Sealed box for IXL-18 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 10-20-2012, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I've got an IXL-18.4 that I'd like to put to work. I spoke with Mark from IST this morning and he suggested 4 cu ft for a sealed enclosure with an amp that has an adjustable boost to compensate for not using a tuned vented enclosure. I'm thinking about sealed and keeping the amp separate because I don't have much woodworking experience.

Are there disadvantages to down firing or would a side firing design be better?

I'm thinking about using a Dayton SPA-500 because it's relatively cheap, available from Solen (Parts Express shipping to Canada is ridiculously expensive) and it has an adjustable parametric EQ. Am I on the right track?
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post #2 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 07:11 AM
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Yes.

You guys are crazy....
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post #3 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

I've got an IXL-18.4 that I'd like to put to work. I spoke with Mark from IST this morning and he suggested 4 cu ft for a sealed enclosure with an amp that has an adjustable boost to compensate for not using a tuned vented enclosure. I'm thinking about sealed and keeping the amp separate because I don't have much woodworking experience.
Sounds fine.
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Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

Are there disadvantages to down firing or would a side firing design be better?
Both work fine.
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Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

I'm thinking about using a Dayton SPA-500 because it's relatively cheap, available from Solen (Parts Express shipping to Canada is ridiculously expensive) and it has an adjustable parametric EQ. Am I on the right track?
A single bandpass parametric EQ will probably not be enough, so the amp might not be the best choice.
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post #4 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mrogowski View Post

Yes.

Thanks for the reply Mark. Do you mean yes, a side firing design would be better or yes, I'm on the right track?
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post #5 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Sounds fine.
Both work fine.
A single bandpass parametric EQ will probably not be enough, so the amp might not be the best choice.

Do you have any other amp recommendations that are in the same ballpark for price?
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post #6 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

Do you have any other amp recommendations that are in the same ballpark for price?
Nope, for two reasons.
1: I don't like or use plate amps. Because of this I don't track prices or availability of units just look when mentioned.
2: Am of the view that a tool that does not do the job it's required for is nearly useless.

I forgot to mention earlier, it's well underpowered if you want to use the IXL to it's capacity.
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post #7 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Nope, for two reasons.
1: I don't like or use plate amps. Because of this I don't track prices or availability of units just look when mentioned.
2: Am of the view that a tool that does not do the job it's required for is nearly useless.
I forgot to mention earlier, it's well underpowered if you want to use the IXL to it's capacity.

I guess maybe I should adjust my thinking. My original goal was to spend less than $500 and end up with something that works better than what's available in a big-box store for that price. A Klipsch RPW-10 or an Energy POWER12, for example. I thought that would be attainable by using a good quality speaker, an amp with more than double the power and a basic but well built box. I'm not looking for audio perfection but maybe I would be better off with a store bought package if there's no middle ground between that and the more expensive DIY options.
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post #8 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

I guess maybe I should adjust my thinking. My original goal was to spend less than $500 and end up with something that works better than what's available in a big-box store for that price. A Klipsch RPW-10 or an Energy POWER12, for example. I thought that would be attainable by using a good quality speaker, an amp with more than double the power and a basic but well built box. I'm not looking for audio perfection but maybe I would be better off with a store bought package if there's no middle ground between that and the more expensive DIY options.

Practically anything you build will surpass the little fart boxes at the stores bro. If $500 is your limit, get the 500 watt unit, build the box, throw it in the corner and enjoy. Down-firing or front-firing, it doesn't matter too much. if you plan to have it downward firing just make sure there is sufficient distance between floor and box. You can accomplish this through listening tests.

You guys are crazy....
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post #9 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 06:03 PM
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post #10 of 40 Old 10-21-2012, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I found a local music store that's selling the Behringer EP2000 for $310 which is way cheaper than the best I could find online after shipping was included. I might go that way if I can figure out how to handle the EQ and crossover stuff.

Can a DSP1124P be used without a mic and measurements to do the basic stuff like a high pass some basic EQing? Are there cheaper options for those tasks?
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post #11 of 40 Old 10-22-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

I guess maybe I should adjust my thinking. My original goal was to spend less than $500 and end up with something that works better than what's available in a big-box store for that price. A Klipsch RPW-10 or an Energy POWER12, for example. I thought that would be attainable by using a good quality speaker, an amp with more than double the power and a basic but well built box. I'm not looking for audio perfection but maybe I would be better off with a store bought package if there's no middle ground between that and the more expensive DIY options.
DIY is not for cheap generally as you can never beat the big manufacturer's economy of scale etc. What you can do is get better performance at somewhat above their prices, but where that knee point is varies between people and how they're willing to approach it. For example, the best price I can do an EP locally is about $200 more than what you said.

I'd rather new DIYers came out with a great project first time rather than one that is a big compromise and puts them off future projects or leaves them feeling they wasted money on this one. IMO that Dayton amp is a poor choice and even buying it as a stop gap and getting the EP and MD later would cause a loss on the Dayton and more expense than saving a bit and completing this later. but that's my preferred approach - do it once, do it right.

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Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

I might go that way if I can figure out how to handle the EQ and crossover stuff.
Can a DSP1124P be used without a mic and measurements to do the basic stuff like a high pass some basic EQing? Are there cheaper options for those tasks?
A MiniDSP balanced would be a better option as it can doe the HPF, which the Behringer can't. Similar-ish money I think.
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post #12 of 40 Old 10-22-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan the cdn View Post

I found a local music store that's selling the Behringer EP2000 for $310 which is way cheaper than the best I could find online after shipping was included. I might go that way if I can figure out how to handle the EQ and crossover stuff.
Can a DSP1124P be used without a mic and measurements to do the basic stuff like a high pass some basic EQing? Are there cheaper options for those tasks?

Cheaper? Yes. Look at used equipment. There's a lot of great stuff you can snag on the cheap that is every bit as good as new. If your budget is $500 stick to it. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to spend X amount of money to achieve your goal. They don't know what your goals are - only you. 500 - 1000 watts is enough for that driver. You don't need 2kw. I cannot answer on the finer details behind the unit you mention, but I can tell you the 2496 I had was fully configurable without any kind of mic or software.

Oh, and make sure you have fun doing it too smile.gif

You guys are crazy....
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post #13 of 40 Old 10-22-2012, 11:30 PM
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Cheaper? Yes. Look at used equipment. There's a lot of great stuff you can snag on the cheap that is every bit as good as new.
Show me a second hand sealed sub for $500 that can move 2.2L of air.
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500 - 1000 watts is enough for that driver. You don't need 2kw.
On what do you base that? EQing to get a sealed enclosure with an F3 around 35Hz flat to 20 or lower is going to need quite a bit of power.
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I cannot answer on the finer details behind the unit you mention, but I can tell you the 2496 I had was fully configurable without any kind of mic or software.
Which one? The DEQ has lots of EQ, but can't do LPF/HPF and the DCX can do both. The basic MD doesn't have quite the capability of the DCX, but is 1/2 the price, and what features it gives up, aren't needed here.
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post #14 of 40 Old 10-23-2012, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Show me a second hand sealed sub for $500 that can move 2.2L of air. On what do you base that? EQing to get a sealed enclosure with an F3 around 35Hz flat to 20 or lower is going to need quite a bit of power. Which one? The DEQ has lots of EQ, but can't do LPF/HPF and the DCX can do both. The basic MD doesn't have quite the capability of the DCX, but is 1/2 the price, and what features it gives up, aren't needed here.

I'm not sure what you mean about the used portion of your post. The guy says he has a $500 budget. He already owns the driver. He is looking for options, so I'm suggesting some. I'm suggesting he look in the used department for something that he could use. Is there something wrong with that?

The driver is rated for 800 watts. It has a very compliant suspension. It does not take much power to get it moving. The last thing I would want to see happen is for the driver to blow from over powering. Hence my suggestion for 500-1000 watts. I design and build the IXL-18. I think I know the limits of the driver.
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post #15 of 40 Old 10-23-2012, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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... I design and build the IXL-18. ...
Quoted for relevance.
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post #16 of 40 Old 10-23-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrogowski View Post

I'm not sure what you mean about the used portion of your post. The guy says he has a $500 budget. He already owns the driver. He is looking for options, so I'm suggesting some. I'm suggesting he look in the used department for something that he could use. Is there something wrong with that?
The driver is rated for 800 watts. It has a very compliant suspension. It does not take much power to get it moving. The last thing I would want to see happen is for the driver to blow from over powering. Hence my suggestion for 500-1000 watts. I design and build the IXL-18. I think I know the limits of the driver.

I have to say, I was waiting for that one. beauty! biggrin.gif

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post #17 of 40 Old 10-23-2012, 04:14 PM
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When is the IXL18 coming back?

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post #18 of 40 Old 10-23-2012, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrogowski View Post

I'm not sure what you mean about the used portion of your post. The guy says he has a $500 budget. He already owns the driver. He is looking for options, so I'm suggesting some. I'm suggesting he look in the used department for something that he could use. Is there something wrong with that?
There are no second hand (complete) subs I know for $500 with the capability of the IXL is what I meant. As he already has the driver an EP2500 and an MD will be about $450 or so so add some wood and glue, and he's under $500.
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The driver is rated for 800 watts. It has a very compliant suspension. It does not take much power to get it moving. The last thing I would want to see happen is for the driver to blow from over powering. Hence my suggestion for 500-1000 watts. I design and build the IXL-18. I think I know the limits of the driver.
Oh, I see. Your driver then doesn't follow the same physics others so, or can't I trust it's ratings.

The likelihood of it seeing 800W continuous for any period is unlikely, so the coil/former is unlikely to fail from thermal issues in any sort of normal use domestically. With the 2kW that an EP2500 has been tested to output (bridge 4R) and a single pole 17Hz LPF it models out nicely to take 2kW in the 120L sealed enclosure already discussed not exceeding Xmax by much.

CBExcursionMach5IXL18.gif

Most people would not use full power, ever, and having it to hand allows other EQing options that would allow boosting in certain bands and still never have the amp voltage clip nor exceed Xmax.
So under what circumstances is it likely to 'blow' given the above and a sober, sane adult running it?
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post #19 of 40 Old 10-24-2012, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
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The likelihood of it seeing 800W continuous for any period is unlikely, so the coil/former is unlikely to fail from thermal issues in any sort of normal use domestically. With the 2kW that an EP2500 has been tested to output (bridge 4R) and a single pole 17Hz LPF it models out nicely to take 2kW in the 120L sealed enclosure already discussed not exceeding Xmax by much.

Most people would not use full power, ever, and having it to hand allows other EQing options that would allow boosting in certain bands and still never have the amp voltage clip nor exceed Xmax.
So under what circumstances is it likely to 'blow' given the above and a sober, sane adult running it?

Listen, you can sit there and run your little simulator all you want. Until you load the driver in a box and test it in real world conditions, you will just have to trust what it is I am recommending. It is up to you if you want to keep kicking this horse, but I will not be a part of it.

The bolded part actually gets me. If people would not use full power ever, then why pay extra for something that will never be used?

Man, the testosterone in this forum is unbelievable...rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif
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You guys are crazy....
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post #20 of 40 Old 10-24-2012, 06:07 AM
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mrogowski... I agree. This place is unreal!
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post #21 of 40 Old 10-24-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrogowski View Post

Listen, you can sit there and run your little simulator all you want. Until you load the driver in a box and test it in real world conditions, you will just have to trust what it is I am recommending. It is up to you if you want to keep kicking this horse, but I will not be a part of it.
Because the sim I use has shown itself to be accurate over many years and you say it's wrong, that's proof right? No.

As it's not published, what is the Xmech of the IXL18? You should know, right?
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The bolded part actually gets me. If people would not use full power ever, then why pay extra for something that will never be used?
Because they might not, does not mean they won't sometimes. Why do people have 400hp cars when probably 50 will do the job? Because sometimes, some of them will use most/all the power.

It also allows flexibility in EQing as I stated before. You think it is such an expensive overpriced amp? Really? Where do you find that sort of honest power cheaper than $310 in his hand? An EP1500/2000 would also do fine and would probably be a bit cheaper, or not depending on the store.
The main point of the separate amp was to allow the use of the separate EQ in the MD. It's not like I suggested a Krell.
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Pot, meet kettle.
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post #22 of 40 Old 10-24-2012, 01:33 PM
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It is ok to judge by using your ears... Lots of simulators and the like talk wise. In the end it is all about something sounding good
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post #23 of 40 Old 10-24-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
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Because the sim I use has shown itself to be accurate over many years and you say it's wrong, that's proof right? No.
As it's not published, what is the Xmech of the IXL18? You should know, right?
Because they might not, does not mean they won't sometimes. Why do people have 400hp cars when probably 50 will do the job? Because sometimes, some of them will use most/all the power.
It also allows flexibility in EQing as I stated before. You think it is such an expensive overpriced amp? Really? Where do you find that sort of honest power cheaper than $310 in his hand? An EP1500/2000 would also do fine and would probably be a bit cheaper, or not depending on the store.
The main point of the separate amp was to allow the use of the separate EQ in the MD. It's not like I suggested a Krell.
Pot, meet kettle.

Pleased to meet you Mr. Pot.

You got **** for brains bro? The driver is rated for 800 watts. I suggested an amp from 500-1000 watts of power. What part of this do you not understand?

You guys are crazy....
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post #24 of 40 Old 10-24-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
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Because the sim I use has shown itself to be accurate over many years and you say it's wrong, that's proof right? No.
As it's not published, what is the Xmech of the IXL18? You should know, right?
Because they might not, does not mean they won't sometimes. Why do people have 400hp cars when probably 50 will do the job? Because sometimes, some of them will use most/all the power.
It also allows flexibility in EQing as I stated before. You think it is such an expensive overpriced amp? Really? Where do you find that sort of honest power cheaper than $310 in his hand? An EP1500/2000 would also do fine and would probably be a bit cheaper, or not depending on the store.
The main point of the separate amp was to allow the use of the separate EQ in the MD. It's not like I suggested a Krell.
Pot, meet kettle.

It's been proven time and time again, the simulators are not 100% and in some cases are pretty out to lunch. I love the fact you are arguing with the guy who designed and builds the drivers. rolleyes.gif

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post #25 of 40 Old 10-25-2012, 03:15 AM
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How does the Dayton 1000watt plate amp perform compared to a Behringer EP-1500? Does the Behringer put out more power?
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post #26 of 40 Old 10-25-2012, 10:30 AM
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I'll try my damndest to not be goaded into a silly argument that basically contends that 500 watts into this driver in a proper cabinet won't produce fantastic results, but I WILL contend that you can do a great DIY that bests comparably priced commercial and even ID subs...check my thread. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433137/from-endless-contemplation-to-fruition-james-first-diy-18-sub-how-low-can-you-go-wise

Yep, I had the amp, but throw the $250 driver into a properly-constructed cabinet made with a $40 sheet of furn-grade plywood and add this amp: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-809 and show me what $5-600 (SHIPPED) ID sub will compete with it.

Now, I'm not saying it's going to walk all over them, but I'm pretty confident you'll see more output and extension from it than the ~5-$600 ID offerings...what few there are, anyway.


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post #27 of 40 Old 10-25-2012, 10:58 AM
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i haven't read the entire thread, but it appears that there is some debate around alpha niner's suggestion of a pro amp and external eq vs. a plate amp for a sealed ixl application.

most plate amps have a built in 2nd order high pass filter around 20hz, so don't expect much of anything below around 20hz.

without eq, that further means that the ixl 4 cubic foot sealed sub is going to be 12db or so down at 20hz as compared with the 80hz point, so now most of the 20-30hz region will be missing too.

a plate amp with 6db "boost" around 20-25hz will help and that can also be done with a plate amp with a parametric eq, but even that may not be sufficient for a flat response.

to the extent that folks who build sealed subs are often looking for 20hz or lower performance, alpha niner's suggestion is almost certaintly the way to go.

"How does the Dayton 1000watt plate amp perform compared to a Behringer EP-1500? Does the Behringer put out more power?"

the biggest drawback in my estimation is the non-defeatable high pass filter in the plate amps, see above.

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post #28 of 40 Old 10-26-2012, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I found a good deal on a Dayton SA1000 so I'm going to build a sealed box for the sub and see how it sounds compared to the 8" Paradigm I'm using now.
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post #29 of 40 Old 10-26-2012, 11:18 AM
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Those dayton amps are decent enough. Good find. That will rock that IXL in your box. You gonna be all smiles once you realize how much better it is than the 8.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #30 of 40 Old 11-01-2012, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a quick progress update.

My attempt at a sketch. After taking into account the double front baffle, bracing and the displacement of the sub it leaves me with very close to 4 cu ft.
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I found a helpful person at Home Depot to make the cuts.
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Last night I glued the double front baffle together and two of the side panels together. Then I sketched out the bracing, cut it out (jigsaws are the worst) and glued it together.

8145212936_c7f664e3fa_b.jpg

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8145181483_6d591bd068_b.jpg


I'll post more pictures as the rest goes together.
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