First DIY project for a guy looking to upgrade - multiple sealed 18s? - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1010 Old 02-19-2013, 07:32 PM
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archea summed it up well. the 3000dsp leaves a little on the table driverwise (not quite enough amp), while the 6000dsp leaves a little on the table amp wise (a little too much for the drivers). the cvx is a good match between 4 drivers and the amp, but doesn't have on board dsp. for an extra hundred the 6000dsp is probably the way to go and use the limiter to protect the drivers.
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post #902 of 1010 Old 02-20-2013, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Order the real deal boards from LG then smile.gif probably not that bad if they ACTUALLY let you have them!!! .

Oh hell no, they will be more than the cost of a 'replacement' Sanway clone, LOL. Not to mention I'm sure there are differences between a real LG board and the Sanway versions.

For the record and clone haters out there: My amp was working 100% until I was moving a sub around, had terminals come loose, and shorted. The amp went into protection mode and has stayed there since, blowing fuses. An expensive lesson learned, but an experience and part of the 'game' nonetheless. tongue.gif

Anyway, every shipping quote I got was way too much for me. I'm ordering a few new boards and a 'backup' FP14000 amp to go with them since I will be paying shipping anyway. smile.gif I've shot a PM to Keager and have access to a few buddies (and family) that are fairly decent with this stuff so I'll enlist their help. Once the amp is fixed I'll have my power source for my ported SI 18 build upstairs. biggrin.gif


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post #903 of 1010 Old 02-20-2013, 10:16 AM
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Thanks for clarifying what happened. I was planning on getting the clone but started to hesitate based on your experience. Knowing that something happened due to shorting is good to know!


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post #904 of 1010 Old 02-20-2013, 11:32 AM
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I buttoned mine back up last night with the fan mod completed. Minus getting used to the soldering gun in my hands again, it was a cake walk. Mine is still trucking right along as well smile.gif

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post #905 of 1010 Old 02-22-2013, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I buttoned mine back up last night with the fan mod completed. Minus getting used to the soldering gun in my hands again, it was a cake walk. Mine is still trucking right along as well smile.gif

Good to hear, Beast! I've got new boards on the way for mine as well as an extra amp. biggrin.gif It was tough shelling out the cash again but in the end I'll hopefully have 2 functioning beasts and some spare parts as well. cool.gif


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post #906 of 1010 Old 02-22-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Good to hear, Beast! I've got new boards on the way for mine as well as an extra amp. biggrin.gif It was tough shelling out the cash again but in the end I'll hopefully have 2 functioning beasts and some spare parts as well. cool.gif

I've been meaning to call you like every day this week to get in on that buy...dammit!

 

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post #907 of 1010 Old 02-22-2013, 12:23 PM
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It was tough shelling out the cash again but in the end I'll hopefully have 2 functioning beasts and some spare parts as well. cool.gif

You know what the definition of insanity is don't you? biggrin.gif

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post #908 of 1010 Old 02-22-2013, 04:51 PM
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. Once the amp is fixed I'll have my power source for my ported SI 18 build upstairs. biggrin.gif

whats this now????????????


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post #909 of 1010 Old 02-23-2013, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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whats this now????????????

I'm thinking I've got these nice SI drivers sitting around, might as well put them to use. I'm sure they would be a fine replacement for the 'Emps.
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You know what the definition of insanity is don't you? biggrin.gif

I think I may need a reminder!!! Or so my wife says. frown.gif


Guys - Since the Clone has been down I've been listening to the Crown bridged on just two subs nearfield. The more I dial it in the better it sounds! I've developed a severe dislike for Audyssey and spent about an hour this morning listening with it disabled. I think I had the volume up to +5 for a straight hour without the slightest sound of distress. IMO it's an enormous improvement. I guess I'm quite fond of the midbass combination these subs and my new mains provide - simply incredible!! I could probably sell the other two subs and leave it just like this and be perfectly happy. But since I already have the other two..... biggrin.gif


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post #910 of 1010 Old 02-23-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

archea summed it up well. the 3000dsp leaves a little on the table driverwise (not quite enough amp), while the 6000dsp leaves a little on the table amp wise (a little too much for the drivers). the cvx is a good match between 4 drivers and the amp, but doesn't have on board dsp. for an extra hundred the 6000dsp is probably the way to go and use the limiter to protect the drivers.

Thanks LTD and Archea!!

Sound advice (pun not intended), as always.

The delta between the 6000 and 3000 is more like $150. Amazon has the 6000 DSP for $500 vs the 3000 DSP for $350. I question if I'll push the subs (2x Dayton 18 HOs) to hit a wall with the 3000, but it may be good peace of mind.

On the limiter, the drivers are rated at 900 watts, but Ricci recommends up to 1500 watts: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=89. So, if I limit to 1,500 watts is that cool or do I need take into consideration the amp might not drive at the "stated" power. I've read threads on the real vs inflated power, so I'm assuming I would take that into consideration when setting the limiter, correct?

Thanks, again
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post #911 of 1010 Old 02-23-2013, 09:21 AM
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Java,
Personally I would lean towards the 6000 for very little up charge. I like more amp vs less, but that is just me. You could run 2 drivers in series at 8 ohms on one channel. That should be around 1500w or so for the 2 drivers and that should be plenty to get them going (750w each). A channel on each might be a bit much without setting some limiter settings. If you try that just be careful with the gain for awhile. Anyway with the 6000 you could add another 2 drivers down the road for the other channel and have a nice 4x18 bass system for very little or switch to some more powerful drivers later on with a 4ohm load and get a bit more power potential.


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post #912 of 1010 Old 02-23-2013, 09:26 AM
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here is a test of the 6000: http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202_page1.html

i would assume the voltage in the limiter is right and not make any adjustment for the fact that the amp markets its peak power ratings vs. its sustainable ratings.

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post #913 of 1010 Old 02-23-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Java,
Personally I would lean towards the 6000 for very little up charge. I like more amp vs less, but that is just me. You could run 2 drivers in series at 8 ohms on one channel. That should be around 1500w or so for the 2 drivers and that should be plenty to get them going (750w each). A channel on each might be a bit much without setting some limiter settings. If you try that just be careful with the gain for awhile. Anyway with the 6000 you could add another 2 drivers down the road for the other channel and have a nice 4x18 bass system for very little or switch to some more powerful drivers later on with a 4ohm load and get a bit more power potential.

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here is a test of the 6000: http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202_page1.html

i would assume the voltage in the limiter is right and not make any adjustment for the fact that the amp markets its peak power ratings vs. its sustainable ratings.

Damn. I may actually start to like these iNuke amps. redface.gif


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post #914 of 1010 Old 02-24-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Java,
Personally I would lean towards the 6000 for very little up charge. I like more amp vs less, but that is just me. You could run 2 drivers in series at 8 ohms on one channel. That should be around 1500w or so for the 2 drivers and that should be plenty to get them going (750w each). A channel on each might be a bit much without setting some limiter settings. If you try that just be careful with the gain for awhile. Anyway with the 6000 you could add another 2 drivers down the road for the other channel and have a nice 4x18 bass system for very little or switch to some more powerful drivers later on with a 4ohm load and get a bit more power potential.

Yep. Sound advice.

Given the low cost of the Dayton HO and Erich's flat packs, 4 subs may be in my future (long term, mind you). Always good to "future proof".

Thanks
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post #915 of 1010 Old 02-24-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

here is a test of the 6000: http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202_page1.html

i would assume the voltage in the limiter is right and not make any adjustment for the fact that the amp markets its peak power ratings vs. its sustainable ratings.

Cool. Thanks, LTD!
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post #916 of 1010 Old 03-13-2013, 07:02 AM
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So based on these comments can 2 of Gorrilla's boxes (4 drivers) be run on the iNuke 6000dsp? If so how would one go about that? My boxes are almost complete. My duratex should be coming in tomorrow for final finishing. Then I will need to sell my SVS PB13 Ultra in order to buy some drivers.


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post #917 of 1010 Old 03-13-2013, 11:38 AM
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i dont think 4 Daytons are a good match with the 6000. the SI D4's would work

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post #918 of 1010 Old 03-13-2013, 11:43 AM
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It would work, one would just have to hook two up into an 8ohm load since the 6k doesn't do 2ohm loads. However, d4's from SI would be even better and that's something I'll be doing. smile.gif


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post #919 of 1010 Old 03-13-2013, 11:44 AM
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hmmm... So with the Daytons I can either use the LG clone or CV5000. I eventually plan on having 4 boxes (8 subs) but that is further down the road. If I did that I know I can use just the one LG clone but would another CV5000 be needed?


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post #920 of 1010 Old 03-13-2013, 11:46 AM
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hmmm... So with the Daytons I can either use the LG clone or CV5000. I eventually plan on having 4 boxes (8 subs) but that is further down the road. If I did that I know I can use just the one LG clone but would another CV5000 be needed?

Lol, guess I posted just as you were. You can use the iNuke 6000 if you want.


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post #921 of 1010 Old 03-14-2013, 09:04 AM
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I am ordering a 14K clone again.
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post #922 of 1010 Old 03-14-2013, 10:00 AM
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Based on the frequency responses on that bench test of the NU6000, I would absolutely not use it for sealed sub duty.

From teslaman over at the speakerplans.com forums (not my image):



It's down 2dB at 10hz, but sloping down sharply. No mention of how it's performing at 5hz, but I suspect it's just like the other end of the curve, -5dB at 5hz, and -8dB at 2.5hz. This is bad if you want the lowest octaves. Why else would you go multiple sealed?

It also looks to add about 1% THD+N at significant drive levels in bass duty. Probably not worth quibbling about, but there are likely better choices for multiple sealed alignments.
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post #923 of 1010 Old 03-15-2013, 08:14 PM
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Based on the frequency responses on that bench test of the NU6000, I would absolutely not use it for sealed sub duty.

From teslaman over at the speakerplans.com forums (not my image):



It's down 2dB at 10hz, but sloping down sharply. No mention of how it's performing at 5hz, but I suspect it's just like the other end of the curve, -5dB at 5hz, and -8dB at 2.5hz. This is bad if you want the lowest octaves. Why else would you go multiple sealed?

It also looks to add about 1% THD+N at significant drive levels in bass duty. Probably not worth quibbling about, but there are likely better choices for multiple sealed alignments.

I agree.

I wish folks would post a loopback of their player, AVR and any other outboard hardware that's in line (like the DCX, MiniDSP, etc.)

I have a loopback of the Onk AVRs, Oppo players and the DCX. If you add the NU amp to that chain, you're down -30dB @ 3 Hz, -14dB @ 5 Hz.

For contrast, using the new [To Be Revealed Soon] into the SEQSS and Clone, the signal chain is down -1dB @ 5 Hz and -5dB @ 3 Hz. That's when you find out what your system is made of, but you need far less displacement because it's all being used relative to the rest of the signal chain.

IOW, say you have 16-18" RS18s. That gives you 50 or so liters of displacement capability, but if you're down -14dB @ 5 Hz, and -30dB @ 3 Hz, your math is destroyed in the model which doesn't reflect that roll off in your modeled L/T and there's no safe way to compensate for it either (at least all of my attempts failed miserably).

My 8x15" Tumult based system gave me just about the same displacement as the 16x18" RS18 system, only it was 10 years ago. I was using an Outlaw pre/pro into a Marchand Bassis powered by QSC amps. I was only down -4dB @ 5 Hz and -15dB at 3 Hz and the roll off was exactly reflected in all of my posted in-room FR graphs and later in my SpecLab caps of mic'd movie scenes.

The new roll off caused a redesign of SEQSS, drivers, enclosures and power plant, but what a ride. I can best most any LMS-based system below 10 Hz using lowly 15s simply because the LMS drivers just aren't getting the signal.

Since I have 100s of SL caps for comparison, the proof, as always, will be in the pudding for anyone who cares to see.

I'm prepared for the majority to ignore it all and argue ad nauseum against the facts of the matter as SOP around here. What a shame. The recent spate of mega builds could be ramped up quite a few notches on the Holy S@%# scale.

Nice to see ya posting, Nube. Wish you'd bump your build thread with pics of how it ended up. cool.gif
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post #924 of 1010 Old 03-15-2013, 09:04 PM
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Yes? No?

I need to buy another FP14k so I can skip my junction box.

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post #925 of 1010 Old 03-21-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I agree.

I wish folks would post a loopback of their player, AVR and any other outboard hardware that's in line (like the DCX, MiniDSP, etc.)

I have a loopback of the Onk AVRs, Oppo players and the DCX. If you add the NU amp to that chain, you're down -30dB @ 3 Hz, -14dB @ 5 Hz.
I don't understand why more people, while jumping on the multiple (overkill) sealed bandwagon, don't make this their top priority after driver selection. If reproducing as close to DC @ reference is the pursuit, I can think of NOTHING more important than knowing your signal chain rolloff. If it's bad, you absolutely should either invest in new equipment, or give up the ghost on that pipe dream.
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Nice to see ya posting, Nube. Wish you'd bump your build thread with pics of how it ended up. cool.gif
Likewise, bosso. smile.gif It's been awhile. I'll bump that thread with finished shots as soon as I get the tops squared away. I just took the first comprehensive exam for my PhD yesterday, and that's been the thrust of my focus this year so far. Now I have a little free time and, with summer coming up, I'll have some stuff to post about. (Assuming I'm not spending the summer in Mexico again...too hot!)

I really hope your new endeavors are shaping up and shipping out! I'm curious to see (and hear!) how it all turns out. If you ever need a guinea pig... wink.gif
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Yes? No?

I need to buy another FP14k so I can skip my junction box.
Another stranger! Welcome back, HO.

I think another FP14k is absolutely necessary if you can afford to take another chance. On second thought, you haven't had the best luck with audio purchases from non-US suppliers...so maybe not!


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post #926 of 1010 Old 03-21-2013, 04:19 PM
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I don't understand why more people, while jumping on the multiple (overkill) sealed bandwagon, don't make this their top priority after driver selection. If reproducing as close to DC @ reference is the pursuit, I can think of NOTHING more important than knowing your signal chain rolloff. If it's bad, you absolutely should either invest in new equipment, or give up the ghost on that pipe dream.

I'll speak for my situation cuz I'm going to have a crazy huge sealed system...

In my case, I'm severly limited on funds. That and I don't feel comfortable purchasing an amp like the clones which have fantastic low end capability. Also, I will have a DCX in the chain (which has some rolloff below 10hz) and it's functions are more important to me than <5hz extension. As much as I desire it. I have to place my priorities. I could wait forever and never finish this huge project that has taken up about three years of my life and save enen longer to get the clones or something better than the DCX. (I don't know of any that do what I want, maybe the MDSP) So I have to deal with the lack of flatness <10hz for a while. It's not like I can't upgrade later in my life.


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post #927 of 1010 Old 03-21-2013, 04:23 PM
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See, Scott, in your exact situation I see absolutely no reason to upgrade. You already have prodigious output to 10hz. If you're not concerned with output <10hz, why change?


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post #928 of 1010 Old 03-21-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post

See, Scott, in your exact situation I see absolutely no reason to upgrade. You already have prodigious output to 10hz. If you're not concerned with output <10hz, why change?

More output, smaller package(s). biggrin.gif

No high pass no matter how hard I push the new gear, built-in capability for <10hz.

And yes.... I very much desire <10hz capability but just because it have rolloff 10hz and below doesn't mean I won't have any. A quick swap out of an amp and bamo! 5hz extension.


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post #929 of 1010 Old 03-22-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

More output, smaller package(s). biggrin.gif

No high pass no matter how hard I push the new gear, built-in capability for <10hz.

And yes.... I very much desire <10hz capability but just because it have rolloff 10hz and below doesn't mean I won't have any. A quick swap out of an amp and bamo! 5hz extension.

Send me the cash for the clone and I'll order us each one.

#maybe

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post #930 of 1010 Old 03-22-2013, 08:50 PM
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Do I hear Clone group buy? biggrin.gif

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