First DIY project for a guy looking to upgrade - multiple sealed 18s? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1010 Old 12-12-2012, 07:25 PM
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Rilla what all is in your subwoofer signal chain at the moment?

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post #632 of 1010 Old 12-12-2012, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Rilla what all is in your subwoofer signal chain at the moment?

I was just about to post this since I knew you would ask, lol.

Denon 4311, Sony ps3, minidsp, LG clone.
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post #633 of 1010 Old 12-12-2012, 08:30 PM
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post #634 of 1010 Old 12-13-2012, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I was just about to post this since I knew you would ask, lol.
Denon 4311, Sony ps3, minidsp, LG clone.
Substitute an Oppo-93 for the PS3 & an SMS for the mini and we got the same chain. Hhhmmm........
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post #635 of 1010 Old 12-13-2012, 05:51 AM
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Meh. smile.gif

Looking good!!
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post #636 of 1010 Old 12-13-2012, 11:38 AM
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Substitute an Oppo-93 for the PS3 & an SMS for the mini and we got the same chain. Hhhmmm........

Same signal chain but not the same room which can make a huge difference, Gorilla probably just has a lot more room gain down low.

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post #637 of 1010 Old 12-16-2012, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So Box #3 is ready for the drivers and Box #4 is in the finishing stages. Austin (popalock) actually constructed the last box for use in yesterday's GTG. He had been attempting to procure 2 of the new SI 18's but unfortunately those did not get to us in time for the test. The good news is that he built it to my specs so that I could use it after the day was done. Thanks Austin! biggrin.gif

Tonight I've started on the finishing process. The roundovers are done, and I've started sanding and filling in some voids that were present on the edges.



The next 4 drivers were ordered this morning. I'm hoping to have these boxes finished, alive, and kicking in another 7-10 days. I hope PE is half as good with delivery as they were last time!
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post #638 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Props again to parts express, my drivers are scheduled for delivery tomorrow. biggrin.gif My schedule is super tight through the end of the weekend, but with any luck I should have finished and up and running early next week. tongue.gif

Christmas bass, anyone? biggrin.gif
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post #639 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 10:30 AM
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That drop at 6hz is your mic's fault. Mine did the same exact thing. Do you have the newest version that is supposed to go to 5hz per mic(corrected) rather than the general 5hz version?

When all this is said and done and you have 8 drivers and 14000 watts on tap all for less than a pair of submersives and or Caps(I use them because everyone says they are the best) let me know how DIY compares to commercial. Those are two of the best commercial offerings and a pair of each are over $4000. I try to tell people all the time it is not fair comparing DIY to commercial but they do and still say commercial wins at times. I say not if it is done right. I always get" but you are comparing 12 drivers to 4" but I say they are the same price. Here is how I look at it, at one GTG they compared a submersive, dual Caps, a CHT 18.2, and others. The CHT 18.2 cost about $1200 with amp and it scored close to the Cap and submersives. For some reason these GTG's always compare way more expensive commercial offerings to less expensive DIY setups. I think this is because they compared duals to duals or one to one which would never be fair comparing prices. So I wanted to compare myself but rather than keeping a fair one to one subs I compared a one to one in price. So I compared dual Cap1000's at $3000 to 4 18.2's with clone at $3200. To me it was not even close except sound quality.(I still love the caps sound and size for a ported 18, damn impressive!). Now I bought better drivers and better cabinets with even more power and for $3800 I would love to see duals compared to what I have. I say this with confidence because I owned dual DTS-10's as well which were awesome and they don't have a chance to compete because these have more spl and full bandwidth to boot.

Anyways, you ordering 4 more drivers says it all right there!

BTW, I don't even know why I posted that.
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post #640 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

When all this is said and done and you have 8 drivers and 14000 watts on tap all for less than a pair of submersives and or Caps(I use them because everyone says they are the best) let me know how DIY compares to commercial. Those are two of the best commercial offerings and a pair of each are over $4000. I try to tell people all the time it is not fair comparing DIY to commercial but they do and still say commercial wins at times. I say not if it is done right. I always get" but you are comparing 12 drivers to 4" but I say they are the same price. Here is how I look at it, at one GTG they compared a submersive, dual Caps, a CHT 18.2, and others. The CHT 18.2 cost about $1200 with amp and it scored close to the Cap and submersives. For some reason these GTG's always compare way more expensive commercial offerings to less expensive DIY setups. I think this is because they compared duals to duals or one to one which would never be fair comparing prices. So I wanted to compare myself but rather than keeping a fair one to one subs I compared a one to one in price. So I compared dual Cap1000's at $3000 to 4 18.2's with clone at $3200. To me it was not even close except sound quality.(I still love the caps sound and size for a ported 18, damn impressive!). Now I bought better drivers and better cabinets with even more power and for $3800 I would love to see duals compared to what I have. I say this with confidence because I owned dual DTS-10's as well which were awesome and they don't have a chance to compete because these have more spl and full bandwidth to boot.
Anyways, you ordering 4 more drivers says it all right there!

BTW, I don't even know why I posted that.

Because you can, g'dammit! cool.gif
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post #641 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That drop at 6hz is your mic's fault. Mine did the same exact thing. Do you have the newest version that is supposed to go to 5hz per mic(corrected) rather than the general 5hz version?
When all this is said and done and you have 8 drivers and 14000 watts on tap all for less than a pair of submersives and or Caps(I use them because everyone says they are the best) let me know how DIY compares to commercial. Those are two of the best commercial offerings and a pair of each are over $4000. I try to tell people all the time it is not fair comparing DIY to commercial but they do and still say commercial wins at times. I say not if it is done right. I always get" but you are comparing 12 drivers to 4" but I say they are the same price. Here is how I look at it, at one GTG they compared a submersive, dual Caps, a CHT 18.2, and others. The CHT 18.2 cost about $1200 with amp and it scored close to the Cap and submersives. For some reason these GTG's always compare way more expensive commercial offerings to less expensive DIY setups. I think this is because they compared duals to duals or one to one which would never be fair comparing prices. So I wanted to compare myself but rather than keeping a fair one to one subs I compared a one to one in price. So I compared dual Cap1000's at $3000 to 4 18.2's with clone at $3200. To me it was not even close except sound quality.(I still love the caps sound and size for a ported 18, damn impressive!). Now I bought better drivers and better cabinets with even more power and for $3800 I would love to see duals compared to what I have. I say this with confidence because I owned dual DTS-10's as well which were awesome and they don't have a chance to compete because these have more spl and full bandwidth to boot.
Anyways, you ordering 4 more drivers says it all right there!
BTW, I don't even know why I posted that.

LOL, MK.

I have the latest omnimic, V2. From their site they claim it is calibrated to 5hz, but who knows. I'm sure I also have other stuff in my chain rolling off around this same level too as well.

As for DIY vs. commercial - After hearing the two dual opposed enclosures for the first time, I was immediately hooked. This past Saturday at our mini-GTG we played the Cap ported pair followed by a pair of the 18 sealed dual opposed setup. From the comments I heard I think most of the group was very impressed. I was excited to get some outside comments as up until that point I was the only one from AVS that had heard them. As far as value - you simply cannot beat it. I just referenced my spreadsheet which I used to track cost for the stuff I build. I have 2500 total into the subs (625 per sub) and 850 into the clone amp for a grand total of 3350 for 4 dual opposed cabinets and a massively powerful amplifier. This includes full finishing and every last material that went into the build like sandpaper, glue, screws, polyfil, wire, and duratex, including all shipping costs. About the same price as a Cap S2 with shipping I'd imagine? I do have a decent amount of labor into them, but it's all good fun to me. I also have a lot of leftovers like extra wood, screws, paint, etc for use in future projects. At the next GTG I'd be happy to see how they compare to any commercial offering someone would like to bring.
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post #642 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 01:39 PM
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Gorilla, how many cubic feet are your enclosures without the divers? im coming up with 7ft^ without drivers for mine with the blocking and recessed baffles.

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post #643 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Gorilla, how many cubic feet are your enclosures without the divers? im coming up with 7ft^ without drivers for mine with the blocking and recessed baffles.

I get 7.53 cu feet gross and 6.92 net assuming .14 cu ft for bracing and .45 cu for drivers. It might actually be slightly less than this but close.
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post #644 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 01:49 PM
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I get 7.53 cu feet gross and 6.92 net assuming .14 cu ft for bracing and .45 cu ft per driver. It might actually be slightly less than this but close.

you think i should increase my dimensions a little bit to get up another 1/2 cubic inch?

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post #645 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 01:54 PM
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nevermind. i was calculating bracing wrong. im getting 6.32 net with drivers and bracing. close enough?

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post #646 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
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Heres what i got:

Box Width 23 Inches
Box Height 25 Inches
Box Depth 27.25 Inches
Material Thickness .75 Inches
Bracing Volume 528.25 Inches3 (101.25 of that is the blocking)
Port Volume 0 Inches3
Driver Volume .45 Ft3
Number of Drivers 2 Total
Total Net Volume 6.323 Ft3
Total Net Volume 179.057 Liters

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post #647 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 02:38 PM
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i get this for the bracing

Brace Width 21.5 Inches
Brace Height 23.5 Inches
Brace Thickness 1.5 Inches (two .75" thick braces)
Cutout Diameter 16.75 Inches
Number of Cutouts 1 Total

Total Brace Volume 427.345

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post #648 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The size is up to you man. I opted to make mine slightly smaller since I'm feeding them a fair amount of power. I'll take a bit extra protection over the extra fraction of a decibel output. My bracing cutouts are just under 19", but that isn't going to make a huge amount of difference.
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post #649 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

The size is up to you man. I opted to make mine slightly smaller since I'm feeding them a fair amount of power. I'll take a bit extra protection over the extra fraction of a decibel output. My bracing cutouts are just under 19", but that isn't going to make a huge amount of difference.


i beileive your net with those numbers is 6.489(6.5). not sure your accounting for all the bracing though. i think your net is actually 6.43. im sure im splitting hairs big time here, but im not familiar with this kind of stuff so im just making sure im doing it right. If your net is 6.43 and mine is 6.37, i would call that close enough huh! tongue.gif

edit: i hope you dont think im nit picking. im just making sure we have the correct info for how you achieved these great results so they can be duplicated correctly.

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post #650 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

i beileive your net with those numbers is 6.489(6.5). not sure your accounting for all the bracing though. i think your net is actually 6.43. im sure im splitting hairs big time here, but im not familiar with this kind of stuff so im just making sure im doing it right. If your net is 6.43 and mine is 6.37, i would call that close enough huh! tongue.gif
edit: i hope you dont think im nit picking. im just making sure we have the correct info for how you achieved these great results so they can be duplicated correctly.

Correctly is all relative. As Gorilla stated, he went with a slightly smaller box so he could apply more power. I am going with the opposite. I will be using all the recommended air space, and maybe a tad bit more as I won't be maxing out the wattage. This allows for a little more down low where I like it, without worrying about bottoming the driver.

Each scenario is unique and should be treated as such. smile.gif

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post #651 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 06:57 PM
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Correctly is all relative. As Gorilla stated, he went with a slightly smaller box so he could apply more power. I am going with the opposite. I will be using all the recommended air space, and maybe a tad bit more as I won't be maxing out the wattage. This allows for a little more down low where I like it, without worrying about bottoming the driver.
Each scenario is unique and should be treated as such. smile.gif

well then im wondering if im using the right volume with mine or not

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post #652 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 07:02 PM
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well then im wondering if im using the right volume with mine or not

I haven't followed your build, have you modeled this in Win Isd?

How much power are you planning on giving them and what are you trying to accomplish?

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post #653 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 07:07 PM
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I haven't followed your build, have you modeled this in Win Isd?
How much power are you planning on giving them and what are you trying to accomplish?

i have a mac, but i see there is an online Winisd. ill play with that.

im using the SI drivers. each dual opposed cab will be on its own ep4000 bridged to 4ohms. Accomplish? world domination!. no. im not sure. something similar to Gorillas results i guess. i put this in my build thread as well so as not to hijack this one.

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post #654 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

i have a mac, but i see there is an online Winisd. ill play with that.
im using the SI drivers. each dual opposed cab will be on its own ep4000 bridged to 4ohms. Accomplish? world domination!. no. im not sure. something similar to Gorillas results i guess. i put this in my build thread as well so as not to hijack this one.

The online Winisd kinda sucks. If you have a Windows ISO, you can download the Oracle VM Virtual box for free then run a Windows VM and install Winisd Pro:
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/virtualbox/downloads/index.html

This is what I did. If you need any help modeling anything, I would be happy to assist as well.
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post #655 of 1010 Old 12-18-2012, 07:35 PM
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took the conversation to my build thread. thanks guys

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post #656 of 1010 Old 12-19-2012, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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We've got woofage!!



Box #4 nearly ready for paint. Edges sanded and filled, grill magnets drilled and set. smile.gif Terminals also soldered and ready to go.




Box #3 is temporarily holding dual SI 18's for prototype testing. Same enclosure size as daytons. Daytons vs. SI coming soon. biggrin.gif


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post #657 of 1010 Old 12-19-2012, 06:00 PM
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Is it easiest to do the roundovers before the box is assembled, or after you assemble it? Man, you are going to do structural damage to your house smile.gif
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post #658 of 1010 Old 12-19-2012, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Is it easiest to do the roundovers before the box is assembled, or after you assemble it? Man, you are going to do structural damage to your house smile.gif

On every box so far I've had to flush trim at least a few sides so I always waited until it was glued to do the roundover. It takes like 8 minutes tops to do all the edges, very easy.
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post #659 of 1010 Old 12-19-2012, 06:25 PM
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On every box so far I've had to flush trim at least a few sides so I always waited until it was glued to do the roundover. It takes like 8 minutes tops to do all the edges, very easy.

Excellent. It seems the easiest too, but the last time I did roundovers was like 10 years ago and I did it before assembly. I like your way smile.gif
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post #660 of 1010 Old 12-19-2012, 06:29 PM
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The Daytons win the sexy good looks part of the competition. Beautiful woofer! Schwing...schwing, schwing! lol. I know, I'm sick and wrong. Luckily, I think I'm not alone here.tongue.gif
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