SVS PB12-NSD/2 Duplication - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 10-03-2012, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys,

I have a current SVS PB12 NSD/2. I love the thing and want to duplicate it. I have taken the sub apart and looked at the design and figure I can build the enclosure with no problem. I also took very detailed notes,pictures and measurments of all parts. I have obtained some materials over the years as this is something I always dreamed of doing. What I need is someone to recommend subwoofers to use. I am not very good in the design aspect of VAS,QTS, M=3.14 and so forth. Those numbers confuse me. I know I can never make a exact match but at least I can get close. It will also look very nice having two HUGE subs in the basement. My wife will love it!!!! LOL Here is what I have to work with for parts. Any help would be great!!!!! smile.gif

1 inch MDF ( SEVERAL SHEETS)
3/4 MDF ( SEVERAL SHEETS )
4 inch flared ports ( 3 TOTAL )
1 500 watt BASH AMP

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post #2 of 21 Old 10-03-2012, 08:28 PM
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The issue with this is that you need to present the amp with a 4 ohm load. With two drivers that can be tricky. You obviously won't be able to get an exact match to what you have but I'm sure you can come close. With 250 watts per driver I'd say a good choice would be the infinity 1262w as you can get a final load of 4 ohms and they're cheap. Your original drivers I believe are made by TC and the closest option would be the epic, but you'd only want to hook up one coil of each driver to the amp and honestly with only 250w each your wasting the potential of the driver.

Dan
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post #3 of 21 Old 10-03-2012, 09:02 PM
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dan may have calculated a little too quickly. that driver is available as 4 ohm, or dual 4 ohm. dual four ohm can be wired for a net 2ohm or net 8ohm load. two of those drivers can then be wired for a net of 1, 4, or 16 ohms. iirc, the 1262 is the dual coil sub. two can be wired for a net 4 ohms.

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post #4 of 21 Old 10-04-2012, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saabracer23 View Post

The issue with this is that you need to present the amp with a 4 ohm load. With two drivers that can be tricky. You obviously won't be able to get an exact match to what you have but I'm sure you can come close. With 250 watts per driver I'd say a good choice would be the infinity 1262w as you can get a final load of 4 ohms and they're cheap. Your original drivers I believe are made by TC and the closest option would be the epic, but you'd only want to hook up one coil of each driver to the amp and honestly with only 250w each your wasting the potential of the driver.
Dan

I may be wrong but I believe that the OP was going to build one clone of his SVS, not two.
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post #5 of 21 Old 10-04-2012, 08:45 AM
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Oh haha, my bad. Just goes to show you should do a little research before answering. I assumed the /2 at the end of the model number meant it was dual driver. So so in a cabinet that size I'd skip the infinity as you could do better with the power you have. I'd look at the epic.

Dan
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post #6 of 21 Old 10-05-2012, 05:05 PM
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dan, i didn't catch it either.

scotta, if you build the encloser the same as the svs, the epic 12 driver will work. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=293-650

also, the alpine swr1223d (the 2ohm dual coil version) tends to cost less money and will work also.

they will perform pretty similarly. the epic may have a 1db edge.

also, be aware that you can't just add extra ports. if you use more than one port like the svs, the length would have to change to keep the tuning the same.

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post #7 of 21 Old 10-05-2012, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

dan, i didn't catch it either.
scotta, if you build the encloser the same as the svs, the epic 12 driver will work. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=293-650
also, the alpine swr1223d (the 2ohm dual coil version) tends to cost less money and will work also.
they will perform pretty similarly. the epic may have a 1db edge.
also, be aware that you can't just add extra ports. if you use more than one port like the svs, the length would have to change to keep the tuning the same.

Of course the 1db edge means nothing, you wouldn't be able to notice. For me it all came down to asthetics. Alot of people know what alpine type Rs are and I didnt want anyone coming into my livingroom (including myself) and say "your running alpine car subs?" if you don't care about what they look like or anything Id save the money and go for the alpine. Otherwise the epic is a very solid choice.

Dan
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post #8 of 21 Old 10-05-2012, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys thanks a bunch. I can see now what I need to look for. I was not looking at any of those subs or numbers. The TC looks sweet but the Alpine has a $$$ factor. Maybe I ask for Gift cards to PE for XMAS!!!!!!

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post #9 of 21 Old 10-05-2012, 07:51 PM
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cool.

let me just clarify something. the swr1223d has two coils and each is 2 ohms. when they are wired in series, that will give you 4 ohms, which is what will optimize the performance of your amp. alpine also has a swr1243d which has two 4 ohm coils. that one can only be configured to net 2 or 8 ohms. just make sure that you get the swr1223d if you go the alpine route.

the epic 12 only comes in dual 2 ohm, which when wired in series will give you 4 ohms, so it will work with your amp.

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post #10 of 21 Old 10-13-2012, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a bunch. I think I cam going to go the epic way. Always liked TC sounds stuff. Sad that SVS parted ways.

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post #11 of 21 Old 10-13-2012, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD02,

I looking at my notes and the SVS ports are 13.5 inches long 3 total ports and flared at both ends. How much longer you thinking?

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post #12 of 21 Old 10-14-2012, 01:04 PM
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the SVS PB12-NSD/2 only has one port.

if you want to add more ports, each port will have to increase in length by about an additional 1X.

if one port at 13.5" gives 20hz tuning in a box,
two ports will have to be about 27" long each to give the same tuning,
three ports will have to be about 40" long each to give the same tuning,
and so on, roughly speaking.

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post #13 of 21 Old 10-14-2012, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD02

I think your mistaken. The SVS PB12 NSD/2 has three ports and two drivers. The SVS PB12 NSD has a single port and single driver.

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post #14 of 21 Old 10-14-2012, 05:28 PM
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no prob. some of the posts above were confusing.

it looks like with three ports open, the tuning frequency is around 26hz or so on the svs. if you want to copy that and your ports are the same diameter and length and your enclosure is the same volume, then you will get the same tuning.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/166880/Sv-Sound-Pb12-Nsd-2.html?page=10#manual

two 12" drivers that need to net to a 4 ohm load. that is possible. you just need two drivers that are either 2 ohm or 8 ohm by themselves.

the alpine swr line has recently been updated (again), "swr 12d4" is what the dual 4 ohm version is called now (swr1243d was the previous model). they run about $150 ea. the dual 4 ohm coils can be wired in series so that each driver is 8 ohms. then the two drivers can be wired in parallel to net 4 ohms, which is what most plate amps want or pro amps bridged.

the alpines are stout and meant for smallish cabs. in the svs clone cab, they could easily take 1000 watts each, so you might look into a pro amp vs. a plate amp.


dan's suggestion all the way back up in post #2 would work as well.

infinity 1262w can be wired for 2 or 8 ohms per driver. they are cheap and with only 500 watts, you aren't likely to push them past about 10mm or so and the 1262w are good to at least 13mm.

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post #15 of 21 Old 10-15-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

no prob. some of the posts above were confusing.
it looks like with three ports open, the tuning frequency is around 26hz or so on the svs. if you want to copy that and your ports are the same diameter and length and your enclosure is the same volume, then you will get the same tuning.
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/166880/Sv-Sound-Pb12-Nsd-2.html?page=10#manual
two 12" drivers that need to net to a 4 ohm load. that is possible. you just need two drivers that are either 2 ohm or 8 ohm by themselves.
the alpine swr line has recently been updated (again), "swr 12d4" is what the dual 4 ohm version is called now (swr1243d was the previous model). they run about $150 ea. the dual 4 ohm coils can be wired in series so that each driver is 8 ohms. then the two drivers can be wired in parallel to net 4 ohms, which is what most plate amps want or pro amps bridged.
the alpines are stout and meant for smallish cabs. in the svs clone cab, they could easily take 1000 watts each, so you might look into a pro amp vs. a plate amp.
dan's suggestion all the way back up in post #2 would work as well.
infinity 1262w can be wired for 2 or 8 ohms per driver. they are cheap and with only 500 watts, you aren't likely to push them past about 10mm or so and the 1262w are good to at least 13mm.


You mentioned the Infinity 1262w, I am just curious as to hi this driver compares to the Alpine 1223d and the TC Sounds Epic-12 in terms of output extension, & overall sound quality when compared in similar cabinets and tuning frequencys? I wonder if the Infinity 1262w would do 16hz in the right enclosure with around say 500 watts?
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post #16 of 21 Old 10-15-2012, 08:55 AM
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I think sound quality would be similar for all three. If you only have 500watts to play with I would save the money and go with the infinity. You won't be able to take any of those drivers to their limits. If you plan on increasing power at some point then you could look at the alpine. If the sub truly has two drivers then the epic won't work as with two you can only net a 2 or 8 ohm load (except if you only use one coil of each driver or you go with a pro amp).

Dan
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post #17 of 21 Old 10-15-2012, 12:36 PM
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the alpine is now in the 5th generation and the 4th gen had klippels that looked really nice. the motor makes extensive use of copper for inductance control. they report a shorting sleeve, but i find that hard to reconcile with the measured inductance. perhaps it is a partial shorting sleeve. in any case, the alpine is the more advanced design, as for how that translates to sound quality, i can't say. folks have reported happiness with all three drivers.

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post #18 of 21 Old 10-16-2012, 03:53 AM
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The Infinity is so much cheaper than the Alpine, and if the perform pretty much the same, then I may pick up a few of them for my build that I am considering. I will be building several different designs, including an F-20 with an MFW-15 and a sealed sub with the new Dayton 18" driver. I would love to be able to build a pair or treo of ported subs using this Infinity driver. If I do a treo, I might use them in line with my mains (Sierra-1's) in my ht in order to have a more full range front end.
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post #19 of 21 Old 10-16-2012, 06:55 AM
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They would perform the sameish with the given power. With 250 watts each driver the infinity is best. If he could go 500 watts each then it would be a no brainer, the alpine would be best as the infinity would run out of steam way before the alpine.

Dan
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post #20 of 21 Old 10-17-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saabracer23 View Post

They would perform the sameish with the given power. With 250 watts each driver the infinity is best. If he could go 500 watts each then it would be a no brainer, the alpine would be best as the infinity would run out of steam way before the alpine.
Dan


What do you mean by saying "the infinity will run out of steam? Does it not go as low, or have as much output is the Apline? If the Alpine would work better at 500watts then wouldn't it work better at 250watts? Can you kind of explaine that?
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post #21 of 21 Old 10-17-2012, 12:43 PM
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he just meant that the infinity has a lower xmax, which means that it will hit its limit first.

with 500 watts on two drivers in a pb12 clone, the infinity drivers will be just touching xmax, so the extra excursion of the alpine's may not be a factor.

that said, the infinity drivers would be happier in a larger enclosure. if you could go with something closer to 8 cubic feet, the frequency response would be flatter.

if you can put a little eq on them, with 500 watts either driver will work.

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