SEOS12 Deltalite Erich Flatpack Kit Build - AVS Forum
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone

I've been working on Erich's latest offering of the SEOS 12 line designed by Bill Waslo with the Deltalite-12.

Kit here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/seos-speaker-kits/seos-deltalite-kit.html (SFW)

My Setup:

I am making three of them as my left, right, and center channel speakers. They will be replacing Jim Holtz Statements as my theater left / right and an old Audax center channel. They will be powered with an Emotiva XPA3. They will be cutoff at 80hz and paired with a Danley DTS-10 sub.

Unpacking:

As usual Erich packs everything absurdly well.




SEOS 12 Horns

Very well made. Nice weight to them, great finish, and super solid.




Compression Driver

Echoing the comments of others these thing are hefty! Surprisingly heavy for the size.



Flat Packs:

Well packed.





Dry Fitting:

Everything went together great dry fitting. The CNC cuts are excellent.





Assembly:

The way Erich had the kit CNC'ed this is the back piece. You simply glue everything to the already lined up back channels. It makes the build really straight forward and intuitive. You would have to try pretty hard to mess it up.



Here is with the bracing installed. The one thing to note is that the horizontal braces may not be square vertically. I used a square to make sure they were. Probably not a huge issue either way but maybe Erich can make a grove in the vertical brace as well so that the braces have to be perfectly square.





I used PL Premium and decided to put the whole rest of the box (with the exception of the front baffle) together in one go. They all went really smoothly.






Here are the three waiting for front baffles.



What's Next:

Gluing front baffles on today. Then going to sand edges perfectly smooth, paint with Duratex, and attach Speakon connectors. Waiting for the Deltalite drivers and crossover parts to come from Erich. Parts-Express hadn't given everything to him yet but he was kind enough to send the rest over my way.

Questions:

What is the recommending amount of lining / should they be stuffed with some polyfill?
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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10/2/12 Update:

Got them painted with two coats of Duratex each.

Here are all three compared to one the Statements I built.



I really love Duratex. Looks great, I think the texture is sweet, durable, and very easy to roll on once you get the hang of it.



My weekend also consisted of building a pair of each of these:

The little guy is an Overnight Sensation.

The bigger guy is an Amiga.

Background is a DTS-10 ***For Scale*** ;-)



and this Dayton 10 with a plate amp:

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Old 10-01-2012, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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10/20/12 Update:

Had a busy few weeks but found time the other day to get them done!

Speakon's Added. I decided to put them on the side so I could but the speakers right up against the wall.



Used R13 / Spray Glue to line the cabinet walls.



Compression Driver connected to the SEOS12 horn:



My very ugly crossovers. I applaud those who make beautiful crossovers and stick them inside of a box never to be seen again.



Crossovers attached inside with velcro:



Test fitting horn:



Finishing up and testing #1



#1 works, finishing up #2 and #3



All three stacked next to the Statement.



Listening impressions coming!
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:30 AM
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Wow, you work really fast, and I'm glad everything arrived in good shape. It's nice to see that the new boxes go together easy enough even without directions. But I will eventually type something up.

You mentioned having the CNC cut some dados in the side pieces to make sure the horizontal braces were square. Those were in the original design and I actually took them out for a reason. The braces don't really need to be glued in the box perfectly square anymore to still get a perfectly squared up box..

I had the grooves on the back panel cut fairly tight so the braces would stand up straight on their own and hold close at 90 degrees. After you glue the braces to the back panel, you'll see that even if they aren't exactly at 90 degrees, it won't matter and the sides will still glue on perfectly. However, if by chance someone glued the braces slightly crooked, it would be much more difficult to line them up if there were grooves in the side panel.

So the new method completely eliminates any problems with that and still gives the same exact end product. You could have those braces glued in seriously wrong and they would still line up just fine with the side panels. That's good stuff! biggrin.gif It's how the new subwoofer boxes will be. Actually, I think you might have gotten one of those as well.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:48 AM
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Looking at your pictures more, I'm curious if you glued the entire box together at one time? If so, that's pretty impressive.

I guess the PL adhesive has a much longer open time to allow for that? Whenever I glue up test boxes, I just use normal wood glue. There was a some concern that the thicker PL adhesive would fill the joints a bit more more and things might not line up as good. But it looks like that's not the case after everything gets clamped down and the glue gets squished out. Did you see any issues?


I do have all the crossover parts. Parts Express was out of the 12" Deltalites and they were suppose to be back in stock last week. When I called they said it might not be until the 12th. That wasn't good, so I actually called Eminence to see if they kept any in stock. They had 12 and let me make the unusual order for 10 of the woofers. cool.gif They'll be letting me know about shipping today. I told them if it was going to take more than a few days, I'd probably drive there to pick them up. They're about 1.5 hours away, but I made the trip once before when I helped with the MFW-15 group buy last year.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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You make it easy! In the time I assembled these I probably would have only finished cutting half the pieces. Gotcha on the braces.

I did glue it all together in one go. PL makes it pretty easy and it squishes out totally fine. I've never had issues with things not lining up because of it. It squeezes out of the joints as you apply pressure and makes a really nice seal. You do need to clamp it well but you have 15-20 minutes of play time. The other plus is that it expands and will fill any voids you do have making a completely airtight box.

Sounds good on the woofers. Thanks!
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:25 AM
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Dude. You make it look too easy.

No sawdust. No broken tools. No blood. rolleyes.gif

As far as filling, I used regular R-13 insulation. Here's my post on the pink stuff: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417294/seos12-2512-build/240#post_22341822
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

Dude. You make it look too easy.
No sawdust. No broken tools. No blood. rolleyes.gif
As far as filling, I used regular R-13 insulation. Here's my post on the pink stuff: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417294/seos12-2512-build/240#post_22341822

Don't worry, I managed bleed opening the boxes with scissors. Both build styles are certainly fun and I enjoy blasting sawdust into the air as much as anyone. However, the flat packs make you feel wickedly efficient.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:38 PM
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Very cool. I love the flat pack. Such a good idea
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

Hey everyone
I've been working on Erich's latest offering of the SEOS 12 line designed by Bill Waslo with the Deltalite-12.
Kit here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/seos-speaker-kits/seos-deltalite-kit.html (SFW)

Excellent, new kit and plenty of pictures. My kind of speaker-porn.
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Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

They will be replacing Jim Holtz Statements as my theater left / right and an old Audax center channel.

With these new speakers nearly finished, you'll be looking to get rid of those old, over-sized, obsolete speakers. I'd be happy to take them off your hands... wink.gifbiggrin.gif

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Old 10-01-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

With these new speakers nearly finished, you'll be looking to get rid of those old, over-sized, obsolete speakers. I'd be happy to take them off your hands... wink.gifbiggrin.gif

I would just be interested your impressions between the two! the statements certainly have a great reputation, but are certainly a different design style than what you are about to have. Ill be tuned in for sure smile.gif

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Old 10-01-2012, 06:05 PM
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Horse stall matting, kettlebells, atlas stones...looks like a nice S&C or Crossfit gym you have there. biggrin.gif

(Nice work on the speakers too, thanks for the detailed writeup!)
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:46 PM
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Nice work. What's the fate of the Statements?
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:20 PM
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great work and write-up dsl.

"Ill be tuned in for sure."

me too beast.

Listen. It's All Good.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I would just be interested your impressions between the two! the statements certainly have a great reputation, but are certainly a different design style than what you are about to have. Ill be tuned in for sure smile.gif

The Statements are wonderful speakers. I have only great things to say about them. Fantastic soundstage, great overall sound. I am certainly interested in the differences and will post my thoughts.


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Originally Posted by EvilYoda View Post

Horse stall matting, kettlebells, atlas stones...looks like a nice S&C or Crossfit gym you have there. biggrin.gif
(Nice work on the speakers too, thanks for the detailed writeup!)

Yes that is my gym :-)
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:59 PM
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That's awesome! I'm glad to see someone sharing two of my hobbies. Crossfit or no?
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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That's awesome! I'm glad to see someone sharing two of my hobbies. Crossfit or no?

Crossfit but unaffiliated. Currently have about a hundred members.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:41 AM
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Following with interest but am I understanding correctly that if you want the kit + enclosure you're looking at $370 apiece?

I'm sure the performance is solid but the price is getting up there in the DIY world, no?


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Old 10-02-2012, 10:13 AM
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How much is this kit and does it come with crossover already built? I love kits for DIY and the price is more than DIY because someone is doing all the labor for you. My eD kits were done exactly the same way, all I had to do was put together and glue. I also nailed the enclosure together but that was for subs. Kits are great! Erich H is doing a great thing here!

BTW, what are the specs on this speaker, like sensitivity and power handling, basically, how loud will it play and extension? I am using DR-250's which use deltalite 10's and 20 piezo tweeters in a horn design(BFM) and based on their sound this should perform very well! More expensive kits for the big rooms(needing more spl) and the cheaper kits for the smaller rooms. Awesome stuff!

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Old 10-02-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I'm sure the performance is solid but the price is getting up there in the DIY world, no?
James

It's probably more expensive than us cheapo DIY'ers are used to, but that's a cream de la cream speaker there. Performance is top tier with top notch quality drivers. I'm not sure what this would typically retail for. Hard to even find something like this in the retail world. Well over $2k for a pair though I imagine. Of course that would be finished with a warranty and you wouldn't have to lift a finger. But it's hard to say there isn't value in this kit.

Erich is working on cheaper kits too. Some of those will sneak in under or around $250/each.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:39 AM
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To give you guys an idea on retail(ID retail) eD sold a speaker like this to me finished. It had a DE-250 compression driver and 3012HO 12 inch driver which both are upgrades to this kit. The DNA-360 is supposed to be the cheaper equavilent and the deltalite 12 is a step down(from eminence). The finish was awesome and so was the cabinet. The difference was the horn and crossover so who knows if it would sound much different. The cost was $850 each so $1700 a pair.

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Old 10-02-2012, 11:40 AM
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I come up with about $310 for woofer (from Parts-Express), cd, waveguide and wood. Don"t forget about the crossover components. So $370 doesn't sound bad at all.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Following with interest but am I understanding correctly that if you want the kit + enclosure you're looking at $370 apiece?
I'm sure the performance is solid but the price is getting up there in the DIY world, no?
James

Depends what you are comparing it to. There are certainly cheaper options that are very good speakers. However, my perception of value with DIY is that as you get into the higher end you are actually saving a larger percentage of money. You can spend 50$ and build a DIY speaker that you could commercially buy for 70$ or you could spend 400$ and get something worth 1,200$. Of course there are always many other considerations + I am pulling numbers out of thin air but that's how I feel personally and where I am putting my money.

As stated below just the components would end up being really close to 370$. This doesn't count the huge expense commitment on Erich of getting the waveguide molded in plastic, shipping being included (probably another 20-30$ per speaker), and the fact that just about everything you need comes in one box already cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

How much is this kit and does it come with crossover already built? I love kits for DIY and the price is more than DIY because someone is doing all the labor for you. My eD kits were done exactly the same way, all I had to do was put together and glue. I also nailed the enclosure together but that was for subs. Kits are great! Erich H is doing a great thing here!
BTW, what are the specs on this speaker, like sensitivity and power handling, basically, how loud will it play and extension? I am using DR-250's which use deltalite 10's and 20 piezo tweeters in a horn design(BFM) and based on their sound this should perform very well! More expensive kits for the big rooms(needing more spl) and the cheaper kits for the smaller rooms. Awesome stuff!

MK: From Erich including the entire cut cabinet flatpack, waveguide, compression driver, deltalite 12, crossover components, mounting hardware, and shipping it was 370$ per speaker. From my calculations and louis below it seems essentially the cost of the components. Especially nice that everything comes together so you aren't paying for shipping for six different things.

I'm not sure on the exact specs. I'll let Erich or Bwaslo comment. It is a high sensitivity design that will need to be paired with a sub.

I haven't received my crossover components yet. I do NOT believe they are preassembled. There was some mentions of PCB boards though so I am not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by louisdamani View Post

I come up with about $310 for woofer (from Parts-Express), cd, waveguide and wood. Don"t forget about the crossover components. So $370 doesn't sound bad at all.

That includes shipping as well so overall I think it's less then buying everything on your own and you get it cut.

Louis, did you finish the ones you were building?
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:52 PM
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The only finished speaker that will even come close is the CHT SHO-10 for $400-$450. That uses 10 inch driver. Great sounding speaker! The eD speaker had more midbass punch with that 3012HO woofer compared to the 10 of the SHO-10. This kit speaker fits somewhere in between as cost of parts are concerned so the price is great!

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The only finished speaker that will even come close is the CHT SHO-10 for $400-$450. That uses 10 inch driver. Great sounding speaker! The eD speaker had more midbass punch with that 3012HO woofer compared to the 10 of the SHO-10. This kit speaker fits somewhere in between as cost of parts are concerned so the price is great!


There is a design just finished up that uses that same 10" woofer, but I think it will have a higher end compression driver similar to the DE250. I'm not sure what CD the SHO-10 uses though. Price should start about $200 less. If I recall, they will be under $250 per speaker, including the flat pack box. If you just bought the Delta-10A woofer and a DE250, you would be over $200, so you can see that there's some serious value in what's coming.


There's another even cheaper design ready to go that uses a different Eminence 10" woofer and will be around $200.......with the flat pack box.......including shipping. I've been listening to one in my living room for a while and it's very impressive for the price. If you wanted to build the box yourself, I think the parts come in less than $160 for everything, with shipping. Extremely tough to beat for their performance.

Obviously there are other 12" models coming too. Jeff Bagby is currently working on one of them.


Things are going to be getting crazy for the DIY guys. biggrin.gif
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:30 PM
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I think the price is great as well especially for people who don't have all the tools to make cut the wood themselves. I actually have all the tools but will be buying the kits from Erich since I don't happen to own a CNC and doing these cuts without one is tricky and time consuming. In time saved it will cost me more to build these cabinets my-self so just having to put together a CNC'ed cabinet is a life saver when your busy.

Can't wait to hear how you like them.

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

There is a design just finished up that uses that same 10" woofer, but I think it will have a higher end compression driver similar to the DE250. I'm not sure what CD the SHO-10 uses though. Price should start about $200 less. If I recall, they will be under $250 per speaker, including the flat pack box. If you just bought the Delta-10A woofer and a DE250, you would be over $200, so you can see that there's some serious value in what's coming.
There's another even cheaper design ready to go that uses a different Eminence 10" woofer and will be around $200.......with the flat pack box.......including shipping. I've been listening to one in my living room for a while and it's very impressive for the price. If you wanted to build the box yourself, I think the parts come in less than $160 for everything, with shipping. Extremely tough to beat for their performance.
Obviously there are other 12" models coming too. Jeff Bagby is currently working on one of them.
Things are going to be getting crazy for the DIY guys. biggrin.gif

Very cool! For me to try one of these kits I would have to go for a 15 inch version. My dual stacked DR-250's arrays are hard to beat for $600. I would like to compare sometime though. My arrays are preferred over the eD's and JTR's I have owned. I love this whole concept of flat pack kits! My eD subs were the same and simple puzzle boxes.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

There is a design just finished up that uses that same 10" woofer, but I think it will have a higher end compression driver similar to the DE250. I'm not sure what CD the SHO-10 uses though. Price should start about $200 less. If I recall, they will be under $250 per speaker, including the flat pack box. If you just bought the Delta-10A woofer and a DE250, you would be over $200, so you can see that there's some serious value in what's coming.
There's another even cheaper design ready to go that uses a different Eminence 10" woofer and will be around $200.......with the flat pack box.......including shipping. I've been listening to one in my living room for a while and it's very impressive for the price. If you wanted to build the box yourself, I think the parts come in less than $160 for everything, with shipping. Extremely tough to beat for their performance.
Obviously there are other 12" models coming too. Jeff Bagby is currently working on one of them.
Things are going to be getting crazy for the DIY guys. biggrin.gif

The SHO 10 uses the screw on Selenium 220 CD. I think Bill tested it and was surprised at how well it performed. The SHO eminence horn doesn't like a low crossover a point like the SEOS does however.

I have a pair and couldn't be more happy with them so i cant wait to hear an " upgrade". Now when are these TD12S's coming in!?
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:56 PM
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^^^^ I'm one of those that haven't invested in all the tools needed. Even if I did, time would still be against me, so reading all of this has me super pumped and excited! Even if I end up not buying anything for some reason, I'd like to throw a big thanks to Erich for going through all the trouble to make all of this possible. Awesome stuff!
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Following with interest but am I understanding correctly that if you want the kit + enclosure you're looking at $370 apiece?
I'm sure the performance is solid but the price is getting up there in the DIY world, no?
James

No doubt the price will be shocking to some that confuse DIY with "wanting to do things as cheap as possible". My $0.02 to add is that the pro drivers will last a lifetime with minimal attention to care. In this world of disposable electronics it really is unusual to buy something knowing that it will easily last 10 years and should be good for 20-30 maybe 40 years. Simply put, they will out live some of us. Last but not least, you can fix this stuff if you do trash it.
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