So realistically, how do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 325 Old 11-09-2012, 09:19 PM
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that's not where i was going james. i was just a little surprised that is what he said.

if you drive a ferrari and live in a malibu mansion, i'll go along with the sub2 idea...in multiples. :-)

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post #272 of 325 Old 11-09-2012, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I think the proper answer to the question posed in this thread is this: Flat kits sound exactly the same as high-dollar finished retail products, both require effort and knowledge to optimize. Both can be 'perfect' and with enough watts and displacement, as loud as could ever be needed. Once optimized, either approach can/should achieve 'reference' level sound. How much it costs to get there varies. There's value and there's excess to be found in both approaches.
I am going to have a top quality cabinet builder create my next cabinets. Fourth-generation German cabinet builder with a shop in Manhattan, Upper East Side. Nicest plywood I've ever seen, seriously. It's still DIY, I'm just not doing the woodwork or finishing myself. Of course I'll have pictures to post when it's built. Meeting is in 10 days.
One thing I know for sure. No commercial sub I've ever heard - and I've been to some very nice expensive speaker showrooms - beats what I'm listening to right now, thanks to DIY and the knowledge I gained from this site. I'm nothing but grateful.

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that's not where i was going james. i was just a little surprised that is what he said.
if you drive a ferrari and live in a malibu mansion, i'll go along with the sub2 idea...in multiples. :-)

I am glad this convo has taken a turn for the high-end. having never heard the sub2, I can not really comment on it, but having heard a pair of DTS-10's I have to say it is something of another world. Truly exciting to hear that immense amount of power coming from a quad set of 12's horn loaded. as far as $6,000 goes on subs, the point, IMO still remains. For $6,000 I could own another 6 RE XXX18's to match the two I have, and add another couple 14 thousand watt amps and I would be in hog heaven...along with the rest of my street, should I really want to crank it up. There is XS and there is excess. I am not against it, and where i sit right now, I still have room to go, but $6,000 to THIS DIY dude, is enough for me to build a whole theater out of...and still beat yo paradigm's!!!!!

DK, REALLY looking forward to what you have in the works!!! BUT, fourth generation german plywood kinda makes me nervous..chuckle chuckle. I'll find you some nice ply, just c'mon down and we can have a nice shop-party, no need for Manhattan wink.gif

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post #273 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 12:19 AM
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Looking at Ricci's tests, the UXL equals and in some cases outguns the LMS in his tests....and for half the money, as well as not needing a clone amp to power the thing. I'm wondering is the sub 2 since it has drivers that wouldn't be facing the mic for testing, would make a big enough difference. I've had some time with a sub 2. It's a very nice sub. I got to set one up on a audyssey pro install. Very beautiful cabinet and great performance. That being said, I wasn't all that impressed with it's outright SLP. It sounded great but it wasn't any sort of HT monster some may think it was. I've seen them sell at my Bro in laws store for 4.5K CDN when a whole system was bought.

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post #274 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 01:00 AM
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Sigh...Re Sub2... I think it is a great subwoofer with impressive engineering. It did sound great and better than any other finished product I've reviewed. Ltd02 is right though it is not the best bass or system I've ever heard. I just assumed that the review would be read in context of where it was posted.
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post #275 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 06:20 AM
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^ that's fine and I acknowledged such. I simply also stated that knowing your tenure here and participation on the DIY...and others here also visiting audioholics, that you may have thrown in some DIY option(s) for contrast.

It's cool, so it may be just one of the top 5 or so options on earth, in totality, lol. Still a product with a different audience than likely anything that surpasses it.

I sure wouldn't complain about a pair if anyone is looking for my December bday/Christmas ideas. biggrin.gif

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post #276 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

that's not where i was going james. i was just a little surprised that is what he said.
if you drive a ferrari and live in a malibu mansion, i'll go along with the sub2 idea...in multiples. :-)


Good morning:


I know, I know , lol. But it can get pretty dicey on these REAL pricey b/m options in these parts. We all know you can save a tremendous amount of scratch with DIY, but, as we would agree, the folks buying these are not terribly concerned with that side of the equation, for better or worse.

Live and let live I say...we can chuckle all to way to the bank, but let them love their immediate, most times more beautiful, high performing choices too. smile.gif

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Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #277 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 07:19 AM
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I'm doing photography for the cabinet builder. He's a client and a friend. I'm planning on doing a trade for the labor. As for the wood, it's already in his shop and it's really nice stuff. Here's a picture:



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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

DK, REALLY looking forward to what you have in the works!!! BUT, fourth generation german plywood kinda makes me nervous..chuckle chuckle. I'll find you some nice ply, just c'mon down and we can have a nice shop-party, no need for Manhattan wink.gif

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post #278 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 07:28 AM
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Six top-quality 10" woofers in a tightly sealed box with lots of power and EQ. I think most DIYers know exactly what to expect from six 10" drivers. It's all about context. Sub 2 is probably top 5 in the world of finished, stand-alone commercial subwoofers meant for the home.

It's simple - for people with no DIY experience, the Sub 2 is SIX subwoofers in one - i.e. mind-blowing. To the DIY crowd, the Sub 2 is a competent piece of hardware and a very pretty piece of furniture.

On the Malibu Mansion/Ferrari tip - many of those folks have professional sound equipment installed in their home theaters, or else commission a custom install. The Sub 2 would be too low end for them. That's a fact of life for folks who also have 100+ foot yachts custom built for them.

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^ that's fine and I acknowledged such. I simply also stated that knowing your tenure here and participation on the DIY...and others here also visiting audioholics, that you may have thrown in some DIY option(s) for contrast.
It's cool, so it may be just one of the top 5 or so options on earth, in totality, lol. Still a product with a different audience than likely anything that surpasses it.
I sure wouldn't complain about a pair if anyone is looking for my December bday/Christmas ideas. biggrin.gif
James

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post #279 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 07:38 AM
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If someone offered me a pair of Sub 2s for what I've paid for DIY so far, I'd buy it. I'd show it off. I'd cite the MSRP when people asked how much it cost. I'm not immune to the joys of playing Richie Rich... Then I'd demo My own DIY subs, but only after I had my guests convinced the Sub 2 is what the brochure claims it is. That way the shock-and-awed look on their faces would be even more fun to watch.

I grew up listening to Krell amps powering many of the great speakers of the early 90s. Not at home - my mom was single and definitely not rich - but I made friends with the owner of a high-end stereo shop in Providence RI. Every day after school I'd go there and he'd demo everything for me. He said he was 'grooming me to be a future customer'. I do admit that I've never prized aesthetics over performance.

When you are saving literally thousands of dollars with DIY, it's OK to hire outside help for certain aspects including wood cutting, assembly and finishing. Custom cabinets are not cheap, but when you get to the real high end where the arguments turn towards what nice furniture subwoofers are I'm saying you can have your cake and eat it too. In all likelihood, a dual-opposed LMS-Ultra sub in a professionally built and finished cabinet - including amp and miniDSP - would run under $5,000 and would be far ahead of any commercial/consumer offering in terms of capability. Of course I'd want a pair of those, too!biggrin.gif

Here's the last sub I owned before I went full DIY: http://www.b-52pro.com/products/LX1818V3.html - I had the 'active' version. EQ that sucker and you've got the power of Zeus at your fingertips. I guess you could say size and aesthetics don't matter so much to me. Haha, this thread reminded me of my (forgotten) dubkingdom.com homepage. My old system lives on as the background graphic. http://dubkingdom.com/
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Good morning:
I know, I know , lol. But it can get pretty dicey on these REAL pricey b/m options in these parts. We all know you can save a tremendous amount of scratch with DIY, but, as we would agree, the folks buying these are not terribly concerned with that side of the equation, for better or worse.
Live and let live I say...we can chuckle all to way to the bank, but let them love their immediate, most times more beautiful, high performing choices too. smile.gif
James

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post #280 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 09:51 AM
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The super high-end is fun to dream about, isn't it? Let me offer a challenge to the guys who say they can save money with DIY. I'm Mr. Average Joe with caviar tastes in audio. But reality puts a few limitations on what I want. I know, I know, you guys are going to tell me my priorities are all wrong, but that's just where I am in life. For my 27 years of marriage my wife has suffered with ugly black boxes and huge entertainment centers. I'm also, I guess, growing out of that stage in my life. I just don't want my AV system to dominate my livingroom or my life, for that matter. But... I love high-end performance, too.

Right now I have a Hsu TN1220HO hooked up to a bridged Adcom GFA555. The Adcom is probably 25 years old? and I think it's failing, so I'm looking for a new sub. Yeah, I'm the only person among our friends who knows what a subwoofer is, so our friends already think I'm nuts. They're fine with their iDocks.

So show me how DIY can help. I looked at the Hsu ULF15 and Rythmik F15. They both claim output down to 10hz, they're both said to be very clean, and they'll fit in the space I have. They're shorter than 5', so they're less visible than the TN1220.

So I guess my design limitations are:

1. self powered (I'm tired of cables)
2. Footprint approx 18"x18" or less
3. max height 24"

Can I do better than these retail options for less money? The savings/performance advantage has to be significant or I'd rather not mess with it. I don't mind assembling something, but I don't have a table saw and if I've got to hire a cabinet maker, my savings go out the window.

So you guys who said "give me $X and I'll beat the HSU in every way" does that still stand accepting size limitation?
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post #281 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 10:09 AM
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You already found the right subwoofer for your needs. Get the Hsu. I think a few other folks already said the same thing. 99% of your program material will fit well within that subwoofer's specs. You should probably be asking about commercial alternatives to the Hsu, instead of worrying about whether you'd be missing out if you don't go DIY. To quote Hannibal Lecter - "We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body, Clarice? And don't your eyes seek out the things you want?" Same goes for ears and subwoofers. Hsu subs are well reviewed and clearly competent - and they are familiar to you.

The truth is, you should apply the knowledge the DIY guys have to your commercial sub, whatever you buy. From a performance standpoint, proper integration is the key. I also agree that saving a couple hundred dollars is not necessarily worth it at the $1,000 price point, and that the entire trend of commercial audio is towards small, more wife-friendly designs.

People's taste in sports cars are governed by a similar thought process, arguing Porsche vs. Chevy vs. Lamorghini... but the serious hobbyists will likely end up with something like this: http://exomotive.com/exocet/
Obviously that's not gonna wind up in the garage of some balding plastic surgeon who just wants to look 'cool' in a sporty convertible Porsche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

The super high-end is fun to dream about, isn't it? Let me offer a challenge to the guys who say they can save money with DIY. I'm Mr. Average Joe with caviar tastes in audio. But reality puts a few limitations on what I want. I know, I know, you guys are going to tell me my priorities are all wrong, but that's just where I am in life. For my 27 years of marriage my wife has suffered with ugly black boxes and huge entertainment centers. I'm also, I guess, growing out of that stage in my life. I just don't want my AV system to dominate my livingroom or my life, for that matter. But... I love high-end performance, too.
Right now I have a Hsu TN1220HO hooked up to a bridged Adcom GFA555. The Adcom is probably 25 years old? and I think it's failing, so I'm looking for a new sub. Yeah, I'm the only person among our friends who knows what a subwoofer is, so our friends already think I'm nuts. They're fine with their iDocks.
So show me how DIY can help. I looked at the Hsu ULF15 and Rythmik F15. They both claim output down to 10hz, they're both said to be very clean, and they'll fit in the space I have. They're shorter than 5', so they're less visible than the TN1220.
So I guess my design limitations are:
1. self powered (I'm tired of cables)
2. Footprint approx 18"x18" or less
3. max height 24"
Can I do better than these retail options for less money? The savings/performance advantage has to be significant or I'd rather not mess with it. I don't mind assembling something, but I don't have a table saw and if I've got to hire a cabinet maker, my savings go out the window.
So you guys who said "give me $X and I'll beat the HSU in every way" does that still stand accepting size limitation?

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post #282 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

The super high-end is fun to dream about, isn't it? Let me offer a challenge to the guys who say they can save money with DIY. I'm Mr. Average Joe with caviar tastes in audio. But reality puts a few limitations on what I want. I know, I know, you guys are going to tell me my priorities are all wrong, but that's just where I am in life. For my 27 years of marriage my wife has suffered with ugly black boxes and huge entertainment centers. I'm also, I guess, growing out of that stage in my life. I just don't want my AV system to dominate my livingroom or my life, for that matter. But... I love high-end performance, too.
Right now I have a Hsu TN1220HO hooked up to a bridged Adcom GFA555. The Adcom is probably 25 years old? and I think it's failing, so I'm looking for a new sub. Yeah, I'm the only person among our friends who knows what a subwoofer is, so our friends already think I'm nuts. They're fine with their iDocks.
So show me how DIY can help. I looked at the Hsu ULF15 and Rythmik F15. They both claim output down to 10hz, they're both said to be very clean, and they'll fit in the space I have. They're shorter than 5', so they're less visible than the TN1220.
So I guess my design limitations are:
1. self powered (I'm tired of cables)
2. Footprint approx 18"x18" or less
3. max height 24"
Can I do better than these retail options for less money? The savings/performance advantage has to be significant or I'd rather not mess with it. I don't mind assembling something, but I don't have a table saw and if I've got to hire a cabinet maker, my savings go out the window.
So you guys who said "give me $X and I'll beat the HSU in every way" does that still stand accepting size limitation?

You love high end performance yet the subs you listed would be considered "mid-fi" at best. The whole point of DIY is to get hi-end performance for mid-fi prices.. You want a sub to build? UXL 18, 4 CF box , ep4000 (or any similar spec'd amp), minidsp. All for under a grand for everything including the box.

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post #283 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 01:11 PM
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Saw this thread and another on the email, and have been following along, amusedly. Seeing as the thread originator is happy and long gone, thought I would ask a question. Wondering if any have read the Northeast October 20thGTG comparing ID to DIY and have comments? Specifically the Captivators and Seatons generally besting the Daytons and LMS Ultras it seems. Is it just way more money thrown into those two ($5000 and $6600)and DIY versions not really comparable, especially the 15" Daytons? What does that LMS Ultra setup go for anyway, 2 of them with iNuke6000? Maybe someone could cite a comparable DIY version and the cost difference.

I'm a total clueless newbie and intrigued by the DIY possibility. I've been enjoying my Paradigm system for a few years now, Studio 60's, cc590 and a little bulldog of a Seismic 110 sub. Wondering what I've been missing in bombastic bass. Paradigm says it extends down to 18hz, can that be possible? That little sub is impressive though. As all my friends who have been over are more clueless than I, they are rather impressed by the bass. One even described it "pants flapping". I know there is no replacement for displacement, size matters, etc, so what am I missing? I rarely listen over -10 by the way, so if I should build something like the originator will I see a difference? Or will i have to put up more cash than $500 to be pummeled by bass?


If cutting and installing crown molding isnt too difficult then DIY should not be an issue right?

And finally, beastaudio, those speakers look fantastic! Not sure about the curtains though. And do you get a kink in your neck from looking up at the screen?
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post #284 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 02:32 PM
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You love high end performance yet the subs you listed would be considered "mid-fi" at best. The whole point of DIY is to get hi-end performance for mid-fi prices.. You want a sub to build? UXL 18, 4 CF box , ep4000 (or any similar spec'd amp), minidsp. All for under a grand for everything including the box.

Oh, and the last restriction is price. I can justify around $1000, and those two offerings are the two that come up often as the best performance for the price.

Has anyone done the build you suggest and can comment on the results?
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post #285 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

So show me how DIY can help. I looked at the Hsu ULF15 and Rythmik F15. They both claim output down to 10hz, they're both said to be very clean, and they'll fit in the space I have. They're shorter than 5', so they're less visible than the TN1220.
So I guess my design limitations are:
1. self powered (I'm tired of cables)
2. Footprint approx 18"x18" or less
3. max height 24"
Can I do better than these retail options for less money? The savings/performance advantage has to be significant or I'd rather not mess with it. I don't mind assembling something, but I don't have a table saw and if I've got to hire a cabinet maker, my savings go out the window.
So you guys who said "give me $X and I'll beat the HSU in every way" does that still stand accepting size limitation?

Given your restrictions of plate amp and relying on a small flat pack enclosure, I don't think you would be able to beat the Hsu. I didn't see a flat pack enclosure with a footprint of 18"x18" or less that would house a 15" driver which means you'd have to go with a 12". Plate amps give less watts per dollar and I believe many have built in HPF around 15-20 Hz.

If you didn't have those restrictions, as others have said, you could beat the Hsu. Example: self built 18" cube ($50), Fi Q15 ($350) or TC Sound driver, iNuke 3000 or EP4000 ($300), and miniDSP ($150). That gives you more power and more control than the ULS15 at a cost of $850. The real value comes when you want multiples and/or can go with larger enclosures. Make 2 of said subs with an iNuke6000 instead of 3000 ($100 add) and you got 2 subs for $1350. Get even more value by using 20" cubes with Dayton HO18s ($250 ea, assuming they test out OK by Ricci).

My quad sealed MFWs powered by an EP4000 and miniDSP cost under $1000. They sound great and have more output than my uncle's PB13 ultra. However, they are larger, don't look as nice (due to my lack of finishing experience and lack of concern of aesthetics), and require more components and wiring. Unfortunately, I can't really compare sound quality as I haven't heard them in the same setting. A good example of quad sealed MFWs compared to commercial subs: Archaea's blind subwoofer GTG. The quad MFWs powered by a 1000W amp scored higher than dual Hsu VTF-15s but lower than the top dog commercial offerings (which I've wondered if more power would have gotten them better scores).
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post #286 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 07:42 PM
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Oh, and the last restriction is price. I can justify around $1000, and those two offerings are the two that come up often as the best performance for the price.
Has anyone done the build you suggest and can comment on the results?

Yes, quite a few people have also give or take 1 cf smaller and bigger. I've personally built 2 for friends. Extremely impressive. Like I said, it's not that the other 2 subs are not good performers, there is just much more performance to be had for the money you want to spend

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Am i wrong or would someone be able to live comfortably off of assmebling erichs kits?

Hell, just a cabinet would be nice... I would pay $500 for a single cabinet that holds a 12" and SEOS 12 and is finished really nicely. Do most people not agree?

If you finish 2 cabinets a week thats ~$4000 a month assuming you have all the tools and stuff.
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post #288 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 08:08 PM
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Am i wrong or would someone be able to live comfortably off of assmebling erichs kits?
Hell, just a cabinet would be nice... I would pay $500 for a single cabinet that holds a 12" and SEOS 12 and is finished really nicely. Do most people not agree?
If you finish 2 cabinets a week thats ~$4000 a month assuming you have all the tools and stuff.

shipping would kill the deal. I wouldn't pay 500$ for that. You can get Funk Audio to make you a nice box for about that much money.

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post #289 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 08:41 PM
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There's a guy on L.A. Craigslist selling 2 new w15gti for 225 each. Put them in a 3^ box each power by 3000dsp and you got yourself 2 uls killer for less than 1000 including wood. Just saying. Maybe I should jump on that.
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post #290 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
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shipping would kill the deal. I wouldn't pay 500$ for that. You can get Funk Audio to make you a nice box for about that much money.

IIRC its like $800-$900 for a 4 cu ft box that warpdrv got for his LMS ultra. Not sure if that includes shipping

Maybe $1200 for a pair before shipping i would gues for 1.5 cu ft boxes with cutouts for SEOS-12 and 12" driver.. what doesnt intrigue me is the ambiguous wait times because you probably get put on the back burner.
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post #291 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 09:45 PM
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"The super high-end is fun to dream about, isn't it?"

puppet,

if you know how to finish an enclosure, the high end no longer requires dreaming about:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here/5490#post_22570704

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #292 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 11:07 PM
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IIRC its like $800-$900 for a 4 cu ft box that warpdrv got for his LMS ultra. Not sure if that includes shipping
Maybe $1200 for a pair before shipping i would gues for 1.5 cu ft boxes with cutouts for SEOS-12 and 12" driver.. what doesnt intrigue me is the ambiguous wait times because you probably get put on the back burner.

When I called Funk they quoted me $900 (shipped) for one of their 18.0 cabs. In the end I went with the eD cabs, for $450.
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post #293 of 325 Old 11-10-2012, 11:21 PM
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I was quoted $550 shipped for 6CF boxes. Even that is to expensive for my liking. I could just find a local guy to furniture finish my stuff for much cheaper.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #294 of 325 Old 11-11-2012, 04:34 AM
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Just to address that one statement: 'The super high-end'... it is even more fun to achieve reference-quality sound using DIY methods, which I have done. I've spent more than enough to buy a complete ultra-high-end stereo... I spent it on music and sound manipulation software. I would consider it a complete waste of money to buy any of the commercial subwoofers you have discussed. Give me a month (perhaps two) and I'll put together a sub that justifies the claims that have been made about DIY in terms of price, size and quality. I'm certain of it, despite never having 'heard' it. Budget is $2,000. There shall be a thread.
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The super high-end is fun to dream about, isn't it?

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post #295 of 325 Old 11-11-2012, 10:46 AM
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Give me a month (perhaps two) and I'll put together a sub that justifies the claims that have been made about DIY in terms of price, size and quality. I'm certain of it, despite never having 'heard' it. Budget is $2,000. There shall be a thread.

I'm completely down with that. But why $2000? My budget is half that (give or take just a bit). And we've got to compare apples to apples - equally compact (within reason) commercial quality finish, and an internal amp. One of my goals is to get rid of the external amp. I don't care if it's not a plate amp, as long as it's hidden in the box. And I really want a low voltage on/off (you know what I mean). All the other components in my system go on and off with my remote, and the subwoofer amp (9 times out of 10) doesn't get shut off. That feature is worth real money since the amp sits there eating up power 24/7 because no one remembers to shut it off.

So, you're saying that the Hsu or Rythmik is a waste of money @ $1000~$1100? Are you saying you can do better for that price? Or do you mean that a $1100 sub (DIY or otherwise) is a waste of money and you have to spend $2000 to make it worthwhile?
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post #296 of 325 Old 11-11-2012, 01:14 PM
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I didn't mean hypothetical sub, I've had an idea for an 18" cube for some time now. I had to gather the funds and get the wife's permission but I've got that worked out... and yeah at some point subwoofer addiction leads one to consider drivers that cost close to a thousand dollars plus the amps that can push them.
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I'm completely down with that. But why $2000? My budget is half that (give or take just a bit). And we've got to compare apples to apples - equally compact (within reason) commercial quality finish, and an internal amp. One of my goals is to get rid of the external amp. I don't care if it's not a plate amp, as long as it's hidden in the box. And I really want a low voltage on/off (you know what I mean). All the other components in my system go on and off with my remote, and the subwoofer amp (9 times out of 10) doesn't get shut off. That feature is worth real money since the amp sits there eating up power 24/7 because no one remembers to shut it off.
So, you're saying that the Hsu or Rythmik is a waste of money @ $1000~$1100? Are you saying you can do better for that price? Or do you mean that a $1100 sub (DIY or otherwise) is a waste of money and you have to spend $2000 to make it worthwhile?

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post #297 of 325 Old 11-11-2012, 01:34 PM
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I didn't mean hypothetical sub, I've had an idea for an 18" cube for some time now

I think that would be "hypothetical" then, right? Maybe I misunderstood that?
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and yeah at some point subwoofer addiction leads one to consider drivers that cost close to a thousand dollars plus the amps that can push them.

So, what are you saying exactly? I'm still a little confused about why $2000 to exceed an $1100 sub.
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post #298 of 325 Old 11-11-2012, 01:52 PM
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Yeah!!! That would be cool. I've had a Hsu VTF, but I'd love to hear the others. I'm about 2 - 3 hours from Fontana. I-5 north of Burbank about 1 hour. Thanks!
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post #299 of 325 Old 11-11-2012, 01:59 PM
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Yes hypothetical. Not a kit. Although there's nothing hypothetical about an 18" sealed cube as far as sub design goes...Just build it well, set the EQ. I will say this: it won't be one of the combinations that are so popular on this site.

The budget is $2,000 for one sub because I already know which driver I want to use and how many watts it'll take to push it, and that's how much it'll cost to get it done... yes that's what it'll take to improve on what I've got. If you read reviews of the paradigm Sub 2, everything that is described in the reviews is present in my current system. I want something beyond that. I've been wanting to add a monster 18" to my system, something dedicated to 8-32Hz. Something compact and attractive and truly world-class in capability. No spoilers, sorry.

I'm not even thinking about the subs you are talking about/considering buying.
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I think that would be "hypothetical" then, right? Maybe I misunderstood that?
So, what are you saying exactly? I'm still a little confused about why $2000 to exceed an $1100 sub.

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post #300 of 325 Old 11-11-2012, 03:24 PM
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I would consider it a complete waste of money to buy any of the commercial subwoofers you have discussed. Give me a month (perhaps two) and I'll put together a sub that justifies the claims that have been made about DIY in terms of price, size and quality. I'm certain of it, despite never having 'heard' it. Budget is $2,000. There shall be a thread.

You lost me. I thought you were going to outdo the subwoofers I had discussed. So now I don't know what "claims" you're talking about.
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I'm not even thinking about the subs you are talking about/considering buying.

If you were talking about competing with Hsu or Rythmik dollar for dollar, I'd be interested in seeing that. If you're just building a supersub for $2000, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove anymore.
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