7 x RE Audio XXX 18" subs, Infinite Baffle Sub, Ultimate IB build - Page 7 - AVS Forum

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DIY Speakers and Subs

Ricci's Avatar Ricci
07:29 AM Liked: 243
post #181 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 5,133
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Allen wrench....Jam bare wire up in there and tighten. Do not over tighten as I have stripped these out before.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
08:37 AM Liked: 104
post #182 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Allen wrench....Jam bare wire up in there and tighten. Do not over tighten as I have stripped these out before.

Thanks Ricci, did not see that.

Well, I hooked it up and I just ran one (RE XXX) free air with WOTW, the pod emerging scene and lighting scene and it can go 3db higher on my processor than the LMS in a sealed cab. I am sure it still has plenty left in it, but I am a little scared of pushing it any further. Absolute no strange noises out of the driver and still does not look like it is breaking a sweat. How far should I go?

Do these still put out some SPL free air, b/c it certainly felt like it.
FOH's Avatar FOH
09:18 AM Liked: 213
post #183 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 4,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

How would one tell where the limits of the driver are? I imagine you can't wait for bad sounds of something hitting something within the driver or it will be too late, no?

Yes, observe visually, and listen closely to the self noise. The excursion extremes will encounter some audible anomalous behavior. You'll know it,...anything other than the normal stroking back and forth, soft part and air noise. Ricci has performed the free air excursion testing on the RE XXX 18s.

If you go to DataBass, and view the excursion vids, you can get a feel for it.

As I stated though, ideally you'll have the exact signal path you'll employ in actual use. Then, if you can ease up to clipping, with tones, or WotW infra material, without audible/physical distress, then you're golden. Do you have the capability to generate 5-10-15hz tones? A PC based generator, test disc, or test fles would help.

Slowly ease up to the point of audible change, soft bottoming, if you can clip prior to that point, you're good. The point being to see if you're amp limited, or driver limited. And,....it's fun, just listen closely with your hand on the volume ready to quickly lower the drive level.
keager's Avatar keager
02:12 PM Liked: 17
post #184 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Thanks Ricci, did not see that.
Well, I hooked it up and I just ran one (RE XXX) free air with WOTW, the pod emerging scene and lighting scene and it can go 3db higher on my processor than the LMS in a sealed cab. I am sure it still has plenty left in it, but I am a little scared of pushing it any further. Absolute no strange noises out of the driver and still does not look like it is breaking a sweat. How far should I go?
Do these still put out some SPL free air, b/c it certainly felt like it.

I had the same feeling with mine-Just doesn't seem right how much the cone moves. If you look at Ricci's video, you can see they move a TON more than you would think. I would just make sure you support the frame somehow when doing it because there isn't a lot of surface area to stand them up on. Kinda wobbly. Let em rip! Yes, they do produce spl during free air, but not as much as when mounted because the front and back waves are canceling each other out to some degree. FOH probably could explain it better and has more experience. wink.gif
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
02:26 PM Liked: 996
post #185 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 8,130
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Where are the excursion videos on databass?
FOH's Avatar FOH
02:56 PM Liked: 213
post #186 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 4,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Where are the excursion videos on databass?



Were talking some serious speaker porn up in here.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
03:03 PM Liked: 996
post #187 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 8,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Were talking some serious speaker porn up in here.

CRAPFISH...

No PhotoBucket at the office PC, blockage
filtor1's Avatar filtor1
03:39 PM Liked: 30
post #188 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 966
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I could spend all day watching those videos! tongue.gif
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
05:38 PM Liked: 104
post #189 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Were talking some serious speaker porn up in here.

I got mine no where near those levels. Which means these drivers have so much more left in them over the LMS Ultras on the same levels on WOTW scenes!eek.gif
mjaudio's Avatar mjaudio
07:20 PM Liked: 36
post #190 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 2,476
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The RE XXX has more xmax than the LMS Ultra, something like 54mm vs 34mm if I remember correctly. I would not discount the LMS Ultra though, the XXX will have the low end advantage but the LMS Ultra should have more mid-bass slam which is also important. I think the mix of both subs should be an insane combo wink.gif
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
07:54 PM Liked: 104
post #191 of 540
10-23-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Yes, observe visually, and listen closely to the self noise. The excursion extremes will encounter some audible anomalous behavior. You'll know it,...anything other than the normal stroking back and forth, soft part and air noise. Ricci has performed the free air excursion testing on the RE XXX 18s.
If you go to DataBass, and view the excursion vids, you can get a feel for it.
As I stated though, ideally you'll have the exact signal path you'll employ in actual use. Then, if you can ease up to clipping, with tones, or WotW infra material, without audible/physical distress, then you're golden. Do you have the capability to generate 5-10-15hz tones? A PC based generator, test disc, or test fles would help.
Slowly ease up to the point of audible change, soft bottoming, if you can clip prior to that point, you're good. The point being to see if you're amp limited, or driver limited. And,....it's fun, just listen closely with your hand on the volume ready to quickly lower the drive level.

I have REW, which I think should be able to do that. Just have to figure out how to hook it up to my processor. It is pretty disconcerting watching a driver move that much.eek.gif
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
09:12 AM Liked: 996
post #192 of 540
10-24-2012 | Posts: 8,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

The RE XXX has more xmax than the LMS Ultra, something like 54mm vs 34mm if I remember correctly. I would not discount the LMS Ultra though, the XXX will have the low end advantage but the LMS Ultra should have more mid-bass slam which is also important. I think the mix of both subs should be an insane combo wink.gif

I have been considering this just like JD is doing currently. The LMS will certainly win out up top, and that makes me want my next pair of 18's to be LMS ultras, but Im pretty sure that 4 RE XXX18's should still have more than enough midbass slam biggrin.gif
mjaudio's Avatar mjaudio
11:46 AM Liked: 36
post #193 of 540
10-24-2012 | Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I have been considering this just like JD is doing currently. The LMS will certainly win out up top, and that makes me want my next pair of 18's to be LMS ultras, but Im pretty sure that 4 RE XXX18's should still have more than enough midbass slam biggrin.gif

Considering? Just do it!

Why have 1 big name in the subwoofer world when you can have 2 tongue.gif
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
09:06 AM Liked: 104
post #194 of 540
10-25-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Well, I have the updated plans for the new baffle wall and I should be getting something done very soon. Will post updates as I proceed.

I have been thinking a lot about integrating the LMS with RE XXX. Would the LMS be reasonably safe with a 20 hz HPF witha 24db roll off? Or does anyone have any ideas how I should go about integrating them, especially due to the fact that the RE XXX's will probably go much lower than the LMS, but the LMS will do the mid bass duties better.
mjaudio's Avatar mjaudio
11:00 AM Liked: 36
post #195 of 540
10-25-2012 | Posts: 2,476
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if the LMS Ultra is in about 4cuft sealed you are safe with a 11hz hpf if your driving it with a single channel of the clone. Less power and your safe without a HPF but I think it is somewhere in the 3000 watt or less range.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
05:44 AM Liked: 104
post #196 of 540
10-26-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Just bought the real deal Lab Gruppen FP10000Q. Looks like a nice unit.
FOH's Avatar FOH
05:53 AM Liked: 213
post #197 of 540
10-26-2012 | Posts: 4,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Just bought the real deal Lab Gruppen FP10000Q. Looks like a nice unit.

What are your exact plans for it?

Just for the LMS'?
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
06:45 AM Liked: 104
post #198 of 540
10-26-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

What are your exact plans for it?
Just for the LMS'?
No I am going to use it for the 4 RE XXX drivers, 2100w for each driver at 4 ohms. Then once I get them sorted I think I will buy another Lab gruppen 14000 for the LMS sealed enclosures and run the clone and the real deal for the LMS. Then if the clone shits itsself I will get another FP 14000 real lab gruppen to replace the clone.

The problem is that I am thinking about getting another 4 RE XXX drivers to compliment the LMS drivers. Headroom is your friend , especially with ultra low frequencies.
FOH's Avatar FOH
06:50 AM Liked: 213
post #199 of 540
10-26-2012 | Posts: 4,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

No I am going to use it for the 4 RE XXX drivers, 2100w for each driver at 4 ohms. Then once I get them sorted I think I will buy another Lab gruppen 14000 for the LMS sealed enclosures and run the clone and the real deal for the LMS. Then if the clone shits itsself I will get another FP 14000 real lab gruppen to replace the clone.

Gotcha
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
02:41 AM Liked: 104
post #200 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Ok, what is every ones opinion on near field sub placement? I am considering placing the 4 LMS in near field and applying a LPF and HPF filter where the 4 RE XXX's will lack due to room modes and placement. This way I can compensate for any db loss in the frequency response as near field placement almost guarantees a good frequency response across the board. And with the seating placement I think I could cross the LMS at about 50 hz which should eliminate localisation of the subs. Any thought would be appreciated
Bigus's Avatar Bigus
02:42 PM Liked: 51
post #201 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 4,258
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Probably would work, buy IMO a complete waste of lms subs. There are dozens of drivers that would work great for nearfield bass/midbass for a fraction of the cost. Nearfield is fine, but why hpf them?
FOH's Avatar FOH
06:01 PM Liked: 213
post #202 of 540
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He already owns the LMS drivers, so quite the contrary.

And yes, I agree, no need for a hi-pass. You're going to have 8 of the finest LF drivers in the world, in a quite "lossless" space. The small sealed cubic volume will keep the excursion in check.
mjaudio's Avatar mjaudio
06:04 PM Liked: 36
post #203 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 2,476
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You might want to ask Notnyt if a HPF is needed, he bottomed his 8 LMS Ultra's before and now uses a HPF.
mjaudio's Avatar mjaudio
06:09 PM Liked: 36
post #204 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Ok, what is every ones opinion on near field sub placement? I am considering placing the 4 LMS in near field and applying a LPF and HPF filter where the 4 RE XXX's will lack due to room modes and placement. This way I can compensate for any db loss in the frequency response as near field placement almost guarantees a good frequency response across the board. And with the seating placement I think I could cross the LMS at about 50 hz which should eliminate localisation of the subs. Any thought would be appreciated

You want to cross the LMS Ultra's over at 50hz or a HPF placed there? Neither is needed IMO but a HPF would be a good choice to keep the LMS Ultra from killing it-self, probably about 11hz or so.
Bigus's Avatar Bigus
07:05 PM Liked: 51
post #205 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 4,258
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Fog, yeah I understand he already has the lms. Just pointing out the waste in crossing or hpf them so high. They are plenty capable down low (second perhaps only to the other subs in the system) and even in nearfield you'd want the additional sources down there for headroom and smoothing. Hpf at 10hz maybe. 50 is a complete waste.
Bigus's Avatar Bigus
07:06 PM Liked: 51
post #206 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 4,258
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Lol, gotta love the "correction"... fog. Thanks phone. And thanks tapatalk for not letting me correct.
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
07:57 PM Liked: 104
post #207 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Thanks again for the advise guys. As you can see I have no idea what I am doing! LOL

OK, so no HPF so high in the frequency range, somewhere around 10 hz if it is needed at all. I was just concerned that they won't be able to keep up with the RE XXX down really low and I don't want to damage them again.

I was thinking of crossing them around 50hz to reduce localization due to them being near field if I was to go that approach. I am just trying to throw out a few ideas on how to integrate these two sets of different woofers.
Elill's Avatar Elill
08:20 PM Liked: 22
post #208 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 1,468
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I admire your efforts here.....what you're proposing is an epic undertaking!....what does Dennis say about the need for such an array of subs?

I'd have thought you'd get simialr results with a couple of tapped horns (Danley style) and a few smaller balancing subs.

My own plan for a room slightly smaller than yours is 2 large subs up front to do "x hz" (lets say 10ish) - 40hz. Then 3 "bass bins" being 18" sealed pro drivers to do 40-80/100 and 3 in wall balancing subs being DIY (JL audio's shallow depth car thing)

Any reason for not looking at a horn design?......FWIW I know crap all about this too biggrin.gif
JapanDave's Avatar JapanDave
08:40 PM Liked: 104
post #209 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

I admire your efforts here.....what you're proposing is an epic undertaking!....what does Dennis say about the need for such an array of subs?
I'd have thought you'd get simialr results with a couple of tapped horns (Danley style) and a few smaller balancing subs.
My own plan for a room slightly smaller than yours is 2 large subs up front to do "x hz" (lets say 10ish) - 40hz. Then 3 "bass bins" being 18" sealed pro drivers to do 40-80/100 and 3 in wall balancing subs being DIY (JL audio's shallow depth car thing)
Any reason for not looking at a horn design?......FWIW I know crap all about this too biggrin.gif

Dennis has not said much about the subs.

I am not a fan of horns, don't ask me why as I can't tell you. They just have not appealed to me. The reason IB appealed to me was b/c of the quality of base you supposedly get (again, I have not heard an IB setup so I can't comment).

Sounds like you have a good plan! smile.gif
Elill's Avatar Elill
10:44 PM Liked: 22
post #210 of 540
10-28-2012 | Posts: 1,468
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Ah fair enough - I've heard one horn that I particularly disliked and one that I couldn't tell the difference between a sealed - the difference was the design of the vent and the curves inside the box around the junctions (if that makes sense). So the first had noticeable turbulance and the second was clean as....

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