for following up with your review because the one thing preventing me from building them was their sheer size. I couldn't quite (air bunnies) "squeeze the trigger." I've been looking at these flat packs for a while now. I am dead set on these bad boys. I just have to sell my Mirage OMD-28's and eD 19Ov2 subwoofer.
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post #86 of 87 Old 04-11-2013, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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If they sound that good with a delta lite and DNA compression driver, then I'm pretty sure they will blow the statements out of the water with an Acoustic Elegance 12" driver and a Raal tweeter. I was on the verge of building the statements several times. Thank you so much for following up with your review because the one thing preventing me from building them was their sheer size. I couldn't quite (air bunnies) "squeeze the trigger." I've been looking at these flat packs for a while now. I am dead set on these bad boys. I just have to sell my Mirage OMD-28's and eD 19Ov2 subwoofer.

Yea the Statements are huge because they are flat to 33hz (from memory). If I was just listening to two channel music I'd keep the Statements for sure. However, at this point I am 90% movies / tv and the SEOS fits way better. You'll love them. The build is simple with the flat packs and you get a great speaker with just a little wood glue and a few hours of work. Enjoy!
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post #87 of 87 Old 04-12-2013, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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After getting multiple PM's about this here is a more detailed response / reason for preferring the SEOS to the Statements:

I have built my fair share of speakers. In the last few years, the Audax line, Statements, Mini Statements, Wedgehorns, Amiga's, Overnight Sensations MT, Overnight Sensations MTM, the SEOS 12's with the DNA360 and Deltalite's.
In comparison the SEOS-12's with the DNA360 / Deltalites are a damn fine speaker all around. They are no slouch in any regard and they aren't even that cheap as diy goes. Looking at driver costs the SEOS with the DNA360 and Deltalite is basically the same as the Statements. A lot of people disregard pro drivers but they sound great! A lot of the cost of the Statements is in the crossover components.

For two channel listening sitting in the ideal position are the Statements better? Yes! However, when it comes to home theatre I prefer the SEOS12 for the following reasons.

Positioning: The Statements need to be at least 2 ft from the front wall. I don't have 4ft of room behind my screen.
Levels: The Statements won't do 115dB without a lot amp and even then you're pushing it. Again, not an issue for music but for movie dynamics it matters. My subs can do 130dB from 12hz to 80hz, the mains need to keep up.
Off-axis response: I'm really enjoying how the horns sound throughout the room. The Statements really had a sweet spot. It was a very sweet spot but I do care about the person sitting to my left and right.

Welcome to the world of pro drivers and waveguides.
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