Trying Something Different "a Ported Horn Sub - AVS Forum
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I Would Like to know possible changes I must make In other to have the best performance and also If the idea of a ported horn sub will even work? So I'm open for any Advice and Suggestions I'm that experience with this so looking for help:)
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:18 PM
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The horn path is far too short to work as a sub, 7 feet is the absolute minimum, and that only loads down to 40Hz. Venting will have little to no effect when the horn is that long, and can even be detrimental. Modeling in HornResp is pretty much a necessity. Your drawing looks like a Cerwin Vega or other adaptation of a 1950s Abe Cohen design, and while it's more or less OK as a woofer it's not a suitable subwoofer design.

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Old 10-04-2012, 03:57 PM
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+1 to what bfm said.

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Old 10-04-2012, 04:06 PM
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i see that you have posted a couple of times about different design possibilities.

it is often best to start with what you are trying to accomplish and any constraints that you have. then folks can suggest some designs.

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Old 10-04-2012, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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really? i kinda figured that based from many of the other horn designs i'm seem, so I'll scratch the part about the port thanks for the incite. now so basically this design need modifications, I kinda was thinking it mite work based on the path distance i saw in the W-horn woofer...I kind got the idea from looking a that and side I could have the driver facing the back as the W-horn but have the all the bass travel through path instead of both sides, so is the path length used in the W- horn still longer? or its the fact that the bass is directed to both ends it takes a longer time to travel....smile.gif "I'm not sure about it all Cause I have I'm not experience with designing subs. I have used W-horn's before and they work great for far throw...So if i find a way to lengthen the horn path it can maybe work?
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:31 AM
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It is all about signal arrival-or time of flight.

When you have 2 signals arriving at a different time-at the same location-you will have cancellations-based on the different arrival times.

Sometimes this can be a good thing-other times not-depending on what you are trying to do.

It is not as simple as "getting the best of both designs" as many people like to think.

Very often they ALSO get the worse of both designs-squared!

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Old 10-06-2012, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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ok I can definitely see what your saying, If you have any good example of this can you post it so i can have and idea of this?
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgo Sound View Post

ok I can definitely see what your saying, If you have any good example of this can you post it so i can have and idea of this?
Again, you must learn how to use HornResp. If there's a front/rear wave cancellation notch it will reveal it.

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Old 10-07-2012, 09:49 PM
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You can get W horn bins where the centre chamber IS ported.

Like this I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnsmsvJpxQ&feature=plcp

Says they go to 40hz, which is fairly deep.

But there are many unported bass horns that go as low as 25hz or lower.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItchyTasty42 View Post

You can get W horn bins where the centre chamber IS ported.
Like this I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnsmsvJpxQ&feature=plcp
Says they go to 40hz, which is fairly deep.
But there are many unported bass horns that go as low as 25hz or lower.
That is the old Don Keele JBL sub. It only goes to 40 Hz if used in a large block (8-2 rows 4 high) if I remember correctly. It may be only 4 (2x2)-I'm not sure however. But most people use the wrong driver in those cabinets-"thinking" they are getting better performance.

I did not say that the idea would not work. Just that you have to be careful-and know what you are doing-and understand the implecations.

It is all about wavelength and time of flight.

Very often people will just "think" of an idea and "assume" it will work.

As Bill said-model it and see what you get. It is not good to guess at these sorts of things-unless you have a lot of REAL experience with them.

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Old 10-08-2012, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgo Sound View Post

ok I can definitely see what your saying, If you have any good example of this can you post it so i can have and idea of this?
I'm not sure of what you mean by a "good example".

Just google "comb filter" and you will probably dig up lots of information

Here is a link to a paper (not exactly about the same thing-but it deals with different arrival times) that I did years ago. Page 2 is where it starts to talk about and show the result of combfiltering.

http://www.dbaudioandvideo.com/files/resource/loudspeaker_placement_rev041021.pdf

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Old 10-11-2012, 08:28 PM
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The only then I can suggest which is the Hog Scoop, not a ported design, but not a folded horn design either and goes down to 35hz in singles(I'm very sure, as the full sized ones go down to 30hz in singles), unlike normal scoops which are limited to music which sounds great with say reggae using those certain characteristics.
As normal scoops have a certain harmonic distortion about them.
I read the Hog Scoop can be used for all types of music, and doesn't sound like your typical scoop.
http://www.sadozskaut.snadno.eu/SPEAKER-PLANS.html

And looks like this when built:

http://www.gssproaudio.com/pictures/pages/hogs.htm

And found a vid of someone using one to test in their bedroom,lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7I22muL7tg

A normal full sized scoop is like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtrkgQsB_sI

Or if you want a mini scoop which goes EVEN DEEPER than the Hog Scoop there is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-h5OxT_wBw
That goes to a great 25hz.

Not the exact one, but a very similar plan here:

http://hornplans.free.fr/ms18.html
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the links, good stuff I'm familiar with the scoop family...A lot of my friends uses the super scoops and the shortman scoop, they do go pretty low...I really like the hogs though here in Belize we have carnivals and we use all the far throw sub the most commonly used is the W-horn, EL-36 Earthquake's and some the super scoops but honestly from my observation it doesn't really compare when its comes to the far throw like the earthquake and the W-horn. now I don't know if the hog scoop has a better capability for far throw but this year there was a Hog stack and they really sound great. But still i see people use the scoops mostly indoors in clubs and stuff....

I do have and I idea of what i want, I wanted to recreate the sound production i saw in some single 15 6th order Bandpass, now let me explain why?.....it had the ability to produce of low pass and far throw from this. There fairly small 36'' H, 20'' W , 29'' D but It really surprise a lot musicians here of the kind of sound quality it produced, there was four of these cabs, they were stacked like this-

What he did to have the change in the sound production of the design was to cut open the bottom pass bigger...as you can see in the pics, but it was really designed to carry a small pass at the bottom. so i think its more loud that way ....? he had these drivers in- The Eminence Kilomax Pro they really pack a punch. He entered the carnival with these and it was a success, the subs performed. Its hard to probably believe the throw he got from the 6th order bandpass.
How much low do think these things goes?

I know there's a lot of great designs out there that would probably do better than these but its really not common here I know three people only in the city that have these with 15'' and they got the plan from him only after hearing them, i'm so interested in them because i was surprise by the sound quality, and there very easy, cheap and fast to build. thats why i had all the earlier post with a plan for 18's instead of 15 drivers In my resent post you can see pictures the first attempt, but its really didn't have the same sound production, the bass was very low but not loud...if i'm explaining myself right? if not sorry i'm not familiar with all the correct terms used.smile.gif but Like to try and achieve that.

sorry if you mite think i'm wasting time on this but just looking for some feed back.

I had W-horns too I'm actually working on four a friend ( my picture)-

one of the four

and this is the picture of the 1st attempt with the 18''driver-


I'm just looking to come out with something different. but maybe it wouldn't work with a bigger driver, not sure could be shooting after air. rolleyes.gif

but....Let me know:D
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