So realistically, how do DIY flat kits sound compared to high dollar retail finished products? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I thought the DTS-10 was a kit again, when did it end?

yea, not an LLT, but a Tapped Horn, although, I thought it was back on as well!!!!

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post #182 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

Okay, but back to flat kits vs DIY... does anyone have direct comparisons of assembled flat kits vs commercial products? I'm glad that guys like their homemade subs. I'm not interested in engineering a sub from scratch, I just want to build a kit like the thread title says. Can anyone direct me to a KIT that will outperform a HSU 15" sub in sonics and aesthetics. No, I'm NOT interested in floor to ceiling sonotubes or massive boxes.
I looked at the Rythmik kits - they're not exactly "kits" since you have to supply your own materials for the cabinet. As near as I can tell, the closest match to the Hsu ULS15 is the E15 - roughly the same price retail. $1174 for the finished sub. It looks like the kit to build that sub runs $799. That leaves me with $375 for materials. The MDF, veneer, adhesives, finish, consummables etc will run - what? $150? So now I've saved $225, and I probably have an inferior cabinet and finish. Sounds like a break-even situation to me.
Oh, and if we're talking about the Hsu ULS15, it's a little cheaper than the Rythmik - $1099 WITH wireless! Now we're talking a savings of only $150 for DIY. And they advertise -1db @ 15hz in an 18" cube package!
There have been a lot of reads on this thread, so a lot of guys must be interested in the topic of DIY flat kits. To make it worthwhile, though, it looks like you'd have to go to a Dayton kit to save any significant bucks, and the question is, how does the sound compare with ready made subs like Hsu or Rythmik? The point of a flat kit is to come out with a finished product just as nice looking and compact as the factory finished product.

It's like you've mind-melded with me. Your exact concerns are why I'm probably going to end up purchasing the ULS15 (maybe 2). I can't seem to come up with an effective build with a small footprint, and a nice finish (oh yeah, and great low sound), that would compete with or better the ULS15. DIY subs must sound awesome, since so many build them, but it seems that unlimited size constraints, and/or the lack of wife acceptance factor certainly has an impact.
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post #183 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 11:51 AM
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It's like you've mind-melded with me. Your exact concerns are why I'm probably going to end up purchasing the ULS15 (maybe 2). I can't seem to come up with an effective build with a small footprint, and a nice finish (oh yeah, and great low sound), that would compete with or better the ULS15. DIY subs must sound awesome, since so many build them, but it seems that unlimited size constraints, and/or the lack of wife acceptance factor certainly has an impact.

You must not have been paying much attention then. The ULS is probably a capable system, and might look pretty, but give me $800 and I will build you something that will beat that ULS in every aspect of AUDIO completely senseless. Might not look as pretty but c'mon, while watching a movie or listening to music are you just sitting there staring at your sub or speaker? Nope, you are listening to it. I see all too many "pretty" builds that leave performance on the table due to aesthetic purposes. It's a travesty, a sham, and a mockery...A Travishamockery, or you could just refer to it as consumer audio if you wanted to.

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post #184 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 11:54 AM
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Yup. I can't see getting that dirty to save $150. Not unless I can make a better sounding AND better looking sub.
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post #185 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 12:15 PM
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It's not a question of 'if' DIY will sound better than this or that subwoofer, the question is how much better. That includes incredibly compact sealed subwoofers, not just big beasts. If furniture is what you are shopping for, knock yourself out and buy a commercial sub.
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Yup. I can't see getting that dirty to save $150. Not unless I can make a better sounding AND better looking sub.

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post #186 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

Yup. I can't see getting that dirty to save $150. Not unless I can make a better sounding AND better looking sub.

Of course you could, it is up to you to be able to finish the sub. Check out this DIY sub

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437069/the-blackhammer-2x18-sealed-sub

Of course you can throw in a cheaper single driver or duals of an 18 and have a much better sub with a nice finish. You need to install a plate amp if you want it powered from the back of the sub and not the rack.
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post #187 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 12:33 PM
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It's not a question of 'if' DIY will sound better than this or that subwoofer, the question is how much better. That includes incredibly compact sealed subwoofers, not just big beasts. If furniture is what you are shopping for, knock yourself out and buy a commercial sub.

So, any home made subwoofer sounds better than a commercial sub. Interesting and informative.
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Of course you could, it is up to you to be able to finish the sub. Check out this DIY sub

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437069/the-blackhammer-2x18-sealed-sub

Of course you can throw in a cheaper single driver or duals of an 18 and have a much better sub with a nice finish. You need to install a plate amp if you want it powered from the back of the sub and not the rack.

But the topic of this thread is flat kits, not if I could theroetically build a better sub than the pros.
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post #188 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 12:37 PM
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If furniture is what you are shopping for, knock yourself out and buy a commercial sub.

This is not my taste in decor:

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post #189 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

You must not have been paying much attention then. The ULS is probably a capable system, and might look pretty, but give me $800 and I will build you something that will beat that ULS in every aspect of AUDIO completely senseless. Might not look as pretty but c'mon, while watching a movie or listening to music are you just sitting there staring at your sub or speaker? Nope, you are listening to it. I see all too many "pretty" builds that leave performance on the table due to aesthetic purposes. It's a travesty, a sham, and a mockery...A Travishamockery, or you could just refer to it as consumer audio if you wanted to.

$800 that will beat the ULS, having the same dimensions as the ULS cabinet? You're right about it being consumer audio though...

Travishamockery biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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Of course you could, it is up to you to be able to finish the sub. Check out this DIY sub
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437069/the-blackhammer-2x18-sealed-sub
Of course you can throw in a cheaper single driver or duals of an 18 and have a much better sub with a nice finish. You need to install a plate amp if you want it powered from the back of the sub and not the rack.

That piano black finish is beautiful, but even that guy had professional help to finish it. I don't have a shop to cook on paint tongue.gif
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post #190 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

You must not have been paying much attention then. The ULS is probably a capable system, and might look pretty, but give me $800 and I will build you something that will beat that ULS in every aspect of AUDIO completely senseless. Might not look as pretty but c'mon, while watching a movie or listening to music are you just sitting there staring at your sub or speaker? Nope, you are listening to it. I see all too many "pretty" builds that leave performance on the table due to aesthetic purposes. It's a travesty, a sham, and a mockery...A Travishamockery, or you could just refer to it as consumer audio if you wanted to.
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The ULS is probably a capable system

So you've never actually heard it?
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but give me $800 and I will build you something that will beat that ULS in every aspect of AUDIO completely senseless.

Wow, really? Pretty ignorant considering you've never heard the ULS.
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Might not look as pretty but c'mon, while watching a movie or listening to music are you just sitting there staring at your sub or speaker?

When I'm watching a movie I'm listening to it AND looking at it. The rest of the time I'm only looking at it. Sorry, I'm not 18 anymore, and aesthetics are a deal breaker.

BTW, the topic is FLAT KITS, not if you can build a better subwoofer than Hsu, which I highly doubt.
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post #191 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

So, any home made subwoofer sounds better than a commercial sub. Interesting and informative.
But the topic of this thread is flat kits, not if I could theroetically build a better sub than the pros.

We DIYers don't reinvent the wheel, we use designs that have been built for years. A sealed subwoofer is not difficult. All the DSP and EQ can be done if you know what you ar doing. As for kits, maybe look into rythmik or DIYsoundgroup. The DTS-10 kit is the best value/performance ever but I would not put it in my living room. eD had a great kit but they are no more. Kits are far and few between but DIY is easy and you can have anyone build a box for you but the cost goes up.
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post #192 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

So you've never actually heard it?
Wow, really? Pretty ignorant considering you've never heard the ULS.
When I'm watching a movie I'm listening to it AND looking at it. The rest of the time I'm only looking at it. Sorry, I'm not 18 anymore, and aesthetics are a deal breaker.
BTW, the topic is FLAT KITS, not if you can build a better subwoofer than Hsu, which I highly doubt.

We don't have to hear the ULS to know it can easily be demolished in every way for the same money, thats the nature of DIY, you cut out the middle man and the time to build, thats where you save the money. It's not rocket science like you may think. Lots of guys on here, myself included, have build a heck of a lot of subs. Like MK said, most of the time is a proven design that we copy but with new drivers, there has to be someone to build it first. Mistakes get made, revisions get made and in the end, you have one hell of a sub for generally less than what any ID or B&M store can offer. remember, your time is where you save the money.

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post #193 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

So you've never actually heard it?
Wow, really? Pretty ignorant considering you've never heard the ULS.
When I'm watching a movie I'm listening to it AND looking at it. The rest of the time I'm only looking at it. Sorry, I'm not 18 anymore, and aesthetics are a deal breaker.
BTW, the topic is FLAT KITS, not if you can build a better subwoofer than Hsu, which I highly doubt.

I've heard the ULS. I saw several reviews of it on this GTG Thread.

I thought it was ok, but once you hear an extremely capable system (DIY or not) I think it will open your eyes (ears) to a totally new experience. I'm a DIY believer in the fact that (if you take the time to learn) you can literally work magic in the finishing department.

I personally do not like any "flat kits" available on the market. One could assemble a good kit that would trounce the HSU you speak of in the footprint that you require. Somehow, I get the impression that still wouldn't be good enough for you though.
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post #194 of 325 Old 11-07-2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

and aesthetics are a deal breaker.
Im thinking you're better off staying with a "ready built" sub. And/or possibly doing what I did and hiring someone to build you an enclosure, though at the price point youre looking at, that might not be cost effective.

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post #195 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 07:16 AM
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A more accurate statement is, there are countless ways to build an extreme performance subwoofer with DIY. Some are easy, like building a sealed 15" sub with 18" cube external dimensions (just like the Hsu ULS-15). Choose a proven design, a proven driver and a proven amp... make sure the driver and amp both out-spec the Hsu or whatever other commercial sub that needs to be 'thumped'. Stick the driver in a decent prefab box and you are done. It's so easy to do it's funny. So, unless a DIYer deliberately builds a bad subwoofer - usually by trying to re-invent the wheel - my statement stands. That's what I was trying to inform you.

Let's do one right here and now!

Dayton Audio SWC3-BK 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Gloss Black - $235
Dayton Audio SWC3-MA 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Maple
Dayton Audio SWC3-CH 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Cherry

TC Sounds Axis 15Q1 15" Quad VC Subwoofer -$495

Behringer NU3000DSP iNUKE 3000 -$399

Speaker cable - $15

Total cost of parts = $1150

Better driver and a more powerful amp....I'd reinforce the box with a bit more bracing and stuff a pillow's worth of polyfill in there, that's about it. You could swap out any number of super-powerful 15" drivers for the TC Sounds and still have a Hsu-killer for under $1,000

Assemble the sub. Run the Driver's voice coils in series for a 4.8 ohm load, run the iNuke 3000DSP bridged for 2,200 'real' RMS watts. Position sub. Set EQ and limiter. You're done. If you want to copy Hsu's tippy-top-of-the-line 'dual-drive', get an iNuke 6000DSP instead of the 3K for only $100 more, and build a second sub. BOOOM. For under 2 grand.
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

So, any home made subwoofer sounds better than a commercial sub. Interesting and informative.
But the topic of this thread is flat kits, not if I could theroetically build a better sub than the pros.

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post #196 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

A more accurate statement is, there are countless ways to build an extreme performance subwoofer with DIY. Some are easy, like building a sealed 15" sub with 18" cube external dimensions (just like the Hsu ULS-15). Choose a proven design, a proven driver and a proven amp... make sure the driver and amp both out-spec the Hsu or whatever other commercial sub that needs to be 'thumped'. Stick the driver in a decent prefab box and you are done. It's so easy to do it's funny. So, unless a DIYer deliberately builds a bad subwoofer - usually by trying to re-invent the wheel - my statement stands. That's what I was trying to inform you.
Let's do one right here and now!
Dayton Audio SWC3-BK 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Gloss Black - $235
Dayton Audio SWC3-MA 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Maple
Dayton Audio SWC3-CH 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Cherry
TC Sounds Axis 15Q1 15" Quad VC Subwoofer -$495
Behringer NU3000DSP iNUKE 3000 -$399
Speaker cable - $15
Total cost of parts = $1150
Better driver and a more powerful amp....I'd reinforce the box with a bit more bracing and stuff a pillow's worth of polyfill in there, that's about it. You could swap out any number of super-powerful 15" drivers for the TC Sounds and still have a Hsu-killer for under $1,000
Assemble the sub. Run the Driver's voice coils in series for a 4.8 ohm load, run the iNuke 3000DSP bridged for 2,200 'real' RMS watts. Position sub. Set EQ and limiter. You're done. If you want to copy Hsu's tippy-top-of-the-line 'dual-drive', get an iNuke 6000DSP instead of the 3K for only $100 more, and build a second sub. BOOOM. For under 2 grand.

Thanks for listing a build! I have been tweaking away at a parts list myself... I've decided that I might give that TC sub a try, and maybe even the iNUKE (hopefully the fan isn't horribly loud) too. This is what I may end up purchasing... and thankfully I'm in northern Cincinnati, so I can just drive to Dayton to pick this stuff up cool.gif

Behringer NU3000DSP iNUKE 3000 Watt Power Amplifier with DSP
Dayton Audio BPP-SN Premium Binding Post Pair Satin Nickel
Dayton Audio DSS4-BC Black Chrome Speaker Spike Set 4 Pcs.
Dayton Audio SBPP-BK Binding Post Plate Black Anodized
Dayton Audio SWC3-BK 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Gloss Black
TC Sounds Axis 15Q1 15" Quad VC Subwoofer

$1,069.94 with business discount (be sure to sign up if you guys have a business license #).
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post #197 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

 I've decided that I might give that TC sub a try, and maybe even the iNUKE (hopefully the fan isn't horribly loud) too.

 

Not too loud at a rock concert.rolleyes.gif

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post #198 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 09:06 AM
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Once you go big ported cab, you never go back. I'll never build another sealed sub. Better add some extra internal bracing. When that TC beast pushes 1.5" back into the sealed enclosure, I bet the walls are going to want to sing.
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post #199 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 09:35 AM
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A fan mod takes 5 minutes, costs less than 20 bucks and solves the noise problem completely.
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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

Thanks for listing a build! I have been tweaking away at a parts list myself... I've decided that I might give that TC sub a try, and maybe even the iNUKE (hopefully the fan isn't horribly loud) too. This is what I may end up purchasing... and thankfully I'm in northern Cincinnati, so I can just drive to Dayton to pick this stuff up cool.gif
Behringer NU3000DSP iNUKE 3000 Watt Power Amplifier with DSP
Dayton Audio BPP-SN Premium Binding Post Pair Satin Nickel
Dayton Audio DSS4-BC Black Chrome Speaker Spike Set 4 Pcs.
Dayton Audio SBPP-BK Binding Post Plate Black Anodized
Dayton Audio SWC3-BK 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Gloss Black
TC Sounds Axis 15Q1 15" Quad VC Subwoofer
$1,069.94 with business discount (be sure to sign up if you guys have a business license #).

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post #200 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 09:38 AM
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Thanks for the info. However, I wonder why, if its really as easy as putting together a parts list, would there be bad subwoofers in the world? If it's so easy to make a good one?

I wonder how many amp/cabinet/driver combinations a speaker manufacturer builds, tests, and tweaks before putting it out to market? Do you know of anyone who has built the "kit" you describe and has reviewed it compared with other similarly priced subs? Looks intriguing, but I'd like to know before I shell out the bucks for it.

The topic of the thread is flat kits vs finished products (and to be fair, you should say "similar finished product"). As far as I can tell from the threads I've been directed to, the only player in the flat kit game is the Daytons, and the impression I get is that they are not better than the Rythmik or Hsu similar product.

The point of the flat kit is that the finished product is a known quantity (as long as you assemble it well). You know what you'll get for your money.

In lieu of a "flat kit", can someone direct me to some good threads describing essentially the same thing - a build with parts list, less than $1,000, with plans, and listening reviews when finished comparing SQ with comparably priced finished subs? Essentially a tested and reviewed "virtual" kit?
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post #201 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 09:40 AM
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That's exactly what I suggested, extra bracing. Some folks just don't have the room for a big ported cabinet, plus those super-powerful motor subs are designed for small sealed cabinets. Since kilowatt + amps are affordable, it's just another option... when the pro-consumer folks start talking WAF and furniture-grade finishes this is the DIY approach I'd point them to.
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Once you go big ported cab, you never go back. I'll never build another sealed sub. Better add some extra internal bracing. When that TC beast pushes 1.5" back into the sealed enclosure, I bet the walls are going to want to sing.

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post #202 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 09:53 AM
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Here's the analogy I picture: a car builder. Every hot rod enthusiast thinks his creation is the best. Great. Glad you're having fun. But, when I want a Honda, do I spend 20G on a factory made car, or do I spend 20G on a car I made myself? I know subs are not cars, but building a good speaker is an art and a science, and lots of smart guys have been doing it for a long time and they're still making them so there must still be room for improvement after all these decades...
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post #203 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 10:02 AM
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I'm afraid not. A subwoofer is so much simpler than a car, the analogy doesn't hold up at all. I'd say building a hamburger... that makes a far better, more accurate analogy. You know there's no commercial hamburger that can stand up to what can be made at home. If anything, the subwoofer is easier. I'm hardly the first to point out, a subwoofer is not nearly as complex as a speaker and there is far less 'art' to it. The science is simple enough - if you survived middle school, you can handle the math involved.
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Here's the analogy I picture: a car builder. Every hot rod enthusiast thinks his creation is the best. Great. Glad you're having fun. But, when I want a Honda, do I spend 20G on a factory made car, or do I spend 20G on a car I made myself? I know subs are not cars, but building a good speaker is an art and a science, and lots of smart guys have been doing it for a long time and they're still making them so there must still be room for improvement after all these decades...

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post #204 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

Here's the analogy I picture: a car builder. Every hot rod enthusiast thinks his creation is the best. Great. Glad you're having fun. But, when I want a Honda, do I spend 20G on a factory made car, or do I spend 20G on a car I made myself? I know subs are not cars, but building a good speaker is an art and a science, and lots of smart guys have been doing it for a long time and they're still making them so there must still be room for improvement after all these decades...

No.
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post #205 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

Thanks for the info. However, I wonder why, if its really as easy as putting together a parts list, would there be bad subwoofers in the world? If it's so easy to make a good one?

I wonder how many amp/cabinet/driver combinations a speaker manufacturer builds, tests, and tweaks before putting it out to market? Do you know of anyone who has built the "kit" you describe and has reviewed it compared with other similarly priced subs? Looks intriguing, but I'd like to know before I shell out the bucks for it.

The topic of the thread is flat kits vs finished products (and to be fair, you should say "similar finished product"). As far as I can tell from the threads I've been directed to, the only player in the flat kit game is the Daytons, and the impression I get is that they are not better than the Rythmik or Hsu similar product.

The point of the flat kit is that the finished product is a known quantity (as long as you assemble it well). You know what you'll get for your money.

In lieu of a "flat kit", can someone direct me to some good threads describing essentially the same thing - a build with parts list, less than $1,000, with plans, and listening reviews when finished comparing SQ with comparably priced finished subs? Essentially a tested and reviewed "virtual" kit?

 

 

Its worth mentioning commercial subs are designed for maxium versatiity to be used in a wide array of rooms types and applications.  From variable tuning to Q controls on amps they are designed to be versatile and user friendly for newbs.  DIYers typically build the sub(speaker) system tailored to the room incorperating budget, room gain, aesthetics, SPL requirements, placement, power etc into the design.

 

Most of that testing tweaking etc you mention(IMHO) is geared toward getting the most out of a set pricepoint of components.  Its not typically making better and better components just squeezing the juice out of what the design's pricepoint can produce.  Yes maybe a db or two here or there but all that tweaking and testing is incorperated into the price of the sub(speaker) you buy its not free.  Me, I'd rather buy a few extra drivers/amps/enclosures with my $$ and all the benefits that go with that than have a lower number of more highly refined subs that cost more, just my opinion though.

 

Check out Archaea's thread full of DIY folks willing to demo their stuff, demo stuff in your pricepoint DIY and Commercial.

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post #206 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Im thinking you're better off staying with a "ready built" sub. And/or possibly doing what I did and hiring someone to build you an enclosure, though at the price point youre looking at, that might not be cost effective.

+1

Everyone has a different reason for getting into DIY and you have to find that reason for your-self. Looks like you have convinced your-self that DIY is not for you and there is nothing wrong with that.

HSU makes fine subwoofers and I have owned some of there products in the past. I have owned a lot of commercial subwoofers in the past, most with performance well above the HSU sub you mentioned but I get better performance with DIY. Manufacturer's have a lot of limitations they have to factor in but with DIY you can set your own limitations and really surpass commercial subs easily but it is not always less expensive.

Sometimes people get into DIY to save money, I did initially when I wanted more SPL from my JL Audio Fathom F113 but didn't want to spend $6K for another pair. I know edogg has surpassed the performance of a 6 pack of JL Audio Fathom's with his quad LMS Ultra's and he saved a lot more than half but it is still a chunk of change.

DIY is for a very small percentage of audio enthusiasts but it can be extremely rewarding if it is something you enjoy.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #207 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 10:20 AM
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Where are all these bad subwoofers you refer to? They are cheap commercial subs where cost-cutting was about the only thing engineers did. You are dreaming if you think sub builders are maintaining some huge R&D department at the expense of their marketing department... whose salaries - plus the advertising they buy - are what you really pay for when you buy commercial.

It's absurd to pretend there's something more to it.

The absolute best analogy I can think of is building your own desktop PC. DIY yields a better product per dollar than all the big guys do - IBM, HP, Dell, etc. - My DIY HTPC is the primary sound-source for my DIY speakers and my DIY subs. The main thing to know about DIY is almost everybody who's into it owned commercial products at one point or another, so it's useless to argue as if DIY folks have no clue what commercial subwoofers are capable of.
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Originally Posted by Puppetboy View Post

Thanks for the info. However, I wonder why, if its really as easy as putting together a parts list, would there be bad subwoofers in the world? If it's so easy to make a good one?
I wonder how many amp/cabinet/driver combinations a speaker manufacturer builds, tests, and tweaks before putting it out to market? Do you know of anyone who has built the "kit" you describe and has reviewed it compared with other similarly priced subs? Looks intriguing, but I'd like to know before I shell out the bucks for it.
The topic of the thread is flat kits vs finished products (and to be fair, you should say "similar finished product"). As far as I can tell from the threads I've been directed to, the only player in the flat kit game is the Daytons, and the impression I get is that they are not better than the Rythmik or Hsu similar product.
The point of the flat kit is that the finished product is a known quantity (as long as you assemble it well). You know what you'll get for your money.
In lieu of a "flat kit", can someone direct me to some good threads describing essentially the same thing - a build with parts list, less than $1,000, with plans, and listening reviews when finished comparing SQ with comparably priced finished subs? Essentially a tested and reviewed "virtual" kit?

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post #208 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post


Its worth mentioning commercial subs are designed for maxium versatiity to be used in a wide array of rooms types and applications.  From variable tuning to Q controls on amps they are designed to be versatile and user friendly for newbs.  DIYers typically build the sub(speaker) system tailored to the room incorperating budget, room gain, aesthetics, SPL requirements, placement, power etc into the design.

Most of that testing tweaking etc you mention(IMHO) is geared toward getting the most out of a set pricepoint of components.  Its not typically making better and better components just squeezing the juice out of what the design's pricepoint can produce.  Yes maybe a db or two here or there but all that tweaking and testing is incorperated into the price of the sub(speaker) you buy its not free.  Me, I'd rather buy a few extra drivers/amps/enclosures with my $$ and all the benefits that go with that than have a lower number of more highly refined subs that cost more, just my opinion though.

Check out Archaea's thread full of DIY folks willing to demo their stuff, demo stuff in your pricepoint DIY and Commercial.

Totally agree with you there. I'm thinking of using the Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF instead of the pricey TC to save some bucks. Glowing reviews for that driver too, and I can't complain about the price. The TC seems a bit strange to me... when you look at the woofer selection guide the specs make me weary. 1.1 ft³ sealed box? 50hz sealed F3?

Anyway, the Dayton makes my wallet less sore, which could mean a 2nd sub in the future. Now I just need to find a decent amp as I think the iNUKE 3000 may be more than I need...
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post #209 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 10:48 AM
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I'm guessing the specs make you wary, not weary. That's simple, the driver is capable of operating in such a restricted airspace, but it's not a necessity. A larger sealed box or a vented design will lower the power requirement and the F3 point, until you reach the point where excursion is the limitation, not power - designs where the Dayton driver could make more sense because the TC's motor is there for one reason, to allow it to operate in a very small box. The trick is to reach controlled maximum excursion with any given driver, how you get there is where all the fun is at.

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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

Totally agree with you there. I'm thinking of using the Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF instead of the pricey TC to save some bucks. Glowing reviews for that driver too, and I can't complain about the price. The TC seems a bit strange to me... when you look at the woofer selection guide the specs make me weary. 1.1 ft³ sealed box? 50hz sealed F3?
Anyway, the Dayton makes my wallet less sore, which could mean a 2nd sub in the future. Now I just need to find a decent amp as I think the iNUKE 3000 may be more than I need...

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post #210 of 325 Old 11-08-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I'm guessing the specs make you wary, not weary. That's simple, the driver is capable of operating in such a restricted airspace, but it's not a necessity. A larger sealed box or a vented design will lower the power requirement and the F3 point, until you reach the point where excursion is the limitation, not power - designs where the Dayton driver could make more sense because the TC's motor is there for one reason, to allow it to operate in a very small box. The trick is to reach controlled maximum excursion with any given driver, how you get there is where all the fun is at.

So what is the proper way to get there without under powering, or blowing a driver? This whole thing makes me weary wink.gif
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