My TD12M/SEOS-12 build - AVS Forum

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DIY Speakers and Subs

AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
10:01 AM Liked: 531
post #1 of 238
10-09-2012 | Posts: 8,373
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Anybody know the volume displacement of the SEOS-12 with DNA360? Trying to size my 2-way design. I think I am going to go small ported, using the TD12M, SEOS-12 and DNA360.

Added
I decided to change the title to my build thread. Don't expect a lot of pictures, but I will provide some info and a few pics. I changed my box design to a smaller box. Rather than enclose the upper section off from the rest of the box, I went smaller and used that area for box volume. My box now has external dimensions of 26" x 14.5" x 10.75". The front baffle is double 3/4". I am using one of Erich's flat packs. I am using a 1" x 13" slot port with 9" effective length. The interior box volume is 1.1 CF after subtracting everything out. Box is tuned to 51.46hz. I decided to put the box together without using any fasteners. Using Titebond wood glue.

Here is the first box built with drivers loaded for test listen:


TD12M


Inside of Erich flat pack box without double baffle. I added the slot port.


Crossover


All three boxes. Two sanded, primed and filled.


Speakers in temporary set up. They will go behind the curved AT screen.
Front left


Center


Front right

robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
11:03 AM Liked: 17
post #2 of 238
10-09-2012 | Posts: 445
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Hi Mike,

Very little. Really though, the TD12M, for instance, is 0.1 cu.ft., so I'd guess the cd and waveguide is .02-.05-ish. Probably splitting hairs at that point as you'd likely only see extremely minute changes in port tuning and F3 when simulating it. You could use two chambers for the woofer and waveguide and take it completely out of the equation as well.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
11:14 AM Liked: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

Hi Mike,
Very little. Really though, the TD12M, for instance, is 0.1 cu.ft., so I'd guess the cd and waveguide is .02-.05-ish. Probably splitting hairs at that point as you'd likely only see extremely minute changes in port tuning and F3 when simulating it. You could use two chambers for the woofer and waveguide and take it completely out of the equation as well.

Thanks, I knew the TD12M was 0.1CF, but not having a SEOS-12 or the CD in my hands, I did not have any idea the volume of displacement for those two. I am trying to keep my box exterior depth down to 12", so I may have to use the upper cavity to get the 1.1CF I was looking to use.
Jon_B's Avatar Jon_B
12:10 PM Liked: 16
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10-09-2012 | Posts: 623
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I think robot bunny has a pretty good looking design. I also decided to go with the td12m, so I look forward to seeing your build commence.
robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
12:56 PM Liked: 17
post #5 of 238
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Cool. biggrin.gif Without a double baffle I'd be at 12.75" in depth, not too far off from what you need. 14.5W 15.5H 12.75D plus waveguide chamber to be exact. You'll start to see the tradeoffs as you play with port tuning and enclosure size and how they will correspond to the overall construction, 1.0 cu.ft, port 1x12x10 port, tuned to 50Hz, and ~80Hz F3 point. You're going to be crossing to subs anyway, so it's really versitile. Have you placed your order with AE yet? May as well to get in que...new orders won't take long. wink.gif
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

Cool. biggrin.gif Without a double baffle I'd be at 12.75" in depth, not too far off from what you need. 14.5W 15.5H 12.75D plus waveguide chamber to be exact. You'll start to see the tradeoffs as you play with port tuning and enclosure size and how they will correspond to the overall construction, 1.0 cu.ft, port 1x12x10 port, tuned to 50Hz, and ~80Hz F3 point. You're going to be crossing to subs anyway, so it's really versitile. Have you placed your order with AE yet? May as well to get in que...new orders won't take long. wink.gif

Yes, I am in the que and the wait begins. smile.gif I am going to cheat and use the 14.5" wide x 25" high pre-built baffle with the three 2.5" port openings. That way I just have to build three braced boxes. I know that I will have to chase the opening for the driver slightly larger, but that is no big deal. Need to keep exterior depth to 12" so that I have enough room behind the screen to toe the speakers in enough.
robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
03:00 PM Liked: 17
post #7 of 238
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Excellent. I cheated too. tongue.gif It's a no braier though, Erich's blank seos baffles are a huge time saver. You're gonna be happy.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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Robot bunny, did you use the AE gasket on your drivers? If so can you confirm the diameter of the driver and the depth. I will not have the drivers, when I build the boxes.
robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
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Yes, I did use the gasket. The diameter is 12.5" and 6.75" deep. http://www.aespeakers.com/pdfs/TD12-dimensional.pdf

iirc, my cutout is 12.625".
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

Yes, I did use the gasket. The diameter is 12.5" and 6.75" deep. http://www.aespeakers.com/pdfs/TD12-dimensional.pdf
iirc, my cutout is 12.625".

Depth of recess, is the other measurement I was looking for.
robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
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post #11 of 238
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.625" So, when gasket tape is used the woofer is on the same plane as the waveguide per bwaslo's notes here: http://libinst.com/SEOS/SEOS12_TD12M/

Edited to add: I'm not using gasket tape beneath my waveguide because it does not need to be sealed in it's separate chamber. So, you'll need to adjust for woofer depth for your needs.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

.625" So, when gasket tape is used the woofer is on the same plane as the waveguide per bwaslo's notes here: http://libinst.com/SEOS/SEOS12_TD12M/
Edited to add: I'm not using gasket tape beneath my waveguide because it does not need to be sealed in it's separate chamber. So, you'll need to adjust for woofer depth for your needs.

I may end up doing pretty much what you did. Seal off the upper section and a 1" x 13" slot port. 1.1CF sealed section for TD12M.
Jon_B's Avatar Jon_B
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Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I may end up doing pretty much what you did. Seal off the upper section and a 1" x 13" slot port. 1.1CF sealed section for TD12M.

Like I said, I think robot bunny came up with a good design. I certainly would have never thought of separating the drivers, but it sure looks like it works well.
LTD02's Avatar LTD02
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watch that cutout measurement, as it is larger than the driver. the driver will fall right through the baffle.

perhaps that is the cutout of a second front baffle with a recessed driver.

the cutout that the driver is mounted to is what i suspect mike was asking for.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

watch that cutout measurement, as it is larger than the driver. the driver will fall right through the baffle.
perhaps that is the cutout of a second front baffle with a recessed driver.
the cutout that the driver is mounted to is what i suspect mike was asking for.

The 12.625" is the cutout to be able to recess the driver, since the driver is 12.5" in diameter. The 0.625" is the depth to flush mount the driver. The hole cut out needs to be 11.0625".
robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
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Yes, I should have specified. That is for the recess cutout for double baffle.
rajacat's Avatar rajacat
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How did you determine the displacement of the TD12M? I have the TD15M but can't find the displacement. Is this number large enough to be important when determining box volume? Does this spec. include, not just speaker cone vol. but the displ. of the spider, magnet, etc.?

Thanks
robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
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Hey rajacat. It's on the AE forums, I did a search and found a reply from Simon here: http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2974&p=14487&hilit=driver+volume#p14487

Not sure about the td15 though. Send Simon a message.
rajacat's Avatar rajacat
09:12 AM Liked: 18
post #19 of 238
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robotbunny,
Thanks. I just went to the AE forum and posted an inquiry.
I'm going with a separate bass bin so have no need to worry about the WG/CD displ.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz
10:11 AM Liked: 69
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10-10-2012 | Posts: 3,282
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Did anyone posts measurements between a sealed TD12M vs ported?


I am thinking of going sealed once I get my drivers.
rajacat's Avatar rajacat
10:01 PM Liked: 18
post #21 of 238
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No response yet on the AE forum. Not too busy there.
Hmm...I guess I'll just add a little bit to the .1 cu.ft., ~10% for the extra size =.11 cu ft. Probably splitting hairs here.rolleyes.gif Should be easy, just add .11 cu ft to the modeled cabinet size.
I'll probably start a new thread here very soon for my build. SEOS 18, TD15M and Big Azz CD.biggrin.gif I have numbers for two different vented designs plus a sealed box option..
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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10-11-2012 | Posts: 8,373
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I assume you are waiting for your TD15M drivers? if I had the room, I would have gone for something like that. Should make for one heck of a speaker.
rajacat's Avatar rajacat
10:44 AM Liked: 18
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I was lucky enough to have my TD15Ms' in the first shipment out to the group buy participants.smile.gif They arrived over a month ago. Still need the phase plugs though.
It took me over a year to gather all the parts for my build. In the interim, I started remodeling my house so priorities have changed and the construction of the speaker will proceed more slowly than I'd like. Also, I still need to buy the measuring equipment and minidsp for the active crossover.
rajacat's Avatar rajacat
11:20 AM Liked: 18
post #24 of 238
10-11-2012 | Posts: 317
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I just found this displacement calculator.


http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/DriverDisplacement/Help.aspx
Wayne Parham's Avatar Wayne Parham
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post #25 of 238
10-11-2012 | Posts: 118
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Here's a more generic approach that is useful for calculating the volume displaced by a variety of things like horns, ports and drivers:


You can get as precise as you want, modeling all the tiny details. Or you can use a more primitive shape model, like approximating a speaker driver as a cone and cylinder. I find that in practice, the larger the cabinet, the less precision is needed. As an example, if the cabinet is several thousand cubic inches - the driver and/or horn are probably 50-200 cubic inches each, so even if you're off by a few cubic inches, there is no impact on the response curve. Atmospheric pressure or temperature changes would matter more than being off ten cubic inches in a two cubic foot box. So remember that as you make your calculations, and use the appropriate level of precision.

More information:


rajacat's Avatar rajacat
09:34 PM Liked: 18
post #26 of 238
10-11-2012 | Posts: 317
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Hi Wayne,
Thanks for the link and tip. I've been exploring your site and there's a lot of useful information there that will certainly be of use to me in constructing my first diy speakers.

....Roy
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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post #27 of 238
10-21-2012 | Posts: 8,373
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Just about have my crossovers built for my TD12M/SEOS-12 with DNA360's. Would have them done, if I was not waiting on two resistors. So I have one complete and the other two are 99% complete. I have to give credit to robotbunny, since I copied his design. http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/mjg100photo/TD12M-SEOS-12withDNA360crossover001.jpg
robotbunny's Avatar robotbunny
09:07 PM Liked: 17
post #28 of 238
10-21-2012 | Posts: 445
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Nice work Mike! I just followed bwaslo's schematic, though. smile.gif Started making your enclosures yet?
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5
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10-21-2012 | Posts: 8,373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

Nice work Mike! I just followed bwaslo's schematic, though. smile.gif Started making your enclosures yet?

I checked yours against the schematic and after confirming it was correct, used it as a pattern. Getting the enclosures from Erich, but no port. I will cut and build the slot port.
Jon_B's Avatar Jon_B
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post #30 of 238
10-22-2012 | Posts: 623
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What kind of enclosure are you getting? Just the basic 2 cu foot one?

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